Scheduling Bigger and LHFHG, help and advice needed!

[theruffs]

Hi Ladies,

I have 2 boys ages 9 and 10, and a sweet girl who is 5. This is my first year of homeschooling and we are definitely enjoying the benefits! BUT WOW this is hard!!

I would like to get your thoughts on how I can better schedule my kids. The boys are using Bigger and my daughter is using LHFHG. I found very quickly that I didn't have time to do LH full speed, so I am only doing Phonics, Fine Motor/HW, Math and Storytime with dd.

Could I throw out my schedule and have you guys look at it? I haven't been able to find time to do the poetry, the storytime box for Bigger (even though I bought the boy interest pack), or some of the more involved history art projects like the ones that involve painting. This is all so new to us. Both of my boys require a lot of one on one time and it is starting to wear on me. My 10 year old is mildly dyslexic and has some significant attention issues, and my 9 year old has hated school since the day he started Kindergarten (the main reason I pulled him out of p.s.) so he rebels against school work.

Here it is:

8:30 - kids have morning stuff done, we read a quick bible story (we're working our way through chronological bible story book)

8:45-9:30 - I work with dd (LHFHG) and do math, fine motor and Phonics. Boys are free but have to be quiet.

9:30-11:00 - I do school with ds9: Emerging Reader, History reading and rotating box underneath, Bible Study box, English lesson, Math and sometimes spelling. I enjoy this time with him and he thrives on the undivided attention. During this time ds10 is doing his independent work in his room (handwriting, spelling worksheet (sp. workout), math exercise or whatever else he can do by himself. He is my ADD child and sometimes isn't even finished with all of that by the time we are done! dd is roaming free during this time.

11:00-11:30 - Phonics with dd if we didn't get to it in the a.m. (usually bc we took longer with bible and started later), or I go over ds10's folder with him, or I feed the kids early if they are starving.

11:30 - 12:30 - lunch. I am ready for a break. both boys are also... DH works from home so we all kind of do lunch together.

12:30 - 1:30 - I do school with ds10. Everything I did in the morning, I am now teaching again. And ds9 does Handwriting, spelling and maybe a Math Exercise or some copywork. dd is watching PBS or playing.

By now it's sometimes 2:00 because we aren't on schedule. We still have science to do. I don't want to teach anything else twice so I have to insist that we combine. My boys are fine apart, one on one with me, but together they get wound up and become total stinkers. It's really frustrating... It takes forever to do science but we make it through. Today we didn't get finished until 4:00! I just can't believe that it's taking so long to get everything done. I LOVE the curriculum. I know it will take some time before we get this down, but I wonder if I might get some advice. I have tried so many schedules using the MOTH colored squares and nothing works. I am really liking everything we are doing, but by the time we are done with school and I get it all ready for the next day, it's dinner time, then bed time and I'm exhausted. I would absolutely Love to do the left side of LH with my daughter eventually but just don't know when.

I hope I haven't given too much info and made this too long for anyone to read. I am curious if there are any of you using Bigger and LH that wouldn't mind sharing their schedules. What am I doing wrong? Should it be taking an hour and a half to do teaching with the boys?

Thank you!
Tracy

[striving2Bprov31]

Dear Tracy,

Let me start off by saying that I am not very good at looking at someone else's schedule and helping them brainstorm new ideas. Its just not my strength here on the message board. But I want to offer what encouragement that I can. Here is what I will tell you.....You are not doing anything wrong! What you describe in your post is so so normal for the first year of homeschooling. My "short" answer to your question is to hang in there, keep working the problem, don't quit, and eventually you WILL find the sweet spot that you are looking for! It really will happen. Maybe not during your first schoolyear, but eventually. When I was going through what you describe, it really just became a matter of me hanging in there until I "figured" things out, with the Lord's wisdom!

You are doing a great job and don't forget---this is so normal with your first year!

I hope more people chime in that can give you some good ideas!

By the way, I think your schedule looks just great!

[pjdobro]

It definitely is tough starting homeschooling. It might take you a while to find your groove and figure out what works best for you. I'll share a few thoughts that I had, but keep in mind that I only have 2 and they are in the same guide.

