Still trying to work this out....

[alydar]

ugh! I'm so sorry to keep kicking this horse....but,

DD 4.5 (turning 5 in April) is just truckin' right along in Little Hearts with DS 6.5 (7 in May) minus the phonics and Thinking Skills. Even though I've tried to continue on with LHTH with her she just won't stay out of LHFHG! If we keep on at our current rate we would be finishing up the guides around late summer. That's good because then DS could move right into Beyond. And I know DD won't be able to keep out!

So here's my most current thinking: In the fall, put DS in Beyond full-speed (depending on how he handles things we'll adjust accordingly). Then let DD do the right side of LHFHG on Kindergarten level and do left side + Storytime in Beyond.

Following year: Do right side Beyond, left side Bigger? She will be 6.5 about that time.

My question is: Given that she would be on the younger side of things, is it reasonable to think she can handle this schedule of guides?

[pjdobro]

It's really difficult to say. It depends on how quickly her skills advance. If she is able to read, write, narrate, etc. at the level that the guide recommends then it should be fine. If on the other hand, she is not up to the skill level of the current guide, she won't be getting the full benefit of the program. That's not to say that she wouldn't gain anything from it, but it wouldn't be the skills, ideas, etc. that were intended for her to get at each level. As you continue to move up in the guides those basic skills of reading and writing are going to become more crucial. Each guide is also going to require more maturity as far as ability to listen longer periods of time and process more difficult language. In particular there is a big jump in listening level required at Bigger. Also as you continue to go up in the guides, the subject matter could be more difficult for younger ears. I haven't found anything objectionable, but for instance this year in Bigger we are covering wars therefore there is more violence inherent in the era. Carrie is good to point out when there is going to be something in the reading that is more violent and could upset sensitive listeners, but that is something you will have to consider if you are using the guides younger than recommended. Maybe there will be someone here who has used the guides at this younger age and can share their experiences. I think it might just be something you'll have to try and see how it goes.

BTW, I've been wondering how is you ds doing with your daughter tagging along? Is he doing fine having his little sister with him for his school?

[alydar]

Hi Patty,

Thank you for your thoughts on this again. It's nice to hear from folks who've BTDT.

In truth, it seems to help that DD is there with DS during school. Like I've mentioned before, he can't stand the thought of any kind of school and if he thinks he's having to do something that no one else has to then I hear about it. Just today, I sent DD to the computer to do Starfall while he did his workbooks at the table.
DS: "Why does she get to do fun things and I don't?!??"

Me: Seriously?!?? (is what I'm thinking) I mean, c'mon! We just spent the last hour running around the house pretending we were Joash hiding from the queen, making artwork about the firey furnace, practicing the bible verse (they love that part!), doing the music............no fun???

The truth is is that he DOES have fun but hates to admit it. So, if he feels he's in the "trenches" with someone else it makes it more bearable I suppose.

I see what you're saying about the workload in BIgger (and perhaps even Beyond). One of my biggest concerns about having her repeat LHFHG is that she'll not be interested in the Bible History and Storytime or other elements that she has participated in fully this time around. But maybe I'm mistaken thinking that way. Perhaps she'd do fine starting over......just not convinced about that though.

Thank you again!

[mamayi]

Hi! I hope I can offer some insight that might help.
I was in the exact situation just two years ago. My oldest son was in Little Hearts and his sister was right there in the middle of everything as well. While I focused mainly on my son as we started that guide it became apparent that my dd was keeping up quite well. What I ended up doing was taking about a year and a half to go through Little Hearts and then a year and a half to go through Beyond. And now we are taking two years to go through Bigger (since my dd is just 6.5 now and doing Bigger but she'll be 8.5 when we start Preparing). The slower pace was fine for my son who is an average student and also gave my quick-learning daughter time to mature. They do everything together except for math and reading.

