I really need help! LHTH or LHFHG?

[edsnyder]

This is completely my opinion and it may not be worth much - but if your dc places in LHFHG then that is where I would put here - the listening on the History is mainly Bible stories - you could read it a couple different times throughout the day or just talk about it later, the story time books were hard for my ds who was about the same age when we used it maybe a tad bit younger - we stopped in May on Unit 29 it was very frustrating for me because his listening skills were very lacking but the programs build on each other so when starting the guide they are not supposed to have already mastered everything some things will not even be mastered by the end of the guide some things will only be introduced to the child that will be continued through future guides - I hope that makes sense and helps!

[mom23]

I think listening comprehension is one of the skills that LHFHG works to develop. Like pp said it's perfectly okay that she hasn't mastered that at the start of the guide. I'd continue half pace. Maybe read History one day and Burgess the next day.

[mommybelle]

Awhile ago on this forum I think I had read that LHFHG is meant to assist with reading comprehension...that children may struggle at first, but they will start to put stuff together as you progress. I don't see anything wrong with going half-speed for a 5.5 yo though. Could you maybe make some felt figures or puppets to illustrate the characters as you read? I've seen something on here where people will print out pictures of the characters to help the child understand the story. You could even go half-speed and play with the stuffed animals and/or puppets together and make them talk and such and basically act out each story individually. See Unit 4, Day 2 Storytime as an example. My daughter LOVED this activity!

Maybe slow down a little on the reading lessons and focus more on reading comprehension. I am just thinking that if she is having a hard time understanding the chapter books you read, she may have a hard time comprehending what she is reading herself. Though you know your child best so you can tell whether or not she can explain what she just read in The Reading Lesson stories.

I started my 5 yo with LHTH last year, and I know I could have probably gone with LHFHG. However, I do feel that it was the right decision as I feel she is getting so much more out of it at her age now (she'll be 6 in October).

Another option...what if you continued with LHTH until she's 6 (even if you don't complete it), and then work in some chapter books along the way? LHFHG is really building a foundation for narration. And according to Charlotte Mason, a child shouldn't be expected to narrate until 6 yo. Some may actually consider the activities in LHFHG narration? And I do think some kids are completely ready for this at 5 yo while others probably need more time.

The first chapter book I read to my daughter was Charlotte's Web. I honestly didn't think she was getting anything out of the story, but I realized later that she did understand more than I thought, and I think it greatly improved her reading comprehension. I think Charlotte's Web is a great one (though I think that one is used later in HOD). Also, the original Raggedy Ann and Raggedy Andy stories by Johnny Gruelle are perfect for a little girl! And maybe Milly-Molly-Mandy (though I haven't read that one myself). Or maybe even the Magic Tree House series books? We would read a chapter every day from a chapter book when she was younger, and I really think it had an impact on her reading comprehension.

She does sound advanced with math though, so I don't think I'd hold her back there if she is ready. The only downside is you'll always be a year ahead with the guides until the hands-on activities for math go away in the later guides.

That probably isn't much help as I'm just throwing out suggestions. I do think if it were me, I would probably do LHTH with some math and fine motor skills worked in and then focus on reading a chapter a day from a great chapter book to improve her reading comprehension skills. I know how you feel though as it drives me bonkers if I don't think my child is getting a concept. But I do have to remind myself that we are just building a foundation in these early years to develop these skills later.

And also, LHTH actually does have a good bit of history. It just builds the foundation for the Biblical history in the first 17 weeks (?) of LHFHG. So, you would be covering this history in more detail in LHFHG.

[raindrops]

That is so much tweaking! No wonder you're frustrated.

So your two main issues are reading comprehension and what to do with your young son. ?

I think... I would try LHFHG half speed (again) because she seemed to be thriving on it and your son was able to handle the shorter amount of time "alone". And then, if he "allows" add in a little something later in the day with your 5.5 daughter. What sort of thing is she into? Say she loves horses, then read a few pages out of a horse chapter book.

My son loooooooves Reddy Fox and I always ask, "hmmm... no bookmark... oh where were we. Do you remember what happened yesterday?" And then he tells me, in great enthusiastic detail, what went on last chapter. With his help I am then able to "find" where we left off. Hahaha. Sly as a fox.

But if you can find a book that totally "does it" for your lil' miss, she might pay better attention. My son just happens to love foxes and possums and all that. I'd still read the burgess to her, at half speed... but then her favorite book every day.

How does she do with the devotions book?

