*Help w/RtR and other questions ...

[Mamochka5]

Hi ladies,

My oldest ds (11) just finished CTC before Christmas and I'm planning to order RtR for him. We did a lot of tweaking to the CTC schedule b/c we were in a Classical Conversations (CC) group and doing all of both was too much. This time around we are not in the group and I would LOVE to NOT have to do much tweaking. I'd like to do it mainly as written, except we are using Saxon 7/6 instead of Singapore. We've been using Growing with Grammar for English, which lines up fairly evenly with Rod and Staff English difficulty-wise, and that's a strong subject for him. We covered the material found in R&S 5 this past year with GWG 5 and Essentials (through CC), so I want to put him in R&S 6 b/c I don't want him to repeat the same material that he's mastered. I just checked the RtR info., and R&S 6 is not scheduled in there. Is it scheduled in the back of the book as an alternative??? My main reason for considering switching to R & S was to have it scheduled in the guide, but it seems like I would have to schedule it anyway, so maybe there's no real reason to switch. Any advice? I'm also planning to have the younger kids do the Astronomy book as a group with my oldest. My oldest would do the notebooking on his own as written, while we do the reading aloud together and I would have the youngers do other activities from the Astronomy book. I prefer this to having them all do their own science at this point.

Also, what materials do I need to order for RtR?? I can't find a supply list on the boards, although it may be there somewhere.

I'm trying to figure out what to do with my younger kiddos. My dd will turn 9 in March (3rd grade). We did a little from Beyond in the beginning of the year with her and my 6 1/2 y.o. dd, but scrapped it b/c it was too much with a new baby and toddler in the mix. I'm wondering whether to pick it back up with the girls or wait until fall so my almost 7 y.o. (2nd grader) can do Beyond with her 6 y.o. (1st grade) brother, while my 9 y.o. does something else for 4th grade. The 9 y.o. is doing GWG 3 right now, so she would still do that grammar, rather than the lighter LA scheduled in Beyond. The scheduled LA in Beyond seems like a good fit for my 6 y.o. dd, with maybe shorter snippets of the copywork.

My 6 y.o. is finishing Singapore Earlybird 2B in a few weeks and is doing ETC and The Reading Lesson for reading. I also have a 4 y.o. dd who is also doing ETC and Reading Lesson, along w/a 5 y.o. ds (doing the same LA as the 4 y.o.) They both do the Bible, Bible activities, and fingerplays from LHTH. Hopefully that all makes sense. My brain is feeling overwhelmed. I don't want to order tons of new curriculum in addition to RtR b/c that's too expensive right now. I thought about LHFHG, but it's getting expensive for everything. I do already own the History for Little Pilgrims book, but haven't used it. I am mostly concerned about 3 Rs, Bible stories, etc. with the youngers right now.

Thanks so much for your advice. I'd like to order soon, so ...help!

[Mamochka5]

Carrie, Julie, anyone? (I know...I'm impatient. I'm just wanting to order soon so we can get started since CTC is done and my ds thinks he's on some mini-break w/no HOD to do.

[water2wine]

I am looking at your post. I am not the clearest of thinking right now so forgive me. You have some LA and Math questions that I think maybe Carrie, Julie or someone in general smarter than me could answer. I am trying to follow what kids you have where. It sounds like you have an older one for whom you need to order RTR. Then you have some doing LHTH and you seem to be wondering about the middle and what they might do. So the first thing is where do the kids below RTR that do not have an HOD program home place on the placement chart and is there some overlap to combine them. You age gaps to me seem to vast to get the middle one to place in LHTH or RTR.

