RTR for 8th...need support here

[Yaya68]

Are there any folks using RTR with an 8th grader? DS is 14yo. We were a late Kinder start-by choice. DS is NOT wanting to do RTR and I soooo want him to do it! We did Preparing, CTC, and now it only seems logical, to this mama, that we continue on this course. He, however, wants to bail on HOD and switch to Sonlight core 100 (which 10th gr DS just finished). I, personally, just find HOD to be richer in many ways, so the choice is to stay with HOD for my 6 & 8 yo DSs, but 17 yo DS will continue SL til graduation.

If I insist 14yo DS stays with HOD, I don't want every day to be a struggle. I want him to look forward to school and reading...which he LOVES. One of DS issues with HOD is that the history activities are boring and they don't always work out the way they are intended. I think he just doesn't even try, so he sets himself up for failure and disappointment. Having said that though...the activities are geared for younger children, so I can see his frustration. When I asked him if he liked anything about HOD...he said nothing positive and that breaks my heart cuz I want to stick with this awesome program, but then I wonder if it is worth the struggle.

This is the path we would take. Please give me your honest opinion..and mostly is there anyone out there in HODland that is currently on this path?

RTR 2012/13 for 8th grade...14 yo
Rev2Rev 2013/14 for 9th grade...15 yo
MTMM 2014/15 for 10th grade...16yo
Then whatever else Carrie has up her sleeve....

If we stayed on course, I would always be using HOD with extensions for DS. That is something I am questioning whether it is right. I mean I know the program allows for that, but should I do it? Will DS always feel below grade level...and, admittedly, that can be a lot to ask of a teen boy. Should I forget about RTR & Rev2Rev and jump to MTMM...and hope that is enough "compromise" with DS. I know that I can beef it up for him should we choose to stay on the path above, but what does beefing up really look like in practical terms? When we did CTC I bought the extra readers and DITHOR (but that program didn't seem to click in my weary brain and just added to the many books being juggled). I'm sure I failed to grasp the whole intension and process of DITHOR. If I were to try it...I would need someone to guide me through it. I ask myself just how much do I want to add, tweak, beef up.? So, skipping over RTR & Rev2Rev might be the wisest decision. At least then DS is working at age and grade level. I just feel sad that we will miss out on so much if we skip.

Ok, I know that was a lot and I'm sorry if some things were unclear. My head is spinning. I would so appreciate any advice you can offer.

Blessings,

[LynnH]

Where does he place on the placement chart? Was CTC really easy for him. If he places in MTMM and it would mean you would get to stick with HOD for him then I would probably do that. I think my temptation though would be to only skip RTR and start with Rev to Rev so he gets the full American History plus all the other things that are in that guide. We just started Rev to Rev today with my 13 year old and I can tell the workload will be a step up from RTR. Also the history projects for the most part have a much older feel. The first week is an Indian head dress, so that may seem young, but the rest of them seem older than RTR.

[Yaya68]

Here's how DS placed...

Reading: MTMM
writing: CTC
Grammar: CTC/RTR
Math: MTMM
Bible: Rev2Rev/MTMM
History: RTR/Rev2Rev
Science: Rev2Rev
Story time: Rev2Rev/MTMM
Poetry: Has no interest or desire in this area so it was hard to decide where he places. He will copy poetry, but that's as far as he'd go.

Looks like RTR is really out of the running for the most part. If we skip over to Rev2Rev or MTMM, what do I do to bring him up to speed in writing and grammar?

Thanks,

[LynnH]

Looking at that I would not skip ahead to MTMM, the writing requirements are rigorous. He could probably do Rev to Rev. As far as grammar and writing go what level of Rod and Staff is he in? Or if he hasn't done Rod and Staff what has he done with Preparing and CTC? How did he do with the CTC writing program and the written narrations? In Rev to Rev the history written narrations are 10-14 sentences long. There are also written narrations with Science. Do you think he is close to being able to do that or would he be able to do it by half way through the year? The writing program in Rev to Rev at first glance doesn't look to be as step by step as the one in RTR. The one in RTR really pushed my ds to become a better writer and I feel it prepared him for the writing in Rev to Rev, at least that is what I am hoping. You only do the writing program 1 day a week in Rev to Rev. The science in Rev to Rev might be something that would excite your ds. I know mine couldn't wait to do that today and the fact that he was able to start building his racer on the first day of school was a highlight. Hopefully Carrie or Julie will pop on and give you more advice as far as the writing and grammar go.

[Yaya68]

DS used Growing with Grammar...not RS, though we did give it a shot. He found RS to be dry and uninteresting. GWG is simple, to the point, no fuss, no muss...however, I think that it is not challenging enough. I needed something that I could hand DS and know that he could do it. As far as writing program...he floundered. Started off so-so and then just fizzled. We had a pretty hectic yr with speech and debate, traveling to tournaments, etc., it just became easier to do what we could do and sadly leave the rest.