For reading, I started each child with The Reading Lesson when they were ready (which was 5.5 for my son and took almost a year, but 5 for my dd and only took about four months) and they just progressed then to the Emerging Readers (which is where my dd currently is) and now my ds is doing DITHOR this year. The way HOD's reading program is designed makes it very easy to customize no matter which guide you are using.

Your idea of doing right side of Little Hearts and left side of Beyond is pretty much what we did. We had a break while we were in Beyond (due to a new baby) and then when we resumed again my dd just joined in to all of Beyond and I considered her done with Little Hearts. (that was more for my ease after having the baby).

Having my oldest two children combined has worked well for our family and kind of came about naturally as it seems it might for your dc. If your dd can keep up not just skill-wise but also maturity wise then keeping her with her brother might work. However I did find especially when my dd was 5 that if I asked her to do too much it would result in a lot of tears. It wasn't that she wasn't academically capable, it's that she wasn't mature enough to handle the amount of work required. If your current programs and pacing are working I would just continue it and then re-evaluate in a few months when you are finished. It's amazing at how much a child can progress in just a few months.
And you can always adjust the speed of your programs to meet the goals of your family as well.

HTH!
Andrea

[alydar]

Thank you mamayi! You have some great ideas there.

It seems that is it going to take us a full year to get through Little Hearts right now (due to a small break). I think that pace is good for DS as he is able to handle all the work as written. I think he'll be ready to move to Beyond by the fall. I could try to stretch it for DD a bit but I'm not real sure how to do that. I can't really exclude her from doing the art or science that DS is doing that day and tell her to wait til tomorrow. And very rarely do I have to water down anything on the left side for her.

So here's where we're at right now. DS does LHFHG full-speed; DD does LHFHG more or less half-speed (all of left side + storytime listening, answering, narration - no writing exercises). Then she does starfall for letters/sounds or may watch a DVD for that. I'm having a hard time using LHTH because she's so involved with LHFHG's history and other content. Plus, she already has aquired alot of the math skills that are scheduled in LHTH. So it's been hard trying to do that program for her when she's pretty much past most of it. Her main areas that need concentration are writing/fine motor and starting phonics.

I'm thinking now that I may order the kindergarten skills books, another set of the earlybird math, and TRL and just start adding that in to her day. Basically, I'll be bumping her up officially to kindy level in LHFHG. Then back her down to half-speed?

Again, how do you half-speed one child and not the other in the same program and not have someone feel left out?

[water2wine]

This is sometimes hard to know in advance but I have done this with two kids and really have two different results. One is behind because she has learning disabilities. It is permanent in the sens that it is damage to her brain so we are actually having to find new pathways for her to learn. I have found with her I need to adjust on things like math and LA but in terms of the skills of the guides eventually that becomes a disservice to her to move her beyond her ability in the guides. That just ends up multiplying over time rather than dissipating like it would for a child that progresses evenly or in a linear way. So for her we may do things half paced etc but I have decided not to promoter her beyond her abilities of the guide and be careful in that area.

My other child is now 6 and really reads at about 6th grade or maybe even higher level. She has just exploded in that area and also does well in math. I have her with her 9 year old sister who is more of an average or on grade level reader. Her writing skills are not the same as her 9 year old sister. She is not behind but it just does not match her reading ability or her math ability. I have her in Bigger and I am just working with her to develop the writing skills and the maturity that I know Preparing will require. This seems to have been a good choice for her. On the one hand her skills are not up to the higher end of the guide but she can comprehend really at the higher end of the guide and her skills that lag are catching up steadily. I feel confident she will be good for Preparing next year. And if she is not I am not too far off where we could not take it a little slower and i could fill in the gaps for my dd that is with her in the guide but older. So it works well for her but she has the potential for learning and catching up that my other dd does not.

