Half speed except for English and Math in RtR???

[flydena]

This is my first year using HOD, and I love it! I have one in LHTH, one in Preparing and one in RtR. We are using the guides mostly as written. I do use a different math, but that is about it. I am struggling with my 8th grader who is in RtR. He is VERY CAPABLE of the work, but does not like it, is unmotivated to complete it, and I am really struggling with him not doing his best nor applying what he is learning. I know it's mostly a character problem, and I have prayed about it A LOT. I feel like HOD is the right program, and that the Lord led me to it. However, I don't feel like my son is getting from it what he should be. He HATES to write! Whether it's written narrations or IEW. And, he is not doing well with any of it, though I know he is capable. Sometimes I think he is more of the cut and dry type that NEEDS to see a grade to realize his progress. I'm not sure if that makes sense. But, if he takes a test and sees that he made an A, it gets him excited and he feels like he's accomplished something. I'm not sure how to do that, really, with HOD. I do grade his math, and with R&S, I give him "grades" on the quizzes and review sections. He likes to know that he is doing well. IEW is challenging, but we have used it in the past, so he was familiar with how it worked. He CAN do it, and he can do it pretty well, but it takes work and he doesn't want to put forth the effort. We do use DITHOR also. He loves the books so far for DITHOR, but any writing involved he doesn't care for at all. I wish I'd have found HOD sooner, so that the earlier guide's skills could have better prepared him, but I do believe he is very capable, just does not like or want to do the work. We even did notebooking before HOD. He really did well with his notebooking before, and I thought he'd be as excited about the notebooking pages as I was, but not so much. LOL. He just writes really sloppy and rushes through his work so that he can get done asap. Before HOD, I did most of the reading aloud, and he definitely prefers that, I think, too. I like that HOD requires more of the student and makes them more accountable for what they are learning, but I do miss some of the learning ALONG with my kids. I do get more of that in Preparing, but not nearly as much in RtR. And, I've considered having him read the Story Time box independently while I read the Reading About History box which is supposed to be independent, yet still have him complete the assignments. I plan to try this next week to see if that helps anything. Anyway, sorry I've gone on and on. I just do not know what to do with him. Many days he doesn't even finish half of the boxes....not because he can't but because he won't. He does lose many privileges when he does this, but I feel like he's always behind, and definitely not working at an 8th grade level. One thing that he does love is the Science. I'm grateful for that! And, like I said, the DITHOR reading books. Otherwise he pretty much dislikes everything else. 8-( Gotta figure something out as he will begin High School soon. We are on week 14 currently, and sometimes I feel that maybe slowing down some would help. However, I'd like to continue Math and English everyday. Sigh....I'd love anyone's thoughts and input on this! I have even considered sending him to school (though I never wanted to do that) because he just seems to not want to learn under me. But, I'm afraid that will just be feeding him to a pack of wolves.

[Molly]

Although I'm only new to HOD and I haven't got one as old as yours, can you do as you suggested and do some of the reading with him. The other thing I thought was some incentive for doing great work. Focusing on the positive rather than the negative. Have you chatted to him about how he needs to put effort into things he doesn't like, because it most likely will be that way at some point when working, and when he's working it would be a big negative. Does your DH look over his work at all? I wonder if this could possibly help because I know my children work harder if they know Dad is going to be seeing it.

Anyway, I pray you will find a solution, and that you will get some great advice from the other ladies.

[LynnH]