[Yaya68]

Forgot to say...yes, I think given the right motivation...DS could do the writing. He can devour books like there's no tomorrow, but writing.... he'd rather not. My plan was to used IEW, which we have done very loosely in the yrs past.

Thanks,

[Joyfulmomma]

My daughter is 13 (will be 14 in December) and is using RtoR beefed up for 9th grade. She loves RtoR. She placed in between Rev2Rev and MMtoM but chose RtoR because she liked the looks of the package. She does find the science projects and history projects to be too young but still enjoys doing them. She loves the extension books and the Short Lessons in Art History that Carrie recommends for older students using the guide. Perhaps your son would like it better with the beefed up options. I don't know anything about Sonlight 100. Does it use similar books? Different time period? We are planning on skipping Rev to Rev and going into MMtoM after she is finished RtoR so it is possible to skip a guide. How are your sons written narrations? From looking at the sample week of the MMtoM, it seems the kids are expected to do more and longer narrations. What exactly does your son not like about the RtoR?
Sorry if this isn't much help. Just wanted to encourage you that kids your sons age generally do well with RtoR.

[Yaya68]

When you say beefed up...what does that look like? Sorry if this is a duh question, but I'm just not sure. can u Plz give me real examples using RTR.?.

DS does like the readers...he just would rather read all day and not have to answer written Qs, or write, or whatever. If I asked him to tell me what he read...he would gladly divulge the whole book, but that means hat i would have to preread everything so i know that he is correct. I simply do nit have that time. Im schooling 1 older than DS and 2 younger.

Maybe it's a discipline issue I am dealing with? He is 14 and questions EVERYTHING! From experience with 2 older boys...this is "normal". I don't tolerate disrespect, so I know he doesn't try to be disobedient in that regard. He just wants it the way he wants it and sees the necessity of school work through his eyes and perception. I know how that sounds and he sounds lazy and like he needs a swift kick in the rear, but truly he is a "good boy" with a thirst for life and more importantly a thirst for God. Anyway, DH and I have agreed that Ds will not be given a choice...to a certain point. DS does know that. I just want our life to be w/o daily conflict...and since we are already on that note...and school hasn't begun yet...am I nailing my own coffin?

So, if I were shown how to beef up his work so that he feels like he is not doing below grade level work and if I cut out the elementary activities, do you think that DS could do RTR or Rev2Rev and really love it?

Thx,

[8arrows]

My daughter is using REV2REV for 9th grade with extensions and some beefing up. For literature, we are using the first half of the 11th grade BJU literature book because it covers early American literature. She is also reading classics such as The Scarlet Letter, Uncle Tom's Cabin, etc. She is using Easy Grammar 9 and finishing up her CLE 8 light units for the grammar part of a English credit. For government we added The 5,000 Year Leap and I am reading through Painless Government with my middle three. This is our first week, but I like it better than what I used for my older two boys. She is also using IEW C continuation with her older brother instead of the assigned writing. You would not need to beef up for high school if you are going to use REV2REV for this year though since your child is only in 8th. However, this may give you an idea for the future.

[Joyfulmomma]

For 9th grade with RtoR my daughter is using Rod and Staff English 7, Short Lessons in Art History, Write with the Best (because this is our first year with HOD she didn't use it in CtoC,) Greek I, French 2, Milestones in Science, Unwrapping the Pharoahs with lapbook project, Ancient World by Susan Wise Bauer, and selected higher level literature (Ivanhoe, The Once and Future King, The Black Arrow and a few others.) We find her days are very full taking her about 5 to 6 hours but she's enjoying it. I don't have to force her to do anything...well besides math LOL. I have 5 others to teach so she is almost entirely independent. I listen to her narrations, do the Bible discussions in Beautiful Girlhood, and correct English and Math, and generally check over her work at a "meeting time" in the afternoon after I'm done with all the others. If your son likes science I highly recommend the Milestones in Science as a fun Friday extra. Also check out the stickie on beefing up RtoR for highschool. Carrie has great recommendations.

[Carrie]

Sonya,

The ladies are doing a great job of helping you talk through possible options! I am always amazed by the wealth of knowledge and guidance that the ladies offer on the HOD board! What a blessing to have so many generous moms willing to give of their time to help one another.

I am busily finishing the final editing of MTMM right now but have a few minutes that I will pop-in to offer my thoughts too. From what you've shared so far, it appears that there are several different issues coming into play with what you are seeing in your son. One issue is that while he loves to read, it seems that this is the only thing that he desires to do as far as his current school day goes without added encouragement or help from you. It is truly wonderful that he loves to read! However, there is so much more to being well-educated than reading. This is where the struggle is coming into your day.