For me it works best to get our school work done before I allow my dc to have any free time. If I allow them to have free time before we get our work done, they get very distracted and I have a hard time getting them to focus on our work. I have to tell you though that this is our 4th year of homeschooling and I'm just now figuring this out! I have a few independent tasks that they can do without me before we start school officially such as their Cheerful Cursive and sometimes a review math sheet. I leave a list on our whiteboard the night before that lets them know what they can start on if they are ready to start before I am. I'm not much of a morning person so sometimes (OK usually ) I'm moving pretty slowly in the morning. We always start with a prayer and the Bible study portion of the guide. I feel like that gets us heading the right direction for the day. From there we might take things in any order. As the year has been progressing, I try to figure out which areas are going to require more time from them that they can do without me. For instance science or history notebooking or a follow-up math assignment. So I'll figure out what we need to do together, tackle those items first and then end up leaving them with follow-up assignments to work on independently. I'll check the independent work that they may have done earlier then go work on some other things that I need to do. I'll check back later to see the other independent work they've done. This has been a progression for us this year. The farther we've gotten into the guide, the more independent they've been able to become on some boxes. So my teaching time or the actual time that I'm sitting there with them has been decreasing.

One thing that I wanted to encourage you on is I've read here on the boards that Bigger is the most time intensive of all the teacher guides for the teacher. It is the one that helps dc begin to acquire the skills that they need to be independent in future guides. So this should be your most teacher intensive year with your boys.

I don't know the dynamics of your family so take this with a grain of salt. It may or may not be helpful. But in reading over your schedule, I was thinking it might be better to start with your boys together first thing. It seems boys can be easily distracted and if you are having a difficult time working with them together, I think I would do that first thing in the day when they are the freshest. I wouldn't allow them to have any free time first. After working hard with you and giving their best, then they have earned their free time. I'm not for sure what your dd could be working on during this time, perhaps handwriting or copywork, or maybe an educational video or dvd? I would do the Bible, poetry, music, history, activity, science, and storytime with your ds's together. It might be more than you can do in one sitting. That's probably about 1 1/2 hours worth of work. If there are any activities that can be done without you, then I would try to explain them and then leave it for them to finish later. For instance the science and history notebooking, vocabulary, are all things that the dc can finish on their own later. I would then try to work with one son on his grammar and math again doing the teaching and leave him to finish it on his own. Then rotate and do the same with the other ds. They will each then have independent work to finish up (all of the things that you taught earlier along with any writing or reading) that they can be doing while you do LHFHG with your dd. I'm assuming that each ds has his own math and grammar program. That should take about 2 1/2 hours of your time teaching, 1 1/2 hours with your two ds together and 1/2 with each of them independently. That might be too long for your dd not to have you personally so perhaps you would need to do some of her LHFHG before doing the basics with each of your ds. The total teaching time for LHFHG shouldn't be more than 1 1/2 hours. The left side and storytime really isn't much more than 30 to 45 minutes. Perhaps you could do that part with your dd while you are having your boys finish up their independent work. I'm just brainstorming here.

I'm thinking of some more ways that you might be able to schedule this, but I have to run now. I'll come back later and try to share a few more thoughts.

[seekhimfirst]

Hi Tracy!
Welcome to homeschooling and HOD! One of the first things I was told when we began homeschooling a year ago was to give yourself lots of grace!! It certainly can take a bit to get into a routine! I think you will continue to love using HOD as you find what type of routine or schedule (or lack thereof for some) that works for your family. We absolutely LOVE HOD!

My thoughts may be totally unhelpful for your situation but I hope they might at least give you some ideas! Starting our day on time seems to be key in how smoothly our day goes. I have one in Bigger and one in LHFHG and also one in CTC but it has been totally manageable, especially if we keep to a routine. I agree that if you could at all combing your two in Bigger more it will really help! I hate that you are missing poetry and storytime. They are just great! We finished our first storytime book today, Ben and Me, and loved it. I also think the things that you do with the poetry, like choral reading, would be really fun to do with two kiddos together. If you are looking for something to do one on one for that "special time" maybe you could do the bible with them separately and it wouldn't take too long to do that. My kiddos treasure that time when we do storytime and bible together, just the two of us.

I also agree that if you could get your olders started on something first thing it might help. There's a whole 45 minutes first thing in your day that is gone for them while you do LHFHG! I know if I let my oldest (in CTC) start out with free time the rest of the day would be out the window! While he enjoys CTC he is a very "outdoorsy", athletic boy and would much prefer to be doing those type things than school. My kiddos don't have free time until their school work is done. That being said, I do have educational activities (center style) set up mainly for my kindergartener for when I am working my other two. It's not "free play" but it is stuff that can be done without my assistance and it reinforces things he's learning.