Dena,
I have a few thoughts. First off does he have any physical issues with writing or is it that he just doesn't like it? Also does he have any trouble reading the material, is he slow reader etc. If none of these are the case then yes it does sound like it may be a heart issue/character issue. I think they tend to pop up in boys this age. I have a few ideas/suggestions some of which I have used with my ds.
1. Are you doing Boyhood and Beyond together? I am amazed at the very timely issues that are in this book. There are chapters on working hard and doing things because they need to be done, not because you are told to or expect a reward. When my ds and I talk about ways he can try to do the things the chapter suggests I do point out in love where I see him not doing what the book says, and then we come up with one very concrete idea for improving.
2. If you think he does better with seeing a grade you could come up with a grading rubric for things like the notebooking assignments. Have a scale 1-5 and have 5 is writes, neatly, finished in a timely manner, work done as directed 4 would be something like neat, took longer than expected to complete etc. I wouldn't grade narrations though unless you are just grading for neatness and getting it done on time,because there really isn't a "wrong" narration. It is what stands out as important to that dc.
3. This week on the HOD facebook page there was information about having regular meeting times with your older dc. I think this is vital! Here is what it said "With any of my students who are in the HOD guides from CTC on up, I have found it very helpful to schedule a mid-morning 30 min. checkpoint in my teaching day to meet individually with each student. During this mid-morning meeting, I go over any of the child's work that he has already completed, ask any questions noted in the 'I' boxes in the guide, have my student read aloud any written narrations, and I read aloud the key idea for each completed box after we go over it, etc. At the end of this time, I do one of my 'T' boxes (such as the Biblical worldview box, composer study box, art appreciation box, devotional Bible study box, poetry box, etc.) These 'T' box titles vary from guide to guide. I also have another checkpoint after lunch where I check any work completed since the mid-morning checkpoint.
The mid-morning checkpoint helps keep me on top of my child's day so that he does not fall behind. My after lunch checkpoint shows me whether my child has completed all his needed work. If you don't have a mid-morning checkpoint in your day, you may want to consider adding in one!"
4. The only other suggestion I have is to let him type some of his assignments if you think it is the physical act of writing that he struggles with. My ds has dysgraphia due to Cerebral Palsy so he does type many of his assignments such as the written narrations.
5. One other thing you might want to examine is how much "screen" time does he get. Does he play a lot of computer/video games. I have seen this have a very negative effect on many boys his age. In fact more and more things are coming out about this contributing to boys no longer working hard. The reverse of that is does he get enough physical exercise. When my ds starts to get an attitude I try to nip it in the bud quickly and send him out to run around the house a few times or run up and down the stairs. Not as punishment, but to help his attitude improve. It really works.

[flydena]

LynnH ~

There are no physical limitations to his writing. He just doesn't LIKE to do it. I also do not think that he has trouble with the reading. I am certain that it is a character problem. I will answer your questions with the same numbers you used.
1. I do Boyhood and Beyond with him as written, and I think it is an absolutely WONDERFUL book! In fact, I couldn't wait to do it because I'd seen it before and always wanted to do it. It is all I imagined and more, but he HATES it, says everything in it is stupid, and has upset me so badly while I've been working through it with him, that now I almost DREAD reading it with him. I haven't given up, though, and I will never give up! He says he is a believer, has been baptized, and most other adults would say he is a great kid. He just is not so with me. It breaks my heart.
2. That is not a bad idea about the notebooking. May try that.
3. I do meet with him to go over his work, and usually it happens once a day. However, this is also a tough time because it's hard for me to be positive when I know he is just slopping something down to say it's done. I do make him REDO or finish things that are not complete. I do like the way the meeting is timed (30 minutes) and how the boxes with questions that were completed are gone over. I probably don't do this well. I have 3 kiddos to rotate around, and usually I start with this child as he has less things with me, then I go on to my other 2. Later in the day, I come back to him to check his progress and possibly finish up anything I didn't get to the first time.
4. I do allow my child to type some things because he seems to like doing that more than handwriting them. However, I cannot trust him to use the computer for ONLY school during school hours, so unless I am free to watch exactly what he is doing, I can no longer allow him to use it. Which leads to #5.
5. My husband just recently opened up a computer repair shop. He is a youth pastor and has been since we got married 19 years ago, but an opportunity arose for him to open a business this past fall, and we jumped on it. He has been bivocational most of our married life, but for the past 5 years he has been in F/T ministry (which was his goal all along). But, we are getting tired. Ministry has been wonderful, but we feel like it's time to focus more on our own relationships within our family. My husband and I have not ever been able to go to church together as a family because every church we've ministered at has had 2 morning worship services. So, he's always gone to both and the rest of our family has just gone to one. And, we've never attended any studies together as a couple. I go to a women's Sunday School class, and he teaches the youth. I have also taught in youth Sunday School, but we've not "grown" together. Not sure if this is making sense, but we feel it's time for us to do these things and focus more on our own family. We don't know that we will NEVER do ministry again, because we may, but for now we need a break. So, we began this business in hopes that we could work our way out of ministry. So, right now (and since September) I work the shop Monday through Thursday and homeschool the kids there (at the shop). It's been very hard. We are hoping to eventually get me back home and him working at the shop full-time, but right now he works around his church schedule, and I just answer phones, and take in drop offs or take care of pick ups. Now, to FINALLY answer your question about screen time. My kids do not watch much t.v., or play many games. However, they love computer time and they have loved it so much that it's become addictive. We have had to put LOCKS on all the computers at home and at the shop because they would get on for what I thought was school and find out later that they were not at all doing school. But, I also have the dilemma of them being at the shop ALL day with me with NOTHING to do when they've completed their school. There is no yard or park close for them to play outside. It is not our home, so though my 4 yr old does bring up a few toys to play with, the older kids don't have much to do to pass the time until we can get home. And, so I have allowed them screen time AFTER they have completed all their school, and if they are not in trouble. But, I still feel the time they are on is entirely too much. It's just a tough time in our lives, I think. We are all way too busy, and I am so tired most days that I cannot even think of anything creative for them to do. My son especially could use exercise, but it's a struggle to get him to do anything. My daughters love gymnastics and dancing, running, jumping, etc. My son is into baseball and that season is getting ready to start, so he'll be getting out more then. That will hopefully be good for him.
So, there is part of our story. Sorry it's so long. I really don't know what to do. It's a tough season, and my son tends to push my buttons and make me even more upset. I'm just trying to figure something out to make our days better with my son. He is just difficult with me, and I really want him to learn, do his best, and apply what he's learning. If that means slowing down, that's what I want to do. I just don't know if that will help or not.