If your older son is doing Sonlight, it is possible that your next son in line perceives that your older son is primarily reading for most of his school-day while your next son in line feels like he is being required to "do" so much more writing and other types of work as part of his school-day. I share this because my older son did Sonlight for several years, albeit the younger years of his schooling, but it was true that Sonlight mainly focused on reading at those levels with very little writing and very little required in the way of follow-up work. This may not be as true in Sonlight's upper levels, however Sonlight does focus on reading as the source of almost all learning at many levels.

With this in mind, if your next son in line prefers reading, then it is no surprise why Sonlight looks attractive to him. In looking at your second son's needs, however it is important to consider that a switch to Sonlight would cater to your second son's strengths, but it would also leave his areas of weakness still weak. From what you've shared so far, I perceive his weakest areas to be anything written, grammar, and any follow-ups that may not fit within the realm of reading.

This leads us to the second issue which is in the areas of written work, grammar, following directions, and working independently on tasks outside of reading on anything he may not love. While kiddos often balk in these areas, they are also important areas to have firmly in place prior to high school. With his age in mind, we want to move him forward in these areas.

In looking at the placements you've shared, while you could bump him up to RTR, Rev2Rev, or MTMM in the reading area, what then happens to the other areas in which he is weak? From what you've graciously shared so far, it would appear he has not exhibited the skills needed to move up to the other guides. I'm concerned that if he does not possess the needed skills in narrating, written narrations, DITHR, harder grammar like Rod and Staff, and following lengthy written directions that he will flounder in the higher level HOD guides.

One thing that is necessary to do at this point is to truly take stock as to how much of CTC he really did on a daily basis and which parts he actually completed. If he perhaps was hit and miss with parts of the guide and didn't really do other parts, it is likely that a jump forward in the guides would result in more skipping of parts he is not prepared to do. From looking at the placements that you've shared, I would say that he fits well in RTR. RTR is a step up from CTC in all ways. It schedules Medieval-History Based Writing Lessons from IEW, which I think is a very needed part of your son's day. He also needs to be doing DITHR Level 6/7/8, or another literature program, as there is much more to literature study than simply reading difficult books. Grammar is another area that he will need a strong dose of before high school. Growing with Grammar covers only the grammar portion and leaves out many other needed language arts skills, so I would look in another direction in that area. He will need a full-fledged English program similar to Rod and Staff.

Doing oral and written narrations and following the skills in the guide is another need prior to high school. This is the skill being built in doing all parts of the guide. If my sons do not do a project well, they redo it. They soon learn to try their best the first time around. When a project does not work out as expected, this too is a learning experience, just as when we miss an ingredient in a recipe!

Along with RTR, I would lean toward either doing the science from Rev2Rev instead, or choosing one of the options for beefing up the science in RTR.

If you did ponder skipping ahead to Rev2Rev, you would want to make sure to require your son to do all that is within Rev2Rev without any skipping, as each part of the guide has its purpose in preparing a child for the next guide in line.

I wouldn't advise going all of the way up to MTMM, as the grammar, writing, narrating, and notebooking alone would be overwhelming. At that point, MTMM would just become a reading program for your son, and he would miss all of the rest that was needed.

Only you can know your child best, and know what will suit him best for the future. Preparing for high school is an important part of 8th grade, and with your son's age in mind, you'd definitely want to focus on his weak areas this year and spend time one-on-one helping him to succeed in these key areas. Areas of strength are already strong, so refocusing on the weak areas and doing what is needed in those would be my recommendation.

Blessings,
Carrie

[Yaya68]

Infinite thanks Carrie. You said exactly what I was thinking, yet could not verbalize.

Blessings,

[Yaya68]

Along with RTR, I would lean toward either doing the science from Rev2Rev instead, or choosing one of the options for beefing up the science in RTR.

How would I beef up RTR science? What would that look like?

If I choose to go with Rev2Rev science, then wouldn't I always be running a guide ahead for science? I'd always have to tweak cor the future grades/guides, right?

Thoughts anyone?

Thanks,

[Joyfulmomma]

Hi Sonya,
I think you are right in that if you use Rev to Rev science with R to R you would then have to substitute another science next year when you get to Rev to Rev. You could do the Rev to Rev physical science now and use a Biology program such as ACE or Apologia with MMtoM as Biology is typically studied in 9th or use another science altogether this year such as Apologia General Science. Is there a particular area of science your son would like to study, perhaps something that would give him something to look forward to and motivate him to get through the grammar/written work a little more eagerly? I found with my son (now 17) having a special subject that especially piqued his own interests motivated him to get done with his "chore" subjects (read math) LOL

[Yaya68]

Thanks Pam for your comments. There is a Gen Sci co-op that is being started in my HS support grp. I am considering enrolling ds. I think that being with other students will motivate him...at least that is my hope. I will do what u suggested for Biology.

Thank you!