Perhaps you could even quietly do math and English with one son (at the same table or general area) while the other is nearby doing those independent type things so that you can make sure they are on task and then rotate. My oldest normally does some things in a different room from us so he can concentrate better. Recently, he has needed a little more guidance in this area. For just a little bit he will have to do more in the same room with us until he shows he is finishing in a timely manner and doing a good job of it.

The schedule sticky has lots of great schedules to look at! You can look at mine here http://www.mediafire.com/?yl1mvh8yjvov0d0 or on the schedule page. I love to get ideas from others! You can see by mine that we could easily be finished with LHFHG and Bigger by or before noon.

Hope this encourages you to keep going and you will eventually find what works best for your family!

[pjdobro]

I'm so glad that someone who is actually doing those programs together was able to share some tips for you and point you to the sticky link on the main page that deals with scheduling. Looking through others schedules has helped me tremendously. There is another current thread on scheduling: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8282 that I think you might find helpful. In it my3sons gives a link to her past schedules and I think she has done this combination of guides before. So hopefully looking over others schedules will be helpful for you.

One thing I have learned from looking at others schedules is that using blocks of time can be very helpful. You will have active blocks of teaching time and you will have blocks of time that don't require your constant input. If you can figure out which parts of your day are which, then you can schedule blocks of time back and forth between active teaching time and independent work. For instance, if you can figure out about 20 minutes of independent work for your sons to do, you can work with your dd on maybe her math or phonics during this time. Hopefully giving her a math page or some other follow-up that she can work on while you go spend 30 minutes doing the left-side of Bigger with them. Then they can have maybe a notebook assignment or vocabulary assignment to complete while you go work with her for another block of time. In this way, you might be able to have them all working at once and just dividing your active teaching time between the 3 of them.

I'm not for sure what grammar, phonics, math, etc. that you are using, but if your grammar teaching is taking more than 15 minutes or your math teaching time is taking more than 20 minutes, you might want to consider using the programs that Carrie recommends. It is so helpful to have short, quick lessons like the ones in R&S grammar and Singapore math. It makes our day move along and not drag on.

Another thought I had for you is that you could consider slowing your dd down to 1/2 speed since she is only 5. You could do the left-hand side of the plans on one day and do the basics. That way you would be getting it all in and she is young enough that slowing down probably wouldn't hurt at all.

Finally, I just wanted to encourage you to hang in there! I remember that by this time in the year during my first year homeschooling, I was burnt out. I didn't think I could make it another year and that was kindergarten! Then I found HOD and it was such a blessing! Lucky for you, you are starting with HOD so you already have a great curriculum with which to work. Finding the schedule that works best for your family may take time, but you will figure it out. Hopefully there will be lots of other ladies who are doing the same programs that can hop in here and give you details that will help.

[theruffs]

Thank you ladies so much!! It helps to hear that others have had this hard of a time during their first year. We are using everything Carrie recommends except the dictation. We are doing R&S 3 and using Singapore. I am using the same English level for both boys, but they are at different Math levels. We have started Spelling Workout, so that is about the only thing we do different in the guide.

My biggest problem is behavior. Like I said, alone with me they are sweet and compliant. Together they get silly. And then there is the other issue of moving them from one thing to the next. It's like herding cats all day long! I know it will get better, and it HAS gotten better, but they drag their feet and fight me every step of the way!

I am going to go back to the drawing board again and will read through the scheduling post. I am SO appreciative of the suggestions. I know I am losing a ton of time teaching everything twice. Thank you again for your suggestions!!

Tracy

[TammyTE]

Your boys are at the age where they might work well with incentives;-) Maybe explain to them that if they work hard and don't fool around they can earn something....extra free time, tv time, computer time, special dessert...whatever you want. You could make it elaborate and have some sort've token system they put in jars, or checks on a paper to keep track of or you could just tell them at the end of math time whether or not their behavior earned them anything. LOL

Just saying that a little incentive at first can create some nice habits for the future. You could start out doing it daily for a few days then make it something like Friday we will get pizza. Then it can be this month we will go roller skating. Just something for them to work toward by behaving and not acting silly.

I hope this is helpful! I've got some silly ones here as well.

[Carrie]

Tracy,

The ladies have given you such wonderful suggestions! I agree that you definitely need to find a way to teach your two boys together in Bigger Hearts. Repeating the teaching separately is going to wear on momma and truly won't fix the problem of the boys being together for the long haul.

