Running 3 Teacher Intensive Guides!!!

[Mom4Him]

Katrina- It is SO hard to decide isn't it!? I'm so interested in this thread, as we will be in a similar situation in the years to come!
I do think that having the middle 2 doing LHFHG (with Beyond right side for older) sounds like a great plan!!
Yet, it seems like you really WANT them to all be in different guides! So, if that is your true heart's desire (& of course what you think would be best for your sweet family)- although it would definitely have its challenges- it could work!!

A few thoughts I had as I was reading your original post (you touched on quite a bit of what I was thinking in your next posts)...
* doing all 3 teacher intensive guides at the same time would be draining, but doable with a good routine as some of the others have mentioned. (We are doing LHFHG at our house this year, & it never takes us longer than 90 minutes- unless I am just letting them continue on doing an activity- art project, play-dough ,etc.)
* you could definitely combine story-times (although I would hesitate more to combine Bible time- for it goes so well with the History- & the "flow" of the guides)
* taking LHFHG at half speed would work well- you could easily do K handwriting/fine-motor skills the first year & 1st grade materials the next- this would put a little more space in between guides, & would only take about 45 minutes a day
* taking Beyond at half-speed could also work really well- as this would allow you the time you need for each individual child (starting now, would be a good option with him too, & then if you ever felt you needed to & were able to bump up to full-speed 4 or 5 days a week, you could do that... once were into the guides & a routine, this would be easier to do)
* I like your idea of starting Bigger now, & getting your oldest son going- he seems like he is ready, & you will be able to get him doing many things independently before you start the others- which I think will benefit your family no matter what route you go with the middle 2.
* For your peace of mind- I would just plan on waiting until your little boy is 4 to begin LHTH (as it sounds like you are getting plenty of good time with him in spurts throughout the day).
* It does seem like a good idea to at some point bump each child up to going full-speed, but from reading from others- it seems like you can "just tell" when your little one (& your family) is ready.
* Also, I can't remember if your daughter has gone/is going through LHTH. If not, she could use that for her K year, with phonics, handwriting & math added on, & then start LHFHG the following year.

Anyways, just some thoughts. I know I don't have a lot of wonderful suggestions- I mostly just typed out a lot of what you said already. Hopefully, this can at least bring you some encouragement that you are not crazy in your thinking!! And, I will be praying as you make your decisions!
Blessings,
Jessica

[Bramble]

It took me time to accept that, too (that my one son would be on the oldest end of his guide and the other son would be on the youngest end.) However, I really try not to look too far ahead. Life happens (which can result in the guide not getting done when we thought it would!) and can change our best laid plans, or maybe later I will need to split them up. I'm trying not to get ahead of myself.

About my son in Bigger, we are not currently using DITHOR. He has finished his cursive book so we are just integrating cursive practice into his poetry copywork and other writing. We read everything, do all activities/experiments, and go through all assignments on the couch. When he goes to his desk, he usually has a list like this: copy part of poem, copy Bible verse (one day/week), English (just a few to write out), read, math (it's already been taught or explained on the couch), spelling (sometimes I have him copy words 5x (we're not following HOD spelling exactly), science: once/week notebook page and once/week experiment page, history: vocabulary or art or notebook page and timeline. I read storytime at bedtime, and all 3 older kids listen in (and sometimes 3 yr. old DD although she interrupts too much! LOL But then she surprised us all one night and gave a narration!)

HTH

[MomtoJGJE]

independently (after I've explained or done hands on stuff, which takes about 5 minutes) I get all the material out including any plain paper or paint or index cards or whatever.

Bigger (DD7, will be 8 in April, reads well, but doesn't like to read)

Bible
art after I get everything ready for her
timeline
Poetry copywork
cursive
dictation studying
math (after going over it)
science notebooking (after explaining it)
DITHOR - she reads the section, then I go over questions and possibly write down answers that she gives me, then she fills in the workbook pages

Also, we do English completely orally

LHFHG (DD just turned 6, can read, but we are doing ERS slowly.. might take two years to do them)

I explain directions with handwriting (ARFH - A), Thinking Skills, and Math (1A) and then she does them, coming to me in between each book and asking any questions she might have.

She's not doing phonics, and only reads once or twice a week, so that isn't included with our general time... I do not have her read during school time, just whenever she wants to at the moment. I've become very lax with teaching them to read after being frustrated with both of my olders and them seeming to learn faster when I don't teach them If they get halfway through LHFHG and can't read, then I might start doing phonics... otherwise no. When she does read we only do 10-15 minutes.

LHTH (DD almost 4.5)

I'll set her up with the art type things (gluing onto the letters or whatever) and let her go to town. When we do the count on me pages I will work with her to draw the stuff and to count them, but then I write the numbers at the top of the page for her to copy.

