New here & to HOD

[Okiehomeschooler]

Hello everyone. We are making a change from MFW, then FIAR (LOVE it, but need a bit more structure), to HOD. Hoping HOD is all I expect it to be & wish I had started here in the beginning. Looking forward to it, but just need some placement advice.

Our older daughter turned eight just a few days ago. Our younger daughter is 6.5. They are 18 months apart. First and second grades.

Older daughter reads very well, just started cursive, doing well with math, just easy, easy as can be. Very mature, and catches onto everything easily. Younger daughter is a bit immature, she knows all her letters (upper/lower), can copy words and/or sentences (though she is not able to stretch her letters from line to line), is working on sounding out two letters together but finds it frustrating, and does not yet grasp simple addition, though she is getting it slowly! She is enthusiastic about learning, but has a really hard time grasping ideas. She is sweet as can be!

I've looked at the placement charts (seems like hundreds of times), and I just can't make a decision. I don't know whether to start older daughter in Bigger & younger daughter in LHFHG, or place them both in Beyond. I posted on another board & got a lot of thoughtful responses, but all of the answers were very different....lol.

Add to my dilemma that we also have two little ones who are 6 months, and two years (again, 18 months apart....and again, April & October birthdays!), so I will also be teaching them at some point. Hoping I can start them together & we won't have the maturity issues we have with the girls. Sure would be great to have the two sets in two sets of books, rather than four! However, my concern at this point is for my younger daughter. My older daughter is very passive & happy to do whatever we provide. I don't want her to be bored, but I also feel no need to push her ahead. I just want them to have fun learning.

Thanks for any feedback regarding placement. I hope I've provided enough information to help! BTW, I plan to do the emergent readers with my older daughter, though I know she could move on......I just want her to have the opportunity to read those books with me.....and I know she'll enjoy it.

[netpea]

We are making a change from MFW, then FIAR (LOVE it, but need a bit more structure), to HOD.

Welcome, I too have used MFW and FIAR but I love HOD. From your daughter's ages fall within Beyond's range. The question would be whether or not you think young dd could handle the workload, as each manual builds on the next and if she isn't up to doing Beyond, when you hit Bigger hearts it will be more difficult to pull her along.

Did you look at the sample weeks for both LHFHG and Beyond? that might help you see where she belongs. Keep asking questions, the ladies on here love to help.

[MelInKansas]

So it sounds to me like when you read the placement, your older daughter fits into Bigger the best, and your younger into LHFHG, is that right? From the few things you mentioned that seems like where they would fit to me. Here's another question to consider, how does the younger one do with comprehension, or being read to with longer stories with fewer pictures and more difficult vocabulary (learning new vocabulary from things read to her for example)? If the answer is that this is also difficult for her, I definitely would not place her in Beyond. I don't know how your girls do about comparing themselves with one another, but my 2nd born is always comparing herself with her older sister. The thing she thrives on is having her own school stuff, that she is not doing with older sister, where I can praise her for her improvement and when she does a really good job. She gets so excited and so filled up with that (maybe its a middle child thing). So I would definitely consider that also, you say your oldest wouldn't have any problem with a program that might be easy for her, but would your 2nd have trouble in a program that is difficult? My 6.5 YO DD places very well in Beyond, and even with that we have had struggles because the copywork is challenging for her and she doesn't enjoy it, so she doesn't want to do it. Or the Scripture memory and Bible Study work we do in Beyond is definitely more challenging than it was in LHFHG, sometimes I worry that she's not catching on to that like she should.

Plus, I would fear that if you start your 2nd in a program that's too difficult and then are going to keep going, you will be continuing with the struggle or tension between holding the older one back while you try to push the younger one forward. Maybe it would be better for you and them to just let them be where they are at skill wise and teach them where they are. I had a dream in my mind of combining my 1st and 2nd DDs in a guide, but I realized that in order to do that within the next couple of years I really would be holding my oldest back and pushing my 2nd into something she wasn't yet ready for. I'm glad we went ahead with Beyond instead of trying to wait on it and do something else while my younger one matured. Again I have seen this year that my 2nd will probably need her own program and while she is actually ahead of where her sister was at the same age, having her own time and her own program will really work out best at least for the next couple of years.

I am intimidated by the thought of doing 2 guides (maybe 3 next year as I may also try to add in LHTH for my youngest). But as I am already familiar with the younger guides, and seeing some of the ladies on here who do it, and say that when your child is ready for the material it is not that difficult (takes work, yes, but not terribly difficult) that gives me hope that of course the Lord can enable me to do it. I hope you find His wisdom in where your children need to be in this program!

Blessings

[Okiehomeschooler]

Thank you for the responses so far. I'd love to hear more suggestions!