As far as RTR order goes there are blocks of choice and some levels within those blocks. Science has two choices and reading has some choices as well. Start with the first block. You want all that and you want to decide if you want your child to do Shakespeare. Then comes science and this one was confusing to me as well. Here is the deal the first two books come with both option one or option 2. They have two options because some families, like us, did Exploring Planet Earth in the Bigger extensions. So option one has 5 parts to it in reality and option 2 has 4 parts to it with the teacher manual. Then there are the read alouds to me those are a must but they are listed as optional. Next are the extension books. These are for older students. My dd loves these. Then you have your Bible quiet time that is gender based so that is an easy decision. You then need to decide if you will do the writing which I am requiring of my child even though we do LA with writing in it because I am wacky and twisted and it just looks so darn good. We do have ti though so she is not overloaded. Now your next choices are more LA in terms of grammar and reading. Then there is Math. Done. Hope that helps. We have found customization of LA and math to things that HOD does and some HOD does not even within several kids doing the same program to work very well for us.

I hope this makes sense and remotely in some way answers your questions. I am sorry I could not help with it all. Hopefully this gives you something to move forward.

[4Hispraise]

Hi Liz! I don't have an answer about Grammar, but I am very interested in this because it is what I was wondering myself. We are going to be doing R&S 6 with RtR too, so...I will be impatiently waiting this answer with you. The only thing I found was in the catalog it says that it is not scheduled. I'm not sure if that means there is NO schedule for it in the back, or if it just is not scheduled with the daily work?? Obviously, no help here!

Sorry if I muddied the waters.

[Mamochka5]

My post was probably not as clear as I had hoped. My almost 9 mos. old does not sleep at night, so my brain is a little mushy.

Regarding RtR, I'm wondering what other types of supplies are necessary for the science, poetry, etc. I'm thinking of last year when we ordered CTC and there were watercolors, notebooks, etc. that I needed to buy. So, I'm clear on the books needed for each box, but am not sure about extra supplies that I need/should have and I can't find a list anywhere.

Aside from the supply list, my main question about RtR is using Rod and Staff English 6 with it and whether it's scheduled. Also, (if it isn't scheduled) what benefit is there to switching LA programs to R&S. I would still consider switching even if it's not scheduled (although I'd love it to be scheduled), but am wondering what the benefits would be for us. How much writing is involved in R&S daily? We've used IEW writing w/our Essentials class in Classical Conversations and I love IEW, so I'm so excited to have that scheduled in the TM!!

Let's see..... Yes, RtR would be for my oldest (11 y.o. ds.) My kids are currently 11, 8, 6 (turning 7 in Feb.), 5, 4, and 8 mos. The 5 ds (kindergarten) and 4 y.o. dd do LHTH w/additional LA (ETC and Reading Lesson) and very basic math (a math sticker workbook for fun). They also do handwriting. My 6 y.o. dd (1st grade) likes to join the younger ones for stories, activities, finger plays for LHTH. She also does RFH A, ETC 1, finishing Singapore EB 2B. I tried FLL with her, which she likes, but honestly, that book drives ME crazy, so we dropped it. She definitely loves the sweet parts of learning.

My 8 y.o. dd (turning 9 in March; 3rd grade) is doing Rod and Staff Math w/a little Singapore thrown in, RFH Cursive, ETC 7 (but we may drop it soon b/c it's adding too much time to our LA time), GWG for grammar, Spellwell, and a little copywork from the poems in Beyond. She used to do Singapore, but needed more practice and is doing better in Math now. She likes GWG for grammar, which is similar in scope and sequence to R&S, but R&S seems to have a bit more pracice and I'm wondering if that might be better for her. She's not really doing any History at the moment. That's my big question about planning with the middle kids. Do I go back and start again w/her and her almost-7 y.o. sister in Beyond? There's a big gap between them in reading and writing, though. We started it in Sept, but put it away. Or (more the way I think I'm leaning) wait until Fall and do Beyond with my 5 and 7 y.o. for 1st and 2nd grades. (My 5 y.o. will turn 6 in Sept, so they'll be 6 and 7.) Either plan will require some LA/Math tweaking for one of the kids and that's fine. If I do that, I would probably do SOTW 2 w/ my 8 y.o. w/ the workbook activities b/c she likes that book. (I know many on here like all younger kids to do US History, but I have no problem w/ her doing the other time periods.) I may do some of my oldest's MOH aloud so the other kids can listen in, too (from RtR), but I'm not sure about that. hmmm.....