Having 4 boys, I know what you mean about boys being silly. A few tips that have helped us are to have the boys sit with me in between them. If they are silly, they are sent to the corner and must stand with their nose in the corner. The timer is set while that child is in the corner and school goes forward.When the child gets out of the corner, he will need to catch up. If you're reading, just keep reading. Let the child know they must listen from the corner. One minute in the corner is for the first act of silliness. Two minutes in the corner for the next act of silliness, and so on. The number of minutes in the corner at one time is not to exceed the child's age. At that point the child would begin losing privileges that are near and dear to them. For my boys that would be computer time, playtime, dessert, must have an earlier bedtime, etc. Boys dislike standing still in the corner. It is VERY hard for them. If they are silly while in the corner, add a minute. If they take their nose out of the corner, add a minute. If both boys are silly, send them to separate corners in separate rooms (where they cannot see one another), but you can see both of them. We've had to do this one too! Have them say a prayer out loud after being in the corner. This was a tip I learned from a Godly mom of 11, whose first 7 children were sons! It saved her life when her boys became taller than she was!

Another thing that helps boys is to be busy. So, instead of you getting out all of the books and putting them away and finding the page and the Scripture verses or the poetry etc., have the boys do it. Waiting boys are silly boys. Assign one child to get out the books while the other is reading over the activity in the guide and setting up anything they can. Then, have one of the boys find the page number, get out the globe, etc. You can jump in and help them as needed but keep everything moving very quickly. When you assign them work to do, set the timer. Put them at two different tables, near each other, so you can pop back and forth between them. If you don't have two tables, put one child on the floor with a lap desk, or on the couch, and the other at the table. Boys who cannot reach one another are less silly. For making faces or noises, they go to the corner. If their work is not done when the timer rings, and they have been in the corner part of the time. Set aside the work and move on. The child will need to finish the work at night at a less desirable time (and at our house daddy oversees this after supper).

Your boys will soon realize dawdling only hurts them and costs them time. If they have been in the corner several times in a row, meet with them and pray with them about it. Share the verse, "Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk, or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather be thanksgiving." Ephesians 5:4 If your boys continue to spend time in the corner over many days, begin having them copy the verse as a further consequence. A verse to address complaining or delaying during work-time or during clean-up time is "Diligent hands will rule, but laziness ends in slave labor." Proverbs 12:24

For wasting time when there is a task to be done a wonderful verse to use is, "Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, and not for men." Colossians 3:23

We have used these verses over and over with our boys. and they put the child's actions in perspective from God's point of view. We rarely if ever have my older sons in the corner anymore at our house, yet it is a strategy that can be used well into the teen years with boys and one that allows them to cool off while you do the same. My younger two boys do spend time in the corner. In fact, I have my youngest there now!

Hopefully, something in here may be of help to you as ponder. I do not pretend to have all the answers, but this is one strategy that has worked so well for us with our boys.

Blessings,
Carrie

[my3sons]

Hi Tracy! There is such a wealth of good information from these wise HOD ladies here already! I echo their sentiments that homeschooling can be tough - especially at first - but 8 years into it, I can tell you that it is so worth the effort and dedication from us moms. Looking at your schedule, you are actually doing school the alloted amount of time with each child - other than science going long, so that's very good! I like that you have some individual teaching blocks of time with each child too, as I think that is very beneficial for their different needs.

I think that there are a few changes that could make a big difference in your day. To have a fairly definite, pretty dependable end time to school each day, you'll need to consistently keep the routine of the day though, so bear that in mind as you consider my ideas. I think it is important we understand as moms how WE can best handle and enjoy homeschooling not just now, but for years to come. I want to homeschool happily all the way through, and that means guarding against burnout. For me, that means I need to have school finish in a timely fashion, and I also need to have it not go past lunch. I have other responsibilities as a wife, mom, daughter, worker, friend, etc. than just teaching, and anyway, my best teaching time and my dc's best learning time is from morning to lunch. I am different from a mom that enjoys spreading school out throughout the entire day, and who doesn't mind school going very long on some days because of that, or for a mom to whom it is very important to take time for longer teachable moments and run with that for awhile. No one mom's goals are better than another's - they're just different, and I think it's important to consider how you need the day to go so you can enjoy homeschooling and do it for years to come with joy. Be careful to think realistically here, as thinking idealistically can lead to frustration and burnout. Your very post here clearly shows you would rather not spread school out throughout the entire day, as you find that exhausting. I would agree. So, I just wanted to explain where I am coming from, so you can weigh what you want for your homeschooling days.