The best advice I could give is to look hard at their learning potential and the skills they may lack on the placement chart and honestly ask yourself at the speed they learn will they be able to fill in the gaps or would moving them slower really be the better option in the long run. I think the taking the one side of one guide where they fit and matching it to the other side of the guide where they fit there can really be a great solution. It's a really great solution I think for a child that moves forward in a kind of predictable fashion. The beauty of HOD is that you can meet them at their needs. I think however you do that though it is wise to try to make sure you keep that wonderful thing of being able to meet them at their level. In other words try not to move them beyond the ability of the guides to in a reasonable way meet them at their level. Sometimes you have to just try and be open a bit in adjusting as you go if you are a little off target in an area. It helps me a lot to look at the guide above and see the skills that are needed so that all year I can be moving them towards filling in those gaps a bit. You may not be able to predict completely but to have an idea of where you are headed really helps.

[my3sons]

What a wealth of wisdom there is here in water2wine's post! Her concrete examples of how you can look at your dc individually, and then determine which pacing is best, while also considering how to combine, makes total sense! I agree whole-heartedly with every single thing she said in her well-thought-out post, and I think when you get a chance to read it, it will give you an excellent direction to take with your 2 dc. A big factor in this whole scenario is how your dd develops in her LA skills, which is why I think you have an excellent idea here in what you said:

...I'm thinking now that I may order the kindergarten skills books, another set of the earlybird math, and TRL and just start adding that in to her day. Basically, I'll be bumping her up officially to kindy level in LHFHG...

I think this will answer your question about whether you can combine your dd and ds. By starting these LA skills with your dd, you will be able to see how she does with them. Some dc just take off, and others need more time to develop. The result of both can still be excellent readers and writers, so I think in this endeavor it will be important not to push dd in the hopes of making combining happen, but instead of just looking at this like a way to begin these LA skills with her at a pace she can handle and blossom with, and if it just so happens she takes off, then I do believe combining your 2 dc is definitely doable! If you are finding dd is blossoming, and it is worth perhaps slowing ds down so she can join him, then I would do that. If you are finding frustration, tears, you are having to drop writing skills, etc. from the guide so she can do the guide, then that is a sign to you that not combining would be better for all around.

This portion of water2wine's post was especially helpful in thinking through this...

...The best advice I could give is to look hard at their learning potential and the skills they may lack on the placement chart and honestly ask yourself at the speed they learn will they be able to fill in the gaps or would moving them slower really be the better option in the long run. I think the taking the one side of one guide where they fit and matching it to the other side of the guide where they fit there can really be a great solution. It's a really great solution I think for a child that moves forward in a kind of predictable fashion. The beauty of HOD is that you can meet them at their needs. I think however you do that though it is wise to try to make sure you keep that wonderful thing of being able to meet them at their level. In other words try not to move them beyond the ability of the guides to in a reasonable way meet them at their level. Sometimes you have to just try and be open a bit in adjusting as you go if you are a little off target in an area. It helps me a lot to look at the guide above and see the skills that are needed so that all year I can be moving them towards filling in those gaps a bit. You may not be able to predict completely but to have an idea of where you are headed really helps.

I bolded the portion that resonates with me especially. This is the single best indicator for me if my dc are going to thrive in the next guide - they need to be able to do ALL of the current guide they are in by its conclusion. I hope this helps, but I really like your plan to start her on the K LA in LHFHG and see how it goes! Oh, and if you get going and find as your ds finishes LHFHG that dd needs LHFHG again, then I'd just do LHFHG again, but do Beyond's Storytime with the 2 of them instead of doing the LHFHG Storytime with her, as Beyond's Storytime will be new for her and be fine for her to do with him. Also, you can do the Gr. 1 LHFHG science to switch the science up some, and doing the 1 year sweep of history again will be fine, as it is varied enough to still be interesting - there is so much there to enjoy - and Bible stories (though just a portion of LHFHG) are meant to be enjoyed again and again! I'd just choose the other LHFHG Bible, whichever one you didn't already use, and use that. HTH!

In Christ,
Julie