6YO, 1st grader, and math

[MelInKansas]

Most of the time I feel like my daughter, who is 6.5, picks up really well on math. She certainly doesn't have any trouble completing her Singapore workbook pages, although we do still have some stumblings in 1-20 in terms of the names, numbers, and writing them. She gets hung up on 13 and 15, I guess because they almost follow the pattern of 14, 16-19 but not quite. 30 and 50 are the same way. Also she does addition and subtraction on her fingers (DH taught her to do this about a year ago, so most of the time she just uses her fingers). I have a friend who is homeschooling who used to be a PS teacher and she is discouraging her son from using his fingers, she lets him use counters so that he won't always have them.

Memorizing is not her strong suit. She can do it, and she does. On scripture memory, she struggles the most with references. But I can tell it is harder for her than for her younger sister. Or I should say also, she tends to approach things from a problem-solving perspective rather than memorizing. With reading, she now knows many sight words but when she first started reading she didn't memorize the words from one reading to the next, she would sound them out and read them again. My 4.5 year old is learning to read and even as early as she is in it, she is memorizing the words (having them as sight words).

Do you think a child of this age should already have some math facts memorized (she knows 1+1, 2+2, but not much beyond that)? Is using her fingers okay, or should I encourage her to use something else? Should I really drill out the 13, 15, 30, 50 problems or just keep working in the book and hope she will get better at it as she gets older? Thanks for any thoughts, I sometimes think I worry about nothing just because I don't have the perspective of having seen a child already go through these things and figure them out.

[Robbi]

Well I will give you my opinion, but we are actually not as far along in Beyond as you are! I think your DD is doing ok!! My DD age 7 still uses her fingers some(although I have also heard that its not good). I pointed out to her the other day that she only has 10 fingers so it won't work all the time. And she said, that's ok, I can use them again! The numbers she has trouble with is 12, 21!! I just read in another post that Carrie said they don't do any math drills until 3rd grade & then only if kiddos need it. I think for your DD doing the activites in the lessons plans will really help her learn them the best since she's not a memorizer anyway!!
Just wanted to encourage you & say HI!! We are practically neighbors, we are in NE!!

I'm gonna try to post link of post I was refering to: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2635&p=19558

[pjdobro]

I couldn't help but wonder when reading your post if your dd can tell 5 and 3 apart? For someone that has vision problems those 2 numbers can be difficult to tell apart. Without my contacts or glasses I can't tell them apart and even with my vision corrected with my contacts sometimes I have a bit of a problem since I have uncorrected astigmatism in one eye. Have you had her eyes checked so you know that isn't a problem? I don't know if that is helpful at all, but it's just a thought I had.

I don't think there is anything wrong at all with counting on her fingers at this age. Just today, I counted on my fingers! I usually don't do that, but it was more practical for what I was doing. I actually do know my math facts. Really though I think that it's not at all a problem at a young age. I guess I understand the idea about using manipulatives instead. It's kind of like letting a baby use a pacifier instead of sucking his thumb because it's easier to break the habit. On the other hand, the advantage of using fingers is that they are always available when needed. So there are two sides to that argument. Both of my dc started out counting on their fingers and don't do it very often at all now. The hands on activities that you are using in Beyond will help her use manipulatives instead and many times they are yummy edible manipulatives! I think the facts are memorized as they are used and I don't worry about them especially addition and subtraction. As you continue to do the hands on activities and progress through Singapore, she'll continue to remember many of those facts just through repetition of use. I know the public schools here really stress memorization of facts and don't let the dc progress until they can pass a timed test reciting these facts. I really think that is sad because they are held back from learning concepts just because their memory of facts or their ability to perform well under pressure isn't great. In time those facts will be retained and those poor kids will be way behind many of their peers by being held back for so long. I think if your dd is understanding the concepts as you do your math activities and able to do the workbook without problems, she is doing great with what you are doing. Like the old saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

[MelInKansas]

Thanks to both of you for the thoughts. Most of the time I think she's just fine, again she sure seems to catch on and follow it okay. I love the activities we do, even though sometimes we tend to rush through them, that's when I can really see that she does understand the concepts. I know as a young child I was very good at figuring out patterns and filling out workbook pages even when I really didn't understand the concepts that the page was trying to help me learn. I think the activities really show whether or not a child gets the idea, or help them to actually get it.

Patty, I don't think it's a vision problem at all. What she struggles with is relating "thirteen" and "fifteen" to "13" and "15." So if she counts 13 of something and is supposed to write down how many there are, she will sit there and struggle with how to write "13." Or on the pages we're doing now, the number is written "thirteen" and she's supposed to write "13." She does great with all of them except 13 and 15. And when she's reading the numbers, again 13, 15, 30, 50 she will sit and look at it and then she will so often call 13 "fifteen." I guess I can't completely rule vision out, it just doesn't seem that way to me, but it's worth a check.

[pjdobro]

I didn't understand what you were saying about the pattern of 14 and 16-19 before, but I think I understand now. Do you mean she can understand fourteen because it is four and teen and the same with the others? If the fact that thirteen isn't three teen and fifteen isn't five teen is throwing her maybe something that would help would be to teach her the correlation between one, two, three, four, five and first, second, third, fourth, and fifth. I don't know if that would confuse her more of help her correlate 3 with the thir and 5 with the fif. It's an idea, but I think if she seems to be learning the concepts and you can see that through activities then I wouldn't worry. You could always try to just do some extra work with her with thirteen and fifteen to try to help her distinguish them.

[MelInKansas]

Yes, that's exactly what I think the problem is. 11, 12, and 20 I suppose she just has memorized because those are different anyway and she doesn't struggle with those. But when it's "thirteen" I can see the wheels turning, she's trying to break it down "thir" "teen" and it doesn't make sense to her. We've even talked about that "which one does it sound like, thir-three" but so far it hasn't helped. It seems like such a little thing, but then again I do feel like she is mapping out these patterns in her brain and I don't want them to always be confused. My husband actually still struggles with 11 and 12, saying one and meaning the other, or seeing one and reading it as the other. That can be pretty bad when it comes to us setting a time for something!

[MelInKansas]

Robbi not only are we neighbors my oldest 2 are probably very close in age to your kids! Fun! Thanks for giving me that perspective too, I should just relax I'm sure she will keep growing and learning, she's done really well so far!

[Robbi]

YEP! My Dd just turned 7 in July. We started Beyond after labor day so we are in week 4. We are only doing it 4 days a week usually. Loving it! It has been such a smooth transition into homeschooling!

My DS will be 4 in Nov. We started using LHTH just half speed so he can have mommy time too!

So our kiddos are very close in age and using the same guides! I think you're a few weeks ahead of us in beyond! FUN! FUN!!

[MelInKansas]

Yes, my oldest turns 7 in January and my middle turns 5 in February, I think she will do LHFHG next fall. My 2YO might do LHTH next fall, I'm not really sure about that yet, if so I'm sure we will do 1/2 speed, only 3 days a week.

We are in unit 9 of Beyond, but we also only do 4 days a week because Thursdays she has a co-op and both DD6 and DD4 have dance class. So that means that by the time my 4th baby is born we will probably only be through unit 25, we will take a few weeks break at that time and maybe pick up with Beyond again in May-June... kicking off my 3 guides in July! At least that's the plan at the moment. It may change before then, and I'm sure it will depend on what happens with the baby, this is assuming all goes well, baby comes when he/she is supposed to, and I'm able to get back into a pretty good routine after baby is born.

Nice to "meet" you!