[LynnH]

Dena,
I am lifting up prayers for you and your family. I do know about tough seasons of life and how it seems during those times that everything is a challenge. You have had so much change and have so much on your plate that if you think slowing things down will help then slow things down. My dd at 14 went through a very tough time. She was defiant and angry(especially towards me) and didn't want to do her work. She wanted nothing to do with God or the bible. She was in public school at the time and I later found out that she was being bullied and tormented at school and this was impacting her behavior. For her coming home was the solution, but it took awhile. I remember crying out many times in utter despair. At 16 now she is a totally different child. She is a joy to be around and loves reading and discussing the bible. I will pray that your son will make the same turn around.

[flydena]

Thank you so much! I truly appreciate the prayers! God hears and will answer.

[my3sons]

What excellent thoughts have been shared here already! We also do mid-point and final checkpoints. I added this halfway through last year in RTR, and it did wonders to help my ds do his best work. Each season in life it seems there is one particular child who needs more of me. It seems that your oldest ds is needing more of you in this season. I look at the checkpoints as not only times to make sure my ds is academically doing well, but also as private times to get close to my ds and share my faith and talk through any heart changes needed in a loving way. HOD's Christ-centeredness always seems to provide the catalyst for whatever heart issues we are needing to talk about (mine or his ). I think from what you've shared that this is primarily a character concern. This can be tough, but I am thankful for the extra time homeschooling gives me to help my dc develop better character. I've found it helps me work on mine too. I'd focus on having some firm consequences in place, as well as on having some real time to work alongside your ds to help him learn good work habits and time management skills. Share your love and faith every chance you get! I have prayed for your ds's heart to be softened, and for you to have the Lord's leading to know how best to reach him.

Love in Christ,
Julie

[Carrie]

Dena,

The ladies have already done a terrific job of talking through your options with you and of offering sound advice. I know that you definitely are seeing some heart issues that are wound within the academic challenges you are seeing, so both will need to be addressed.

First of all, I would have your husband and you sit down with your son together to let your son know that you will no longer accept him making derrogatory comments about anything you assign him to do for school. I would let him know that you expect him to participate in whatever you assign him without rancor. I would have your husband specifically address the Boyhood and Beyond problems you are having with your son and point out that this type of behavior will no longer be allowed without consequence. Make sure that you have determined ahead of time the consequence, so you can tell your son what it will be.