I figure having 4 and possibly more who are not at all able to be combined right now at least that I'm going to need to train independence early in the areas I can, so that it will come naturally when they are old enough and capable enough to do the majority of it. I believe Charlotte Mason says that the child should be doing all their own readings starting at age 9 if they are capable.... I'm working toward that.

[8arrows]

I think you could possibly run three successive guides. However, even though they are independent, the older guides are meaty. You are going to be doing an lot of shuffling between students, books and even time periods that you would not have to do if you combined two. I like your idea of the oldest in Bigger with the next two in LHFHG (the older of those two doing the right side of Beyond). My 6/7 year old will be doing this next year with her 4/5 sister. My 6/7 year old COULD do Beyond (and would even place there), but the 4/5 could not. She will still learn, probably have more fun with her younger sister, and I will be sane--an important side note! I do have 8 children, so I know I may think about combining more than others might need to. I am looking at this from the side of a mother with older children. My high schoolers still take a considerable part of my day (with Pre-Calculus, Algebra 2 and Chemistry). I am glad my younger children are combined or I could not get to everyone. Of course you will be in the best position to make the final decision about your particular family.

[abrightmom]

Ladies,

I just want to say THANKS to all of you for your help! All that has been shared is "food for thought" as I'm thinking deeply about proper placement for my middlers. I confess that it has overwhelmed me this week!

There is no scenario that meets everybody's needs properly so I'm at the place of figuring out the pros/cons of each option. Then I must make a decision and move forward with it. Easier said than done but at some point it must be done, right?! My notebook is full of lists, pros/cons, scenarios, etc.

I do have a new plan that is very different from what I'd originally envisioned. I'm thinking on it a lot and coming to grips with it even today! I need to do more research and get a few more questions answered first . It may be what we need for those two. It will keep me teaching 3 guides BUT not as intensely as I was originally thinking . . .

Thanks again for the counsel!

[Carrie]

Katrina,

The ladies are doing a great job as they talk through all the possible options and combining scenarios with you! This board is truly filled with women who love to encourage one another and give wise counsel. What a blessing!

I can completely understand your desire to consider separating all 3 of your oldest children in their own guides, as I can clearly remember when the idea that I could possibly separate my children and meet their needs better first came to me! It is an eye-opening experience and is something that you don't hear often in homeschool circles, as all I had ever heard in the past was that you "should" combine your children for history and science, and any other areas that work too!

I will also share though that combining children who fall within the target age range of our guide is something that is wise to ponder, as kiddos who are as close in age as 2 years are much more easily combined than those who are 3 or more years apart in age. With my own 4 boys, who are each 3 1/2 to 4 years apart in school, combining was not a good option for any of them due to their age spread. So, for us running 4 separate programs is easier than combining them. But, it's important to keep in mind that with the age spread of my boys, my older boys are able to be more independent, because they have had my teaching focused on them for years! So, my youngers are now able to have my focused time as my olders move toward doing more on their own.

This would not be the balance that you would have in the 3 programs you are considering, as each of those programs require the teacher to present almost everything. Even though your day would not be 6 hours long with LHFHG, Beyond, and Bigger, it would certainly move toward being that long as you head into Beyond, Bigger, and Preparing Hearts. I shudder to think of the length of your day at that juncture! We honestly don't intend for anyone to run three consecutive HOD programs at the same time. We do intend for you to run 3 HOD programs at one time, but it does matter which programs those 3 are! Some of the programs need to be either on the shorter end (such as LHTH or LHFHG) or some of them need to be moving toward the more independent end (such as CTC on up).

So, with this in mind, I would definitely lean toward 2 programs for now, with LHTH being added later. I would really ponder which programs those should be, but with what you've shared so far, I would let the older child head into Bigger Hearts and reap the benefits of a first-born child who is ready to fly on his own. I would then combine the younger two in LHFHG for the left side and the Storytime plans each day and add the 3 R's from Beyond for your older child.

I have had a child go through everything academically on the youngest age range with my oldest son, had a child go through on the middle age range of our guides with my middle son, and now have a child going through on the oldest target age range of our guides with my third son. Each child took something different from the material, based on his age at the time, but all are successful.

When combining your son with your daughter in LHFHG, you could use the 101 Favorite Stories from the Bible for your son and The Family-Time Bible for your daughter. You could read The Family-Time Bible to both, and then have your son read The 101 Favorite Stories on his own (if possible) or you could read it to him as an extension. The other two history books used in LHFHG are very interesting and may honestly be ones your son will take more from than your daughter. The Thornton Burgess books are wonderful for any age, and my older boys refuse to give them up from a place on their bookshelves in their room, as they continue to read and enjoy them even now. The devotional is wonderfully deep and will have your son thinking as well. I share this to show you that there is more meat in LHFHG than first meets the eye. With this scenario, you would also have a built in back-up plan. If you ever felt your son needed to be accelerated more, you could always bump him up to the next guide later.