Someone may chime in that I should do Bigger right now with my 8 y.o., but I can't swing purchasing another full HOD program right now. The only one I could really consider would be LHFHG b/c I already own some of the books. I'm thinking about doing Preparing in the Fall for my 8 y.o. for 4th grade next year, but I'm not sure about that either. I need some of them to be grouped together going forward b/c I will feel overwhelmed otherwise and I want to have time to play w/my little guy, too.

So, I guess I'm looking for advice for grouping them now and also going forward. I'm hoping Carrie will be able to chime in at some point, too, but I welcome everyone's suggestions!! Thanks!!

[water2wine]

I am not using R&S but I see they have level 4 and level 5 in the LA box worked out for you. I do not see anything in the appendix for level 6. I have done R&S in the past and it is pretty easy to just schedule it in if you were on a different level. When I do that I just write it into the box or adhere a schedule to the back of the front cover. HTH.

[MomtoJGJE]

You could start in the fall with LHFHG with the three little ones.... just do the 3Rs at their level.

[8arrows]

Why not finish out Beyond with the 3rd grader? Then do Bigger with her next year and LHFHG with the then 5 and 7 year olds. Or finish Beyond with the 6 and 8 year olds and do Bigger with them next year and do LHFHG with the next two youngest.

[Carrie]

Liz,

The ladies are doing a wonderful job of talking through options with you! It helps so much to bounce ideas around and find the best fit. Rod and Staff English 6 is not scheduled within RTR but it will be scheduled in the next guide Revival to Revolution. In RTR, we schedule grammar half-speed, doing it twice weekly, in order to allow for the additional time needed for the writing sessions 3-4 days weekly (depending on whether you do the writing extensions or not). If you are enjoying GWG, you can easily continue with it if desired, but you may want to consider doing it only twice weekly to keep that subject in balance time-wise. You could always consider a switch to Rod and Staff the following year, as Rod and Staff covers so much more than grammar including excellent writing instruction as well.

With the information you've shared so far, I'd lean toward placing the 8 year old in Beyond and then deciding whether the 6 turning 7 year old truly places in Beyond now too or not. If she does, I would combine her with the 8 year old in Beyond and start at the beginning of the Beyond guide with both. If the 6 year old does not truly place in Beyond on the placement chart, then I would instead pick Beyond back up at whatever point you left off with it and just finish it with the 8 year old alone, moving that child into Bigger Hearts next. If you went that route, then it would work well to combine the 5 and almost 7 year olds in Little Hearts for His Glory together either now or in the fall. You could also consider having the 4 year old join in, depending on where that child is at in the 3R's. This should work, with a few upped adjustments in the 3 R's for the 7 year old. So, in making the placement decision it would be good to really ponder where the almost 7 year old is on the first page on the placement chart at this point. Link to chart: http://www.heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php

I wouldn't advise placing the 5 year old in Beyond though, as it is truly easier to beef up a program than it is to water one down. So with that in mind, if your almost 7 year old is not ready for Beyond now in time to join the 8 year old, then combining with the 5 year old in LHFHG later (beefing up the 3R's by adding the grammar/spelling/copywork/math/Emerging Readers) from Beyond would work.

Hope that helps!

Blessings,
Carrie

[my3sons]

Hi there! Thanks for describing each of your dc here. The ladies are doing such a good job of chatting through this with you - aren't they great? I love this board. I really like 8arrows suggestions for placement for the youngers. Okay, I've been short on sleep as of late too, so this little list is more for me than for you...
11 yo in RTR with R & S 6 and subbed in math
8 yo (9 yo in March) did part of Beyond and subbed in grammar
6 1/2 yo did part of Beyond, LA still a good fit, 2B in math, ETC/phonics for reading
5 yo doing LHTH, TRL, ETC
4 yo doing LHTH, TRL, ETC
8 mos.