Here are some specific ideas I had for your day after really looking over your schedule - remember, these are just ideas, so go with what YOU want. First off, I would move your family Bible time from school time to bedtime. We have done this, and enjoy it very much as dh can be part of it too (when he is home). This will also allow you to have a definite start time for school as you mentioned sometimes Bible has been going long. HOD has Bible within every single one of its guides as well, so you don't need to feel you didn't get to "Bible" by moving your family Bible to evening. I'd also start working with your boys first. They have more work to do, and if you could teach them first, they could be finishing as you work with your dd. I'd add a playtime for each of your sons with your dd to free up some alone time with each of your sons as well. I would not have your boys work at the same table. My boys get very silly and little gets done. It seems we have a batch of silly boys here between all of us moms! I'd make sure they each have their own set of supplies too, so the do not have to get up to get things all of the time (i.e each has their own art box). Your boys probably don't want school going past lunch time either, so you can have a chat with them about this new goal of working hard together and finishing by lunch time - and then they can have their afternoon for free time, for exploring interests, for chores, for reading, for whatever strikes their fancy really! Very motivating for all involved.

So, looking at your schedule, here is a revised one you could play with:
You read Bigger Hearts Storytime at breakfast to all while dc are eating. Do 5 minute follow-up.

8:30 - 9:15 AM: Ds10 has playtime with dd. You can have a rotation of things if need be (i.e Mondays: board game, Tuesdays: toyshelf 1, Wednesdays: educational computer game, Thursdays: toy shelf 2, Fridays: free choice). This playtime should be away from you and ds9, but within a distance you can monitor (like within hearing distance ).
You teach ds 9: Emerging Reader, English lesson, math, and spelling/dictation.

9:15 - 9:45 AM: Dd watches her PBS away from ds's so as not to distract them.
You teach both sons. Sing Corresponding Hymn, do Bible study box (you sit in middle, no silliness allowed ), poetry box, history reading, and give directions for history rotating box. Boys sit at different tables or different ends of tables to finish rotating history box activity.

9:45 - 10:15 AM: Boys finish rotating history box. When they finish, they could have a mid-morning snack, which would stop the "I'm starving" comments. If they are loud getting snack, they lose it. We do this. They have only a few set snacks to choose from that are no prep so they don't interrupt my teaching time with my other child (i.e. apple slices with peanut butter, granola bar, yogurt raisins box, regular raisins box, cheese stick, craisins box, or trail mix). Also, THEY need to get their own snacks rather than have you stop teaching to get them. Our boys have learned interrupting mom = no snacks.
You teach dd in another room, near boys but not in same room as them. Do phonics, math, and fine motor skills, letting dd finish her fine motor skills on her own.

10:15 - 10:45: Dd has mid-morning snack and free time to play something independently and quietly - or she may enjoy watching the science experiment .
You do science with ds 9 and ds 10.

10:45 - 11:30 AM: Ds9 has playtime with dd.
You teach ds10 his LA and math, and go over his folder.

11:30 - 12:15 PM: Ds 10 does his independent work, but probably not in his room. We have personally not had good luck with this either. When the cat's away, the mice will play. So, I'd have him work somewhere different than where your ds9 is working, but within your eyesight.
Ds 9 does his independent work. Once the boys are done, they have free time, which is motivating.
You teach left side of plans with dd.

12:15 PM: Lunch with dh! Done!

The times I figured are actually longer, so if you stick to the routine, the time would probably begin to lessen. Training each of your sons to play with your dd well, and training each of them to work together with you at the same time will be important. I would be a strong disciplinarian in these 2 areas, following Carrie's wise advice for timeouts consistently. A natural consequence for not finishing independent work by lunch is to have to finish it after lunch alone while the other dc play and while you do something else. So this is also motivating. I would take away privileges for any recurring discipline issue - i.e. our dc can play on the computer together 45 minutes a day. I take 10 minutes away at a time for goofing off behavior. They love their computer time, so they work hard to hang on to it. So, finding what is most important to the boys, and then linking losing that with discipline is very effective and gives you authority. I hope something here helps!

In Christ,
Julie

[theruffs]

Carrie and Julie, Thank you for taking the time to give me advice and help me work through this. I love spending every day with my kids and I absolutely love this curriculum, but I'm so tired!!

I am excited to give the schedule a try. Julie, in the past I have actually tried to take your schedule and plug my kids in to it, but I never could get it arranged just right. Thank you for your help... I can't wait to try what you have suggested. It looks like it could work so well. And the suggestions for incentives and discipline issues are just what I needed.

Thank you ladies!!

Tracy

[Heidi in AK]

Tracy, you'll have to let us know how it goes! I'm excited for you!