I hope this helps you as you ponder, as you will certainly know best. I just wanted to give you a bit of our perspective too, so you can see how we designed the guides to work.

Blessings,
Carrie

[abrightmom]

Carrie,

Thank-you. You have bent over backwards to counsel me today and in previous months. The decision making process seems to be happening in layers .

Thanks for confirming that running those 3 intensive guides is a BAD IDEA! I'm relieved to know that.

I DO want that dear middle son to experience LHFHG. I realized that this week as I pulled the materials off the shelf. The program is wonderful and though he needs Beyond's skills the content of LHFHG is not to be missed. I am happy to place him there and had decided that I WANT him to do LHFHG before Beyond. I didn't realize that before . . .

It's my little girl. She IS just beginning to read using The Reading Lesson. We LOVE it and I'm so thankful to be enjoying it with her. Truly. But, I'm hesitant to begin LHFHG with her too soon. I'm still thinking on that one . . . My "new"idea is to run Bigger, Little Hearts and Little Hands. I still have to "ponder" these questions and concerns. She IS showing some readiness skills but I'm not sure if her heart is quite there (devotional times). Still pondering though . . .

Do you think that doing Bigger and Little Hearts with my boys and Little Hands with my daughter is a reasonable plan? It's okay to say no . That puts my next "round" of guides back up to 3 though (Preparing, Beyond, LHFHG). The ONLY way I see putting the two of them in LHFHG is to run it half speed for awhile. Even then I'm hesitant . . . I don't want dear middle son to wait any longer and I don't want to start her yet. But, I'm considering that my ideas may not be the right ones!!!

I DO have a question that presented itself as I was considering the combining option (as you've suggested and has been discussed before by so many kind and lovely Mamas here). I realized that if I combine those middlers that my daughter would be 8 when she begins Preparing!!! From my perspective (inexperienced!) that seems young. Now, she WILL have the benefit of being schooled the HOD way from the very beginning (Praise the Lord!) so she may be a very different kind of learner than my oldest son. He is 8.5 and a very good student but he has NOT been schooled the HOD way. I have not been consistent in training him or building skills into him. I do believe that if I'd done that he would be fine in Preparing. That said, I just don't want the girlie in the family to always be stretching or reaching to grasp the content or do the work. Is that a concern or is that a bridge to be crossed if/when we get there?

Thank-you again. I appreciate this message board so much. I am thankful for the opportunity to think out loud and to bounce ideas and concerns off of one another. My thoughts are in a funnel and we are nearing the bottom (decision time) so they are moving faster and faster!!!

May God bless your efforts in the home today and may you have a wonderful weekend!

[pjdobro]

Katrina, I can't help much with combining, etc., but I did want to tell you my experience with my two dc and others that I've seen. Typically girls have better motor skills and language skills at a younger age. They tend to be able to write better sooner and seem to pick up on the nuances in language sooner so quite often they are better readers sooner. Now this is a generalization and it doesn't always hold true, but in the case of my twins, I've seen that to be true. As we approach 9, my ds is catching up in many of those areas, but still from an academic stand point, but dd is still ahead of my ds at this age. She could easily have done the same work academically at least a year before him up until this point. I think as they get older, that will continue to even out. Your dd has the benefit of having all of the wonderful skills taught to her from the very beginning. So if she is able to do all of the skills in each guide fully leading up to Preparing, then she'll be ready for that guide when she gets there. If at any time she isn't progressing in skills the way you feel she needs, you can slow things down for her to make sure she ready for the next step.

[abrightmom]

Katrina, I can't help much with combining, etc., but I did want to tell you my experience with my two dc and others that I've seen. Typically girls have better motor skills and language skills at a younger age. They tend to be able to write better sooner and seem to pick up on the nuances in language sooner so quite often they are better readers sooner. Now this is a generalization and it doesn't always hold true, but in the case of my twins, I've seen that to be true. As we approach 9, my ds is catching up in many of those areas, but still from an academic stand point, but dd is still ahead of my ds at this age. She could easily have done the same work academically at least a year before him up until this point. I think as they get older, that will continue to even out. Your dd has the benefit of having all of the wonderful skills taught to her from the very beginning. So if she is able to do all of the skills in each guide fully leading up to Preparing, then she'll be ready for that guide when she gets there. If at any time she isn't progressing in skills the way you feel she needs, you can slow things down for her to make sure she ready for the next step.

