Need Help w Singapore Math 4a problem on Text pg. 40

[doubleportion]

My dd is doing Practice 2B today on page 40 of the 4A textbook. For the life of me I can't figure out how to have her do this problem! I could only figure the answer using algebra and I know there is another way. The problem says: "the difference between two numbers is 2184. If the bigger number is 3 times the smaller number, find the sum of the two numbers." My answer key says the answer is 4368. Please someone tell me how my 4th grader would figure this out? I'm afraid that she gets her lack of math skills from me. I am not strong in math either.

Help!

Edie

[beverett]

I really do not know if this will makes sense... but here is my try
if i had a way to draw you a picture it would be easier (but i lack in tehnology skills )

I would draw a small bar to represent the smaller number on top of another bar to represent the larger number (this bar should be 3 times a long) dividing this one into three sections.

Then show with a line or a bracket that the longer bar is 2 sections longer than the bar on top... the "difference" between them which is the 2184 (so then we know that these two sections on the longer bar equal 2184.

Now we divide 2184 by two to find out how much each section in the third bar equal...

You get 1092

so now you know that one section of the bigger number equals 1092
the smller number is 1092 (because by our bar picture the small number is the small bar which should equal one section of the larger bar)

now to find the bigger number multiply 1092 by 3... we get 3276 the you have to add the small number (1092) plus the larger(3276) and now we have the sum..( 4368 )

I hope i didnt just completely confuse you

[pjdobro]

I understand how you feel. When my ds brought me this problem at first the only way I could think of it was using algebra, but it can be done visually. If you think back a few books back in Singapore, they would set up problems using blocks. I started out trying to describe it, but decided a picture is worth a thousand words. So hopefully this will help.

If you set the problem up visually, it becomes apparent that the sum of the two numbers is equal to 4 times the smaller number. Or you can break it down step by step and find the the smaller number is 2184 divided by 2; find the big number by multiplying this number by 3; then add the two numbers together. I hope this helps. You'll find another similar problem or two in the next few days either in the text or in the workbook. I can't remember which. There is one about 3 piles of books. Again, just set it up using pictures/blocks and it can be seen visually how to arrive at the answer without using algebra.

[doubleportion]

Patty you so ROCK! Thank you! That helps tremendously!

Edie

[doubleportion]

I really do not know if this will makes sense... but here is my try
if i had a way to draw you a picture it would be easier (but i lack in tehnology skills )

I would draw a small bar to represent the smaller number on top of another bar to represent the larger number (this bar should be 3 times a long) dividing this one into three sections.

Then show with a line or a bracket that the longer bar is 2 sections longer than the bar on top... the "difference" between them which is the 2184 (so then we know that these two sections on the longer bar equal 2184.

Now we divide 2184 by two to find out how much each section in the third bar equal...

You get 1092

so now you know that one section of the bigger number equals 1092
the smller number is 1092 (because by our bar picture the small number is the small bar which should equal one section of the larger bar)

now to find the bigger number multiply 1092 by 3... we get 3276 the you have to add the small number (1092) plus the larger(3276) and now we have the sum..( 4368 )

I hope i didnt just completely confuse you

Thank you, Beverett. What you said in words is what Patty drew for me. The visual side of me needed the drawing to picture it and "get it" but thank you for helping too.

So glad I have this board!


Edie

[pjdobro]

You're welcome! I'm glad it helped.

Beverett, you did an awesome job describing that in words. I tried for a few minutes and then finally gave up. You have a great gift of explaining with words!

[beverett]

Oh my goodness ya'll are sooo sweet!!! Edie, I would personally have to see it to "get" it also!! I am so glad you were able to get the picture up, pjdobro! Very IMPRESSIVE

[my3sons]

Patty and Beverett - can I just say you are amazing? Thank you so much for the encouragement you give on this board. It is truly inspiring. And Edie - you are sure an incredible help on this board as well! You may have been asking the question this time (which BTW was a good one), but you are often providing the answers to others' questions with such patience and love. God has SO RICHLY BLESSED HOD with the help you all provide on this board. God truly chooses best.

Love in Christ,
Julie

[doubleportion]

And Edie - you are sure an incredible help on this board as well! You may have been asking the question this time (which BTW was a good one), but you are often providing the answers to others' questions with such patience and love. God has SO RICHLY BLESSED HOD with the help you all provide on this board. God truly chooses best.

Love in Christ,
Julie

Julie, I am glad I am able to contribute something on here. You yourself provide a tremendous wealth of knowledge and encouragement that I am very grateful for.

It is so nice to feel free to ask a question and not feel like you will be treated like you are dumb for asking it. I seem to have quite a few moments with math, since I am using the Singapore way to teach my dc but didn't learn math that way myself. Defintely brings more head scratching than I would have expected.


Edie

[pjdobro]

Patty and Beverett - can I just say you are amazing? Thank you so much for the encouragement you give on this board. It is truly inspiring.

Thank you so much Julie for your encouragement! At times I feel that I post too much and I don't want to dominate the board, but I do want to be helpful to the other ladies here. I know that you and Carrie are especially busy now with conventions, writing, and editing and don't have as much time to put into the board. I know quite a few of the other ladies that have been around a while have very young ones at home now and probably don't have as much time to put into the board either. So, I try to help out when I can. I pray I can be helpful and a be a blessing here.

[my3sons]

Patty - you are an incredible blessing to Carrie and me. Never, ever, ever think you could ever, ever, ever post too much here. We depend on you and the ladies to help out - God is doing great, big things with HOD, and it would be beyond our ability to maintain everything well without your help!!! Thank you -it is deeply appreciated each and every. single. day.

Love in Christ,
Julie

[ashley78]

SO NOW FOR A DRAWING OF THAT 3 PILES OF BOOKS PROBLEM;0