Please correct me if I've got this wrong! I surely might be off here. The 11 yo is set doing RTR. As far as R & S English, HOD has an overall goal for dc to get through R & S Level 6 by the end of Grade 8, as Levels 7 and 8 are high school credit worthy. I full understand you may have different goals and respect that, but considering RTR is a very full program, and you have multiple dc to homeschool, I really think you could do half-speed R & S English Level 6 with your oldest and be super-dee-duper. Why do R & S English you ask? In a nutshell, it's complete, it doesn't take long to do, it teaches them to write well too, and it is Christian. It builds on what was taught each year. Most moms (especially at the upper levels for grammar) do R & S English primarily orally, or on the markerboard, saving just a bit, like maybe one section or 1/3 of it for dc to write. This makes it quick to do and still does not hinder retention. R & S English teaches grammar for the purpose of writing well, and finally, it's Christian to boot, which means as dc get older there are none of those annoying type sentences like, diagram this sentence: "The homecoming dance will take place on Friday evening after the exciting football game concurs on the home field." I highly recommend R & S English for these reasons.

Personally, I teach 3 HOD programs. I find it very manageable because everyone is placed in what they truly can do. 3 is very manageable, 4 is harder, especially if the bulk of the dc are not in the upper HOD guides (which are very independent and quite easy on us moms ). So, I'd lead toward starting wherever you left off in Beyond with your 6 1/2 yo and 8 yo, and finishing that out so they are both well prepared for Bigger Hearts next. I'd focus on your almost 7 yo's LA skills, as that will help prepare her well for BHFHG.

When your next 2 dc finish LHTH, I'd start them in LHFHG.

I honestly think this would be a good fit, but check out the placement chart here to see if I'm off! Obviously you'll do whatever levels of math and grammar are needed, but I think this would result in the least amount of tweaking, and you'd have 3 nicely spread out HOD guides going. You own 2 of them already, so RTR would be the only thing you'd need to purchase now. Later down the road would come BHFHG, and then LHFHG, but they more than likely would be purchased at different times, which would spread out the costs, not to mention you have one of the LHFHG, and LHFHG is a very inexpensive program (BHFHG is pretty inexpensive too). Not only would this allow you to stagger purchase guides, it would allow you to stagger start guides. I like to do this if it works out! It's so nice to start one guide, focus on getting that child going, teaching as much independence as needed. Then, weeks or months later, it's fun to start another guide with another child, getting them going in the same way. And then, one more go around of starting a new one later. I like this variety! Plus, it's nice to have one child already in the stage of knowing a routine, when another one is then added, and finally another one.

This year, I started the year with my oldest in RTR, my middle ds coming back to half-speed BHFHG (he'd done the first 1/3 of BHFHG at the end of last year before our summer break), and coming back to half-speed LHFHG with my little guy. About a month ago, I went to full-speed BHFHG, and just now I added very beginning phonics for my LHTH ds. It's been great!

To prepare for RTR, I just read through the Introduction. That is an excellent way to prepare for the year, and it gives a wonderful overview of what the year will be like as well. Other than normal supplies like notebooks, pencils, etc., I did a few other things to prepare for RTR. This past post should help with the little unusual things, but just so you know, there are not special watercolor painting supplies as there were in CTC - that was a fun focus unique to that year :
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7507&p=54777

I hope this helps, but keep asking questions until you've decided what to do!
In Christ,
Julie

PS - I guess I was typing at the same time as Carrie. It looks like we may have said some similar things - I guess sisters think alike!

[Mamochka5]

Thank you, ladies!