[mommybelle]

Oh I hope I didn't confuse you more! I tend to give more info than needed sometimes. I'm sorry!

I looked at the placement chart to see where "storytime" and "history" fall, and they are at the bottom of the list in determining placement. So I think these boxes are used to prepare the child for future guides by improving on these areas. Honestly, I sometimes have to reread some sentences in Reddy Fox myself because I breezed over it without really listening to what I was reading, so I can see how this may be difficult for a 5 and 6 yo and even 7 yo.

If you were thinking LHTH with other curricula mixed in, I think I would just give LHFHG another try. And maybe go half speed and if she wants more, just grab some good quality Charlotte Mason style books from the library (even shorter reads). There are A LOT of great books out there! And you can even read those at bedtime.

Sometimes I think my dd isn't getting the history or science lesson and then she mentions something to someone else or at a later time, and I realize then that she was in fact understanding more than I thought she was. We are just building the foundation at this age. It is amazing what changes take place over even 6 months in a 5 yo.

And I think you were the one who mentioned that your daughter asked "Who is Moses?" after a lesson. Honestly, as an adult, if the Bible story isn't completely fresh on my mind, I myself confuse some of the people in the Bible so I can completely see how young children would mix these characters up. I think I have Adam and Eve down (and that may be about it)! If she likes to draw, maybe have her draw the characters from the Bible and Reddy Fox with something to help her remember them?

And just pray about it. He will certainly direct your paths! I will keep you in my prayers as well!

[mommybelle]

As I'm thinking about this I'm wondering if she's being passive aggressive? She is very smart and with it. She is in our business all the time and constantly listening and observing. She wants to do school, but when I get out the Bible or reddy fox from LHFHG (or LHTH bile today) she's done. but then she asks to keep reading reddy fox and doesn't want to stop at the end of a chapter sometimes?

Do you try to school all in one sitting or are you breaking up the lessons? That is interesting that she is actually asking for you to keep reading. It is obviously capturing her attention if she asks you to keep reading. If you aren't breaking up the lessons, try to go no longer than 30 minutes.

I tried something today that seemed to hold my daughter's attention longer. We used Lucky Charms for our math lesson on greater than and less than. When we were finished with the hands-on approach, I gave her a special treat of a bowl of Lucky Charms for her afternoon snack. She's been begging for Lucky Charms all week! While she ate her Lucky Charms, I read Reddy Fox to her. This kept her still and attentive. As much as she loves Reddy Fox, she has a very difficult time sitting still for any storytime, history or science lesson. And this is very odd to me as this is my child that could sit in my lap for an hour and read books non-stop at the age of 2 and 3. So I am thinking these 5-6 yos just need to move around a whole lot more and explore their world.

So, long story short, maybe you could break the lessons up into shorter lessons throughout the day?

[mommybelle]

Maybe I am doing too much at once. I haven't looked at the clock but I'll do that and see what happens. Also, she can sit and read with me all day. It's history textbook, devotional, sometimes bible, and storytime that she goes to la-la land.
I like the felt character idea, so maybe we'll make some felt props tomorrow (or stuffed animals that are the characters).
And maybe I'm making too big of a deal for a 5 year old to remember that Isaac was Abraham's son...and Moses was the bay in the basket found by a PRINCESS!, haha! I mean c'mon! Shouldn't a 5 year old remember every tiny detail??

She is sounding a lot like my daughter here. If we are reading fiction and storybooks, she has a MUCH greater attention span. She's just not used to the history textbook and science textbook as it isn't fiction. I would definitely try limiting each box to 10-15 minutes max and keep total lessons in one sitting to no longer than 30 minutes. Carrie just recently wrote a Facebook post suggesting this for LHFHG. And if she's in la-la land for the history, devotional and storytime, don't lump those all in one sitting. Mix those up around the activities that she does enjoy throughout the day.

That is funny regarding your comment on the princess. I hadn't even thought about that as every little girl loves the princesses. But who is Moses again? We were talking about a princess mom!

[raindrops]

I tried something today that seemed to hold my daughter's attention longer. We used Lucky Charms for our math lesson on greater than and less than. When we were finished with the hands-on approach, I gave her a special treat of a bowl of Lucky Charms for her afternoon snack. She's been begging for Lucky Charms all week! While she ate her Lucky Charms, I read Reddy Fox to her. This kept her still and attentive. As much as she loves Reddy Fox, she has a very difficult time sitting still for any storytime, history or science lesson. And this is very odd to me as this is my child that could sit in my lap for an hour and read books non-stop at the age of 2 and 3. So I am thinking these 5-6 yos just need to move around a whole lot more and explore their world.