Some possible consequences to consider for this age would be removing 5 min. of computer time for each talking back, eye rolling, negative comment throughout the day. You would just keep a tally sheet for this. If your son becomes angry, send him to the corner to gather his composure. We do this with our own 4 boys, the oldest of which is 16.

Or, another possible consequence would be to set aside the subject during which the talking back, negative comments, etc. takes place, and have your son do it in the evening with your husband (instead of doing something your son prefers in the evening). Or, you may have a better consequence in mind, but the point is that there needs to be a conference where together you and your husband partner in showing your son this is no longer acceptable behavior. This is the equivalent of calling in the principal to a parent teacher conference and is usually very effective. Then, be sure to immediately follow through on ANY infraction. Be warned that the behavior will likely intensify before it gets better. But over time, as your son sees you will not budge on this issue, the behavior will gradually improve. You will be surprised how much this one focus will change your entire day.

Next, I would weigh whether RTR is the right fit for your son. I mention this because I see some definite red flags for placement in what you shared above. One is that you did all the reading aloud for your son prior to placing him in HOD. While this is fine, it is good to note that CTC is the first guide where kiddos start doing the reading of their history on their own. The jump up in amount and level of reading between CTC and RTR is quite large, so you essentially skipped the guide that would have eased him into this aspect of learning.

Another red flag is his hatred and difficulty with writing. Again, the transition to the amount and type of written work that you see in RTR was in CTC. For a child who dislikes writing, the jump to RTR would be monumental. While as an 8th grader it is possible he COULD do the written work in RTR, it is also possible that it is a total drain on him because he is unprepared to do what we are asking of him in RTR. He could possibly be exhausted with the work load.

With these thoughts in mind, I would move him back to CTC. If you are truly at the point where you are considering reading aloud his history material to him, then he is placed in the wrong guide. In moving him back to CTC, you will be solving the reading and writing problem, because you will know that he CAN do what you are asking of him for sure. With less volume, you can also expect better work. The added benefit will be that he will be better placed for the long haul.

If you do move him back to CTC, I would probably keep doing Boyhood and Beyond, unless you feel it is just a battle you would rather be done with for now. Perhaps, your husband could just take it over and do it with him once or twice a week in the evenings or on Saturday in a low-key father/son way. CTC will also do much to soften your son's heart and to immerse him in the Bible. It is truly a wonderful year. If you do make the switch to CTC, then feel free to contact us to return any unused, new books and we will gladly credit you for those and apply that toward your purchase of CTC.

I honestly feel that school should be more joyful than this, and so I would work on your son's attitude and proper placement to restore that joy to your homeschool!

Blessings,
Carrie

[flydena]

Thank you ladies for all your prayers, suggestions, ideas, etc!

My son has done great the last couple of weeks since my original post! He has not only completed his school each day, but he has gotten completely caught up in all but his Medieval Writing Lessons, and he will be caught up with that in the next week or two.

I'm am sure that he is capable of doing the work. His good days prove this. I probably will use some kind of grading for the notebooking like LynnH suggested. I also will be talking with my husband about the suggestions Carrie has made about bad attitudes during school and appropriate consequences for them.

I actually posted many questions about placement before even purchasing the HOD levels I chose because I wasn't sure. But, because my son had done Creation to Christ for history since 2nd grade (except for a couple years of geography) I felt he needed to move on from Ancient History. I did not want his first year of this new curriculum to be something he dreaded (especially since so many of the resources we had already used in previous curriculum). I knew, however, that it would be challenging because of the independent work and more reading on his own. This was expected! I probably should have eased him into HOD rather than going full force from the beginning.

I do think that we will finish out RtR, and I do believe he is learning more than it seems. I think Rev to Rev will be a new level of excitement because he's never studied American History and has looked forward to it for awhile. I also forgot to mention previously that he loves geography, so I think next year the state study will be something he looks forward to.

Thank you all for your kind words. I am encouraged!