Carrie and Julie: You gave great advice. It seems that (at least according to the placement chart) my almost 7 y.o. dd would place in Beyond. (I think.) I say "I think" b/c she doesn't always have a long attention span for stories. She is doing RFH A right now, which includes copying some words and letters each day and a verse a week on the border sheets. She has started doing some basic spelling lists this year, too, and tries to read everything she sees. She copies the words by herself onto the white board to study and then on paper for her tests, so she is able to do that. As I mentioned earlier, she is currently doing ETC 1 (she did A, B, and C already) and TRL, too b/c she likes earning stickers for her achievement chart. I wouldn't say she is finished with phonics, though, which the Beyond chart says, but I know phonics is scheduled in Beyond so I'm assuming that means that they are just not beginning from scratch at the beginning of Beyond. Is that correct?? I see Singapore 1A is scheduled in Beyond, which is what I would do with her, so that works, too. I would do the LA with her as written, too.

Then, for my 8 y.o. dd (3rd grade; turning 9 in March), I would do Beyond, but sub math and LA b/c she's beyond (no pun those scheduled. Okay, now I have some questions regarding scheduling and Rod and Staff English. I like GWG, but it's really only grammar and both of you mentioned R&S having a writing component, too. Okay, so here are my questions. If I put my 8 y.o. in Beyond with plans to move both she and her sister up to Bigger next year, what do I do with the 8 y.o. for grammar right now? My thinking: I see that R&S 2 is scheduled in Bigger. Is there an alternate schedule for English 3 in the back of the TM? I was thinking to do GWG 3 or R&S 3 with her starting this month w/Beyond (she just finished GWG 2), so she would probably do R&S 3 (?) when she's in Bigger. I wouldn't have her do level 2 for 4th grade w/Bigger. Is there any benefit to having her do R&S 2 this year instead of 3? Is there writing instruction in 2 that she would need before getting to level 3?? Is it creative writing? (Sorry, I'm just not clear and Julie's note on the writing component got me thinking.) Is grammar/English scheduled every day in Bigger?

Along those lines, I have a question about English for my 11 y.o. ds going into RtR. Is there any benefit (other than that it's scheduled in the TM) to having him do R&S 5, vice 6 this year? His grammar is very good, but you mentioned a writing component. When you say "writing extensions" are you talking about extra writing assignments in R&S 5, or the IEW assignments? He has done IEW before, but I still feel like he could use extra help in writing. Also, what does going "half speed" with the English look like? Is it just doing it less days per week or is it more than that? And, lastly, if he were to do English 6 with RTR, where does it pick up in the next guide? Does it start at the beginning of 6 and go halfwary through, or does it assume the student has done part of 6 and picks up in the middle? If he does English 5 this year, is it the whole book, or does he have to finish 5 in the next guide before starting 6??

Hopefully I haven't confused you all with all my questions. I'm just trying to understand this last part of everything before ordering.

I think the suggestions to have the youngest 2 do LHFHG in the fall will work great. My 4 y.o. is doing all the same phonics/reading as my 5 y.o., although she is actually more interested in reading than my 5 y.o.

I look forward to your replies. I appreciate your long replies so far.

[my3sons]

...Okay, so here are my questions. If I put my 8 y.o. in Beyond with plans to move both she and her sister up to Bigger next year, what do I do with the 8 y.o. for grammar right now? My thinking: I see that R&S 2 is scheduled in Bigger. Is there an alternate schedule for English 3 in the back of the TM? I was thinking to do GWG 3 or R&S 3 with her starting this month w/Beyond (she just finished GWG 2), so she would probably do R&S 3 (?) when she's in Bigger. I wouldn't have her do level 2 for 4th grade w/Bigger. Is there any benefit to having her do R&S 2 this year instead of 3? Is there writing instruction in 2 that she would need before getting to level 3?? Is it creative writing? (Sorry, I'm just not clear and Julie's note on the writing component got me thinking.) Is grammar/English scheduled every day in Bigger?