Thank-you for sharing this! I AM inexperienced with girls and I've heard this before, that girls are more advanced in the early years. Actually, my daughter has excellent fine motor skills for a four year old. My boys did NOT . I've been "testing" my DD with LHFHG materials and the ONLY thing I'm not sure about is the Devotional. But as I was reading through it last night I realized that what Carrie says IS true. Each child will glean from the program at THEIR level and will take from it what they're supposed to. I can entrust this process to the Lord and ask Him to work in my children's lives as we interact with the wonderful materials.

My Dear Husband likes Carrie's plan and wants me to proceed with it. That pretty much clinches it!

[Carrie]

Katrina,

I think you have a wonderful plan coming together. I do think that if you truly felt your daughter wasn't ready for LHFHG, you could do LHTH for her instead. Running LHTH, LHFHG, and Bigger Hearts is very doable. This is because LHTH is short and so is LHFHG. The following year as you moved into LHFHG, Beyond, and Preparing Hearts, it would still be doable but perhaps you would run the LHFHG at half-speed for that year only to accomodate the time you'd need to spend with your olders. Then, the following year, you could finish out LHFHG at full-speed 4 days a week with your daughter, do Bigger Hearts (our most intensive year with your son), and have your oldest in CTC (which is much more independent and would really help balance things out). So, this plan is a great back-up plan too.

To test how your son and daughter do combine though, I'd likely start your daughter in LHFHG with your son if you think she may be able to handle it. I'd give them 4-6 weeks together to see how it goes. If at that point it seems too much for your daughter, then you could easily back her down to LHTH and just have your son keep on going with LHFHG with nothing truly lost. During your trial run, if you wanted to do school 4 days a week instead of 5 that would slow LHFHG down just a bit to allow your daughter to mature a bit as you go (if she did end up hanging in there with your son). It would also stretch LHFHG about 9 weeks longer, if you kept the speed at 4 days a week. So, these are just a few thoughts I have any of which would work.

Blessings,
Carrie

[abrightmom]

Katrina,

I think you have a wonderful plan coming together. I do think that if you truly felt your daughter wasn't ready for LHFHG, you could do LHTH for her instead. Running LHTH, LHFHG, and Bigger Hearts is very doable. This is because LHTH is short and so is LHFHG. The following year as you moved into LFHGH, Beyond, and Preparing Hearts, it would still be doable but perhaps you would run the LHFHG at half-speed for that year only to accomodate the time you'd need to spend with your olders. Then, the following year, you could finish out LHFHG at full-speed 4 days a week with your daughter, do Bigger Hearts (our most intensive year with your son), and have your oldest in CTC (which is much more independent and would really help balance things out). So, this plan is a great back-up plan too.

To test how your son and daughter do combine though, I'd likely start your daughter in LHFHG with your son if you think she may be able to handle it. I'd give them 4-6 weeks together to see how it goes. If at that point it seems too much for your daughter, then you could easily back her down to LHTH and just have your son keep on going with LHFHG with nothing truly lost. During your trial run, if you wanted to do school 4 days a week instead of 5 that would slow LHFHG down just a bit to allow your daughter to mature a bit as you go (if she did end up hanging in there with your son). It would also stretch LFHGH about 9 weeks longer, if you kept the speed at 4 days a week. So, these are just a few thoughts I have any of which would work.

Blessings,
Carrie

Carrie! I need some heart shaped smilies! Bless you! THIS is the plan that brings peace to my heart. This is exactly what I'm going to do. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh. That is a sigh of relief. I'd wondered if this was a do-able plan and had it written out on my whiteboard this morning. Yes, yes, yes. I'm so at peace with this and I like the idea of the test run for LHFHG. LOVE it actually.

Thank-you for hanging in there with me through all of my planning phases. I'm so excited to be here. My kiddos can't WAIT to begin. Thank-you again and again. God is faithful . . .

[Mommamo]

Just wanted to tell you that we started LHFHG with C when she was 4.5 (she's our oldest). It went perfectly! Because of life we aren't going to get to Preparing until she's about 8.5, most likely, but although I was concerned, I'm pretty sure that she'll be able to handle it when we get there.

Now my little guy who is now 5 - there is NO WAY he could do LHFHG now. So all this is to say that if she fits well on the placement chart, then definitely go ahead and give it a try. I think having that spacing between the guides would probably help alot.

My younger ones are combined now with LHTH. My boy is at the upper end of the range, my little girl at the lower end. I think this will be a good placement for them. I plan to keep them combined throughout, so long as it continues to work well with them. I really trust Carrie's age ranges and am so thankful she wrote the guides that way.