Rod & Staff English

[newsong]

I have a question about how you ladies are using R&S English. I see that some have scheduled it for 15 minutes a day and I wonder how you're getting through it so quickly. Are you doing it all orally? Doing every other one? Skipping the teacher-lead lesson overview? I've used R&S for years and have never finished in 15 minutes, unless perhaps when dividing the lesson over two days. I'd love to be able to allocate less time but not sacrifice my dc's understanding. Currently, I have a dd in PHFHG doing R&S English 5. Any insights would be appreciated!

[LovingJesus]

R&S English 2 takes us about 15 minutes a day, or less.

We do all of it orally and do one lesson (2 pages) each day.

At the end of each unit we do the 2 unit tests. This I do have him do with pencil and paper and zero help to make sure he is learning the material. So English takes longer when the tests come. If he wasn't doing as well as he is on the tests I would probably do less orally. So far though he is doing Great.

[LynnH]

We are doing Rod & Staff 5 and yes we do it mostly oral. I have him do at the most 10 questions written or I do have the workbook pages so if there is one for that lesson I might have him do that. We do it exactly as scheduled in RTR and that is one lesson on the days grammar is scheduled with the exception of the writing lessons Carrie has 2 days scheduled to do it and the end of chapter reviews she has scheduled to take 2 days. It takes 15-20 minutes.

[my3sons]

We are doing R & S English 3 and 5. We do the 5 oral review questions from the Teacher's Guide. We do not do the rest of the classroom discussion in the teacher's guide. My oldest reads through his Level 5 on his own, and my middle ds and I go through his Level 3 reading together. Then, we do the oral part all orally. For the written part, we have a markerboard ready. I choose around 7 things for my oldest to write, usually I choose diagramming or the writing exercise. For everything else, we do it orally or on the markerboard. For example, if there are 15 diagramming problems, he draws the structures for the diagramming on the markerboard (i.e. the empty lines and brackets), and just points to where he'd write each word on the markerboard as he orally says it. Then, he diagrams the other 7. If there are 2 writing exercises for the day's lesson (i.e. 2 outlining exercises), I photocopy one and have him fill it in or just orally point to where he'd write what he's saying, and then I have him write the other. Carrie's scheduling of halving the reviews has been great pacing. My ds in English 3 finishes in 10 minutes, my ds in English 5 finishes in 15-20 minutes. This has been a thorough, quick, effective way of doing grammar. HTH!

In Christ,
Julie

[newsong]

Thank you for all the responses. It sounds like doing more orally is the key. It also seems like people are utilizing the lesson explanations in the student text rather than going through the lesson as detailed in the TM. We have already been doing the oral review and the oral exercises. Maybe we'll try skipping the TM lesson and either cutting back on the writing exercises or making more use of the whiteboard. Are you all finding that your dc are retaining the information well with mostly oral work? I always tend to lean toward "see, hear, write" in helping to cement new ideas. For those of you with older dc using R&S, did you continue to favor oral work in the upper grades or did you at some point need to build in more writing (and more time) for the lesson?

Relatedly, would I be wise to slow down the pace of R&S 5? In looking up posts concerning English, I noted the schedule has R&S 5 spread over two years. Since we are doing Preparing, that would mean spreading it over Preparing and CTC rather than CTC and RTR. So far, dd has not had any significant problems with R&S 5 but (she did R&S 3 two years ago and ILL last year) it is a lot to absorb. We have been doing most of the lessons in their entirety, though written or review exercises I know she knows we have either done orally, pared down, or occasionally skipped.

[chillin'inandover]

Just a few notes...We use protective sleeve and dry erase marker in the student book to diagram sentences or we use dry erase board. Most (2/3) of the work is oral and (1/3) is written and my ds seems to retain the information; he is in level 4 as a 9 yo 4th grader. I have seen big improvements in his sentence structure in other written work such as written narration. In Preparing R & S is done 4 times per week but in the older guide CTC and RTR the R & S is done 2x/week with a writing program that is done 2x/wk on alternate days. Either the R & S or the writing program is done each day in CTC and older, but not both. It isn't necessary to do R & S over 2 years unless you needed to slow down the progression. Tammy

[my3sons]

I agree - doing a good portion of it orally has been the key here as well. How old is your dd - or better yet - what grade is she doing? HOD has an overall goal for dc to complete R & S English 6 by the end of Grade 8, which is why I am asking.

If you are doing a different level or R & S English than is scheduled in the HOD guide you are using, it is advisable to try to keep the number of times you are doing the grammar the same as the number of times it is scheduled in the guide you are using, as well as on the same days it is scheduled. HOD maintains a careful balance in the amount of written work required each day, and keeping the grammar on the same days as it is scheduled keeps that balance nicely intact, so no one day is a heavy LA day.