So, long story short, maybe you could break the lessons up into shorter lessons throughout the day?

Oh you reminded me of something I read here on the forums. Someone else mentioned that it made a huge difference just to hold the child on the lap and periodically touch their arm or cheek while they read to child.

And like mommybelle said, letting them eat a snack while you read can help.

Aaaaaaand, for the mommy..! Try to stay positive. If you do lose your patience then apologize. My son is sensitive and if I for even a moment act frustrated with his schooling it will takes weeks to undo the damage that my tongue did in a split second. For example, a year ago we were doing some workbooks on the couch when his one year old sister woke up. Up to that point we were having fun and snuggling and enjoying life. Well. When the 1 year old came in I told him to sit beside me and I would nurse her and he could finish his work. Big mistake! Bad idea! Then I TOLD him to sit down. He didn't want to. He wanted to be on my lap still. Then I got mad that he was "disobeying" and he didn't want to do school EVER again until we started HOD.

So I have tried to watch myself and be very tuned in to him. If we need to take a break we do. I won't plow through and frustrate him.

This age can be delicate! Heh.

So I vote for putting her on your lap and giving her a treat. Stop during the story if you need to and explain something or want to comment. We keep it real relaxed (now). LOL

Oh, do you have a fox toy or anything like that she could hold?

[mommybelle]

Aaaaaaand, for the mommy..! Try to stay positive. If you do lose your patience then apologize. My son is sensitive and if I for even a moment act frustrated with his schooling it will takes weeks to undo the damage that my tongue did in a split second. For example, a year ago we were doing some workbooks on the couch when his one year old sister woke up. Up to that point we were having fun and snuggling and enjoying life. Well. When the 1 year old came in I told him to sit beside me and I would nurse her and he could finish his work. Big mistake! Bad idea! Then I TOLD him to sit down. He didn't want to. He wanted to be on my lap still. Then I got mad that he was "disobeying" and he didn't want to do school EVER again until we started HOD.

raindrops...thanks for this reminder! I do get frustrated myself with my 5 yo when we are doing school, and then I wonder why she resists some of the activities sometimes. This is very humbling as I see that it is actually me that needs to change my attitude instead of expecting as much from her.

BGBC - Just hoping your day went a little smoother with your dd!

[raindrops]

I got both the LHTH devotional books for my little girl, to use when she is 3 and then the other book when she is 4... I agree, they ARE very good! And there are things to search for in the big pictures.

Glad you found a solotion! Children change so fast. Who knows where she'll "be" in comprehension in a year. Maybe the ABC books will help in that area too.

There is a thread active now about a child in the upper age area of RTR that complains the activities are too "babyish"... just something else to consider. I know you mentioned something about age and guide.

Anyways. Hope I am not sounding pushy. Eee! It does sound like you have found a good fit for now though.

My goal for this K year is to 1, get my son to loooove learning and 2, for me not to "take over" his projects. Hehe.

So I think as long as you find where you guys are comfortable and learning is fun and not stressful, then it has been a sucessful K year.

[mommybelle]

It sounds like you are feeling at peace with your direction now! I am so glad! Now you can just go enjoy your first year of homeschooling! And know that you weren't alone trying to figure out placement...it took me a good year to figure everything out!

Since you mentioned you were doing LHTH and that you really like The ABC Bible Verses (my dd still loves that book), check out these links. You may enjoy some of these activities for LHTH. I just wish I had gotten around to actually doing LHTH last year because I would have definitely done some of these activities. We did use the pages with the Bible verses to go along with The ABC Bible Verses though, and my dd loved them! Though LHTH is completely sufficient without these...I just thought they were fun (especially for little girls)!
Links removed per board rules by board moderator.

God Bless!

[agstefko]

I just wanted to encourage you about your decision. With my 1st I had to step back his K year because he wasn't quite able to handle reading the longer books. Spending time reading longer picture books helped and after getting use to those he was able after a few months to go back to where we were. It is amazing how quickly kids can mature in just the matter of months

[my3sons]

It sounds like you are enjoying the parts of LHTH you are doing. The character lessons in ABC Bible verses are wonderful, aren't they? The BIble and hands-on activities are priceless. It is such a blessing to have the opportunity to be able to open our dc's hearts to the Lord through LHTH!