I have looked at the samples (printed all three, laid them out on my bed, compared, contrasted).

I guess one thing I should have asked is, does my younger daughter need to be reading for Beyond? If so, that pretty much wraps it up for her because she is not....at all. She does LOVE to listen to books. We recently read Black Beauty, two chapters each night & then they drew what they heard. She was able to do that & enjoyed it and there were only a few pen and ink drawings throughout the book.

When I looked at Beyond, there was so much that I don't want my older daughter to miss simply because she is ready for cursive. She is working in Singapore 2A, so we'd go on with that. We just finished studies on Leif, Columbus, and Pocahontas, so when we do Bigger next year, it would all be familiar and fun to her. If we do it now, it will be an instant repeat, unless we skip it.

When I place them, younger daughter falls between LHFHG & Beyond. She can write & knows the sounds for all the letters. If I ask her to write MAN and I'm very patient with her, she will sound it out with a lot of effort & is able to write it, then she is absolutely thrilled!

They have been working together so far & there are no issues with her feeling behind. They have their own math & she completely accepts that her sister is older & able to read, and that she too, will read before long. However, I will say that since I've never had them in their very own curriculum, it is intriguing. The idea of her having her very own may be thrilling to her........or she may miss the interaction together with her sister. However, my older daughter may really love the independence of working alone while I work with younger daughter. Younger daughter tends to be loud & move A LOT & it frustrates older daughter while working.

I should say that my younger daughter was not treated well prior to birth (we adopted her), and has some central nervous system damage that becomes more evident as we move along with academics. She is a bright as can be, however, processing information and impulse control are difficult for her. She is not delayed in any way, but struggles with most things.

Do the history portions of LHFHG & Beyond align at all? Maybe I should buy Beyond & look at it before I make any other decisions. It's 4am & I'm debating all of this....I wish it was a clear & easy decision!

[countrymom]

It is wonderful that you are taking the time to correctly place your daughters, even though that is hard work. We are just finishing Beyond and did Little Hearts prior, and based on everything you have said I would not place your younger in Beyond. One thing to remember with HOD is you can place your children in the 3 R's where they fit. It does sound like your youngest fits into the right side of Little Hearts nicely though. With your older daughter I wouldn't worry about repeating a time period. Beyond and Bigger both cover US history, but are both very different. Even if your daughter covered those last year, Bigger would certainly be different and I don't think she would be bored. Many parents prefer not to do guides back to back, so if your oldest places well in Bigger I think I would just go with that.

[Heather4Him]

Just wanted to say "welcome"! We came from FIAR (years ago) and MFW, too, and they were both great, but HOD is where God has led us for the long haul. I think you will LOVE it and be very happy with your decision.

Sorry I don't have placement advice, because we just found HOD last year and are using the upper guides. They are awesome, so I think you will be happy with HOD for the long haul, too!!

[mom23]

I'd also not really recommend you try to combine them in Beyond. I did that when we first came to HOD last year (our kids were also 6 and 8 at the time), and it was a time filled with frustration for all of us because it was just too much for my younger child. I was constantly trying to "tweak" things-scaling them back for the youngest and beefing them up for the oldest and neither of them ended up getting all Beyond is intended to be. I know it sounds crazy, but it was so much easier for us to use 2 different programs than it was for me to combine them in the middle. I ended up buying the younger program (Little Hearts) mid year and it made all the difference for my ds and I-he really began to flourish and suddenly went from hating school to loving it, and understanding and learning! I almost wish I'd have bumped my dd into Bigger at the same time, but I kept her in Beyond to finish out the year. Bigger probably would have been the better fit last year, and it really sounds like that may be where your family is at right now. I agree with the pp that Bigger History is a different and fun approach, and I really doubt your daughter would be too bored or need to skip the lessons about the people she's already studied. If she's ready for Bigger, I wouldn't recommend holding her back just to avoid missing Beyond's history. Bigger will cover American History as well, just with a little different focus.

Also, I know it's tempting for me to do this too , but try not to look down the road and worry about how on earth you'd handle 4 guides someday...Just meet the needs of your kids as best you can right now, and see where the others fit when they get there. They may very well be able to combine. Enjoy the journey-without the worry!

Okay, that's my input-for what it's worth! Welcome to HOD!!

[Larissa]

First, I want to say welcome to HOD - you will love it!

Secondly, I think that it would work to combine them in Beyond. Beyond really is fantastic! If she can listen to two chapters at a time of Black Beauty, and draw what you read to her, I think that Beyond would be fine for her. You have already stated that they will be doing their own level of math and reading.