In regard to your good point of "see, hear, write", I do carefully weigh what it is my dc write. For example, writing "S" to stand for "singular", and writing "P" to stand for "plural", is an exercise we'd choose to do orally instead of written. Writing "S" and "P" does little to further understanding. However, diagramming sentences is very worthwhile writing, so we typically always choose to do the diagramming exercises for our portion to write if there are any. Likewise, writing skills that are taught provide very worthwhile writing, so we typically choose that portion to write if there is any that day.

We have found both the oral review and the review lessons to be integral to our dc's retention. I know, because I altogether forgot to do the oral review questions at the start of one year, and I noticed a huge difference in retention (I quickly added the oral review back in once I realized I had forgotten to do this). Doing both the daily oral reviews and the section reviews, our dc's retention increases every year. The reviews reinforce the concepts and build better retention. I've noticed that my dc go from not being able to answer many of the oral review questions well to answering more and more of them correctly right away. With newer concepts, retention takes longer, but R & S does a super job of reviewing the concepts from year to year. My oldest ds, doing R & S English 5, has excellent retention of the topics he has been exposed to at least once in a prior year, and budding retention in the brand new concepts. His retention is considerably above any retention I had at his age in school, and I loved grammar and had an excellent grammar teacher.

Both of our dc, for their respective ages, have strong grammar and writing skills. I think this is largely due to not only the wise selection of using R & S English for grammar, but also for the excellent balance of other LA skills in tandem with the grammar. Written narrations, oral narrations, dictation, and copywork all work together with R & S English to create a solid LA education across the various subject areas. The writing programs chosen each year vary from guide to guide (creative writing with RLS poetry, "Write with the Best", "Medieval History Based Writing Lessons", "Creative Writing") to give exposure to many different types of writing as well.

HTH!
In Christ,
Julie

[newsong]

I appreciate the thoughts and ideas. I think we'll try doing things a bit differently on Monday and see how it goes.

Julie, my dd is 10 and is doing R&S English 5. She is in PHFHG so English is scheduled 4 days/wk. I did notice the goal of completing R&S English 6 by the end of 8th grade and the fact that the HOD plan was to spread 5 & 6 over grades 5-8. That's what prompted my question about slowing down the pace of R&S 5 now rather than waiting until it is scheduled as such in the CTC guide. So is the consensus that I should just stay the course with R&S 5 as long as she is getting it and not worry about when we end up completing R&S 6? I'm just wondering how being out of sync will mesh with the Language Arts balance in later guides.

[twoxcell]

My ds is doing R&S English 2 and it is pretty quick for him. We do most of it orally but I make him write at least one segment each day. Level 2 is fairly easy for him and I'm sure the higher levels will take more time.

[Carrie]

newsong,

This thread is full of great discussion and good teaching tips. I currently have my sophomore doing the last 1/2 of English 7, my 7th grader doing English 5 along with Rev2Rev's plans, and my third grader doing English 2 along with Bigger's plans. With all of our kiddos, we have always done 2/3 of the lesson orally and 1/3 in writing. The daily oral review at the beginning of the lessons is also very important.

We have seen very good retention through the years, as Rod and Staff does a terrific job of layering concepts going deeper each year. Often, the retention comes after several layers of Rod and Staff English, so we don't expect perfect retention in every level. Rather, it is a process as you travel through the years of English instruction. The wonderful part about Rod and Staff (when combined with the CM skill of written narration, dictation, copywork, etc.) is that you'll see great carryover into a child's written work. This truly is the goal of any English program so that is good news!

As far as your situation goes, since your child is so young, I would lean toward continuing with English 5 but taking 2 days to do each lesson. In that way, you'll be at a more manageable pace each day, and your child won't get overwhelmed with too much information to apply too early. You could just keep that same pace next year as you head into CTC. Then, you could spread English 6 out over 2 years the same way. That will help keep your English work and written work in balance, since we schedule quite a bit of written work in CTC and RTR.

Blessings,
Carrie

[my3sons]

...I would lean toward continuing with English 5 but taking 2 days to do each lesson. In that way, you'll be at a more manageable pace each day, and your child won't get overwhelmed with too much information to apply too early. You could just keep that same pace next year as you head into CTC. Then, you could spread English 6 out over 2 years the same way. That will help keep your English work and written work in balance, since we schedule quite a bit of written work in CTC and RTR.

Blessings,
Carrie

This is a great idea! I think this would work well. It will keep your child in touch each day with English without it being too much information. As mentioned, the written work in CTC and RTR increases, so this pacing will keep things very manageable, yet keep your child moving forward. HTH!
In Christ,
Julie