As I was reading through this thread, I realized you had mentioned LHTH being too babyish, but LHFHG was too difficult, and then also you had mentioned skipping LHFHG next year. My head is spinning too! It is so tough as mamas to try to figure out what each of our little ones need, isn't it? I applaud you for taking real time to think and ponder this. It is far too easy to just slot our dc into a program based on age, and you are really taking the time to think this through, which is great! As I was thinking through this thread, and thinking through our dc's progression through the guides, I felt moved to share that the leaps and gains a child would need to make to go from LHTH to Beyond would be absolutely MASSIVE! This is fresh in my mind as I've had my oldest move through the guides through RevtoRev, my middle through PHFHG, and my little guy in LHFHG. I seem to always have a little one while also having the olders, though sadly this will change as Emmett is my last sweetie. So, that step-by-step progression of skills and maturity that runs through the guides from year to year is fresh in my mind and running through my head as I read this post.

For this purpose, I will try to explain this thinking. The history reading alouds in Beyond are of the third grade level. This is intentional, as read alouds should be above a dc's reading ability to stretch them. The history readings follow a continuum of increase in difficulty through the guides. LHFHG's readings are the stepping stone between LHTH's younger Bible history readings, and Beyond's older history readings. The content of the history readings increase in maturity level as well throughout the years. So in LHTH, the readings begin with Bible history, which the dc are hopefully somewhat familiar with. LHFHG is a one year sweep of history, from Creation to the 1970's. It begins with Bible history and moves on throughout the rest of history to present day. LHFHG acts as a landscape for Beyond's American history to be placed within. As Charlotte Mason would say, LHFHG gives dc the place "hooks" can be hung upon from Beyond, and of course BHFHG adds more hooks, etc., but all within that first foundational backdrop of a fairly good understanding of Biblical history and a beginning understanding of history as a whole thanks to LHFHG.

Likewise, skills build upon one another incrementally from guide to guide. LHFHG is the bridge between LHTH and Beyond in writing skills, reading skills, math skills, etc. It also is the bridge in other skills such as length of school day, length of subjects within that school day, depth of discussion questions and activities, comprehension of rhymes to classical poetry, etc. Beyond increases in difficulty in all of these important areas. Even if by some amazing feat your dd was able to move from LHTH to Beyond, there is absolutely no way that she would be able to move to Bigger Hearts the year after. The writing alone would be massive. In a past thread, Carrie had this to say in regard to this topic...

As far as choosing between "Beyond.." and "Bigger..." goes, the amount of writing varies quite a bit between Beyond and Bigger. Bigger requires more writing in the areas of a once a week history notebooking assignment, a once a week science experiment sheet and a once a week science notebooking entry, along with once a week copywork of a Bible verse, 1-3 vocabulary cards each week, cursive handwriting practice daily, and daily grammar instruction with written practice. It also provides a choice of spelling or dictation passages. If your little one sounds like that would be fine for her, she belongs in Bigger. If not, then Beyond would be best. Beyond has much less writing doing copywork daily from the poetry, using a gentle once a week introduction to grammar, and writing daily for very short spelling lessons.

Your dd at 6.5 could easily do LHFHG, adding in any LA/math from Beyond if it was needed. The target age range for LHFHG is ages 5-7 yo, so this would be a very appropriate placement for her. I wanted to mention this as if you wanted to be able to do Beyond next year, doing LHFHG now, even half-speed would be the best option for this plan. If you are adding things from LHFHG and only doing a portion of LHTH anyway, perhaps half-speed LHFHG would work given some time and work on skills. Otherwise, doing LHTH (and all of LHTH would help the most ) with a few things from LHFHG will best prepare a child for doing LHFHG the next year. I hope something here can help as you look at placement now and for the future! Prayer is always the best help in placement, so keep that up, and you will know!

In Christ,
Julie

[raindrops]

LOL! Not crazy- just doing what works. Crazy, so they say, is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results.

My son wasn't so interested in the beginning of the history book either. The abstractness of trying to understand "eternity" is difficult. Even adults struggle. I think once we get really into the stories it'l be easier to follow.

I just found on you tube that there are a ton of "animated" bible stories. So after reading the story sceduled in HOD, I will let him watch the movie. He gets soooo excited because he gets to SEE what he heard about. "Aaah! The burning bush!! I know about that!" But he definitely has to do the listening first, because the point is reading comprehension. But the movies help it "come alive" for him so he is really "getting into" his history. Plus he doesn't get irritated with me when I pause it and explain how they're making the bricks, etc., so that's cool.

[my3sons]

Oh no, not crazy! Just a mom who loves her kiddos!
In Christ,
Julie