You can beef up Beyond for your 8 year old with Rod and Staff English 2, and a cursive program. Your 6.5 year old can continue with whatever phonics/reading program that you are doing with her, while your older one works independently on her math and copy work.
Then next year when you do Bigger, you can combine all the left side for them to do together, and have your 6.5 year old do the right side of Beyond.

I also have 4 children. Mine are not as close in age as yours ... so I have not been able to combine them. At some point, I will be running 4 separate guides. I can honestly say, that if I could combine them, I would. It's remotely possible that I can combine my younger two ... and I would do it just as I described above. I must reiterate that Beyond really is a wonderful guide! I am doing it for the 2nd time around and I love it just as much!

[my3sons]

Welcome to the HOD Board, Okiehomeschooler! This has been such a good discussion. I think you have some very good things to ponder here already. From what you've shared, focusing on first just your youngest dd, I think she places best in LHFHG. While it could be possible to stretch your younger dd and combine your 2 dc in "Beyond Little Hearts..." now, I don't think it would work to combine them the following year in Bigger Hearts. In a past thread, Carrie had this to say in regard to the amount of writing between Beyond and Bigger...

As far as choosing between "Beyond.." and "Bigger..." goes, the amount of writing varies quite a bit between Beyond and Bigger. Bigger requires more writing in the areas of a once a week history notebooking assignment, a once a week science experiment sheet and a once a week science notebooking entry, along with once a week copywork of a Bible verse, 1-3 vocabulary cards each week, cursive handwriting practice daily, and daily grammar instruction with written practice. It also provides a choice of spelling or dictation passages. If your little one sounds like that would be fine for her, she belongs in Bigger. If not, then Beyond would be best.

Beyond has much less writing doing copywork daily from the poetry, using a gentle once a week introduction to grammar, and writing daily for very short spelling lessons.

So, looking down the road, I don't think it would be feasible to have your younger dd doing Bigger Hearts in a year, which is why it seems like LHFHG would be the best placement for her.

Now, I guess I am really wondering about your 8 yo. If you focus just on her and academically where she places best (not considering whether she'd miss out on Beyond or not), where do you think she'd place best? The Eggleston books used for history in Bigger Hearts require a higher level of reading comprehension than Beyond's history books. Here is a link where you can click on the Eggleston's chapters and read some of them to see if dd is ready to listen to and understand these books...
http://digital.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin ... 00ABY5325m

Also, the writing that I already mentioned above is something to consider when choosing between Beyond and Bigger. So, that is something to weigh. With these things in mind, do you think your older places better in Beyond or Bigger?

Having looked at the progression of reading and writing now, would you say that your 2 dc are fairly close in their academics or quite far apart? If they are fairly close, and it would not be holding oldest dd back too much, you could do Beyond with the 2 of them, but take it very slowly, possibly taking 1 1/2 years to go through it. If your youngest dd really blooms and takes off in her LA, then this could work as she could then be ready for Bigger Hearts. However, if oldest dd is a slam dunk for Bigger Hearts, I think it would be easier just to do Bigger Hearts for her and let her take off with that, and then give younger dd real time to flourish by doing LHFHG with her.

We do multiple guides, and I personally find it much easier, as each of our dc need different things due to their different abilities and ages. Often times, the oldest child in a family tends to take off more quickly. Carrie had this to say in a past thread...

You've already had some good suggestions, so I'll just mention that many families find that their oldest child is ready-to-go academically and typically that child receives more of your teaching time too making them even more ready (as they're first in line for school). So, it likely would work well to just get that child going where he/she fits best now. Then, it often works well to combine the next kiddos in line (if they are fairly close in age). So that would be a definite consideration for you as you go along. At HOD, we actually plan for you to be able to run multiple guides. Many moms find that once their oldest is moving through the guides (and they are familiar with HOD), it is easier to add a second guide (and even a third guide) the next year and feel comfortable doing it!

Does this description seem to fit your oldest? If so, it would most likely be best to teach your 2 dc separately.

So, in a nutshell, combining works well when dc are relatively close in abilities and age levels, and when you choose the core guide with the younger in mind and beef up for the older. It is very likely that your next pair of dc will be able to be combined more easily. For the oldest pair of dc, I think it depends how much of a learning gap there is between the two of them, and how ready for Bigger Hearts your oldest is. I'd love to hear any thoughts you have about this! I hope something here helps. Keep working through placement - this is an entire year of you and your dc's life - it's worth the time. HOD does have an excellent return policy, so you could always place them where you think they place best, order the materials, and see how it goes, making a change later if necessary. HTH!

In Christ,
Julie

[tnahid]

Sounds like you will LOVE HOD since you love the CM approach to learning and your children are somewhat used to it already. I have used FIAR and like you, I needed more structure. HOD is perfect for me in this respect.

Bless you on your new journey here. The ladies are so helpful on this board. A HUGE blessing.