R & S English is typically considered to be advanced, though I believe that R & S English 2 is a gentler start, and then after that more rigor sets in. Here is what HOD has to say about R & S English 2:
Each lesson is contained on a two-page spread. The left-side covers the lesson (which is to be read aloud by the parent). The right side has oral exercises and writing activities for the student to complete. Sentences, nouns, verbs, pronouns, adjectives, poems, and study skills are included.

Here is a description of R & S English 3:
Since English 3 is significantly more advanced than English 2, we recommend students in grades 2-4 to go through English 2 first. The English 2 text can be used to teach multiple students in grades 2-4 at the same time. If your students have previously used an advanced program such as ABeka Grammar, you may have them go into English 3 instead.

R & S English 3 does teach sentence diagramming. You could use either 2 or 3 with your 8yo. HOD recommends doing a good portion of it orally or on a markerboard, with the student only writing a section or a third of it each day.

R & S English 2 is scheduled in the daily plans of the Bigger Hearts manual. In the next guide, "Preparing Hearts for His Glory", English 3 and English 4 are scheduled, so at that point you'd have option. As far as the writing component, that comes into the forefront more in English 4 on up. HTH as you decide what would be best! Personally, I'd lean toward doing R & S English 2 when he's 8 yo, 3 when he's 9 yo, 4 when he's 10-11 yo over 2 years, 5 when he's 12-13 yo over 2 years, and 6 when he's 14 in eighth grade. Yeah, R & S English 2 might be easier to start with, but it gets oh so much harder so quickly, and a little age and maturity is a definite benefit. But, that's what I'd do - you'll know best.

Along those lines, I have a question about English for my 11 y.o. ds going into RtR. Is there any benefit (other than that it's scheduled in the TM) to having him do R&S 5, vice 6 this year? His grammar is very good, but you mentioned a writing component. When you say "writing extensions" are you talking about extra writing assignments in R&S 5, or the IEW assignments? He has done IEW before, but I still feel like he could use extra help in writing. Also, what does going "half speed" with the English look like? Is it just doing it less days per week or is it more than that? And, lastly, if he were to do English 6 with RTR, where does it pick up in the next guide? Does it start at the beginning of 6 and go halfwary through, or does it assume the student has done part of 6 and picks up in the middle? If he does English 5 this year, is it the whole book, or does he have to finish 5 in the next guide before starting 6?

The writing in R & S English emphasizes clear and organized writing rather than creativity. For example, in R & S English 4 which we are currently finishing within RTR, here are some of the writing assignments: Topic Sentences and Titles, Unity and Order, Developing Paragraphs by Giving Examples, Writing Directions, Writing a Book Report, Choral Reading, Writing a Story from a Picture, Writing a Friendly Letter, Giving an Oral Book report, Writing a Story, Rhyme in Poetry, Writing a Story from a Poem, Writing a Story about a Personal Experience, etc.

The benefit to doing R & S English 5, which I don't have in hand but which does have more difficult writing skills lessons taught than the ones I just mentioned for 4, would be to teaching those writing skills along with grammar skills. Going half-speed means you do lessons 2 times a week, rather than daily, so you finish half of the level one year and the other half the next year. We have enjoyed this pacing and found it to be steadily improving our ds's writing.

In RTR,the second half of half-speed 4 and the second half of half-speed 5 are scheduled. Your 11 yo ds could conceivably do either one of these and be fine. Next year, the guide will offer options that pick up where RTR left off. HTH!

In Christ,
Julie

[inHistiming]

So I'm wondering then if half-speed 5 and half-speed 6 will be scheduled in the Rev. to Rev. manual? My son will be able to pick up in RTR in just about the right spot for half-speed 5 when we get our box (I think) so it should work out well if half speed-6 is schduled in the next one...or am I understanding this correctly? Will we need to continue to do R&S English 5 at full speed this year and level 6 next year in order for him to finish by the end of 8th grade (he's 7th this year)? We school year round with various breaks throughout the year....