Need help with ds 9's negativity

[tbarr12]

I am at my wit's end with ds 9. We haven't had a day without crying this fall. I have already adjusted the curriculum to fit him (went down 2 levels from CTC to Bigger), and absolutely feel that is the right placement for him and he can handle it. But, overall, he says he "hates" school, and there is nothing he likes about it. He has always been my "eeyore", looking on the pessimistic side of things. He seems to be kind of a fearful and anxious kid. He's always been super-sensitive (kind of like me!), wearing his feelings on his sleeve. He is not angry or uncooperative during school - just unhappy. He esp. tends to cry during Math. I'm using R&S 4, and have no intentions of changing (I've changed many times, and have finally settled on this for all my kids). But if he has trouble with even one problem, he cries, rather than just taking it calmly and asking for help. Of course, this pretty much sets up a chain of negative reactions between us, because I have almost no patience left with him, so school is just generally a negative experience for us both almost every day.

I should say that, outside of school, he is a sweet, polite, cooperative boy. When he's building Legos, or with his friends, he is just fine. But, during school hours, he is so burdened. It almost seems that he's made up his mind to hate school, and he won't even give it a chance.

I can't figure out if this is a discipline issue, or an issue that needs a psychologist! Does he need to be disciplined into a better attitude, or is there something else going on? I should also say that right now he's being treated for allergies and reflux (not very successfully, so far). He's had a "lump" in his throat complaint for several months, but the medicine isn't helping as much as I'd hoped. It results in an almost constant snort which is about to make all of us crazy! So this has been a very stressful year. It's really surprising, since in general he is my most cooperative kid.

I know I'm making myself very vulnerable, sharing this with a group of ladies I don't even know. perhaps this is inappropriate, but just in case there might be someone out there with a similar experience, I sure could use the advice. I am also pursuing the treatments for reflux, and if that doesn't work, I may end up pursuing whether this could be a tic or anxiety issues. But I still don't know how to deal with the negativity in school issue. Thanks so much.

[Happy2bMommyof3]

Hi, I want to recommend a book that I have been reading by John Rosemond called Parenting by the Book. He is a psychologist who does 'not use psychology if that makes sense. I have recommended it 3 times or so lately on this board, so if you've read about it I am sorry. I can't say enough good about it. I would definitely sa you have a discipline issue, especially since he is jovial when he is doing what he wants to do. Also, about the reflux, I have Barrett's Esophagus and I had surgery to "repair" it many moons ago to no avail. I would have been living on anti heartburn meds had I not learned to deal with it naturally. Sugar makes it worse believe it or not!..also caffeine and citrus (you probably know about those irritants)... And if I do have heartburn from time to time I'll mix 2 tbsp of Apple Cider Vinegar with 1/2 tsp of baking soda in a cup of warm water and that fixes it. It sounds gross, but it works for me and my Barrett's is severe.

Hope some of this may help!!!

[Tansy]

I think your unbelievably perceptive Mom! You know how you feel when you have heart burn and sickness. Yucky!

Yet ds has what sounds like a chronic illness. Yes it stinks but yes you have to live with it like millions of others. But they get so hyper aware and its the little things that over whelm them. I have been so happy with the 50% Math thing My Therapist told me to do. I do one of her problems she does the next. over and over again.

I thought she was Nutz! I started by making up my own problems so dd had to do her whole page.. but when I was lazy one day and just did every other one like I was told to. She actually became happy while doing math!!!! Much less overwhelmed. In fact today was the first day back to homeschooling from P/S and she was so fine. Math was a breeze.

BTW my therapist is a nurodevelopmetal one not a psychology type. She's a Christian who just helps families with kids who are having learning difficulties. I love her to pieces!

[Lynnw]

I think your unbelievably perceptive Mom! You know how you feel when you have heart burn and sickness. Yucky!

Yet ds has what sounds like a chronic illness. Yes it stinks but yes you have to live with it like millions of others. But they get so hyper aware and its the little things that over whelm them. I have been so happy with the 50% Math thing My Therapist told me to do. I do one of her problems she does the next. over and over again.

I thought she was Nutz! I started by making up my own problems so dd had to do her whole page.. but when I was lazy one day and just did every other one like I was told to. She actually became happy while doing math!!!! Much less overwhelmed. In fact today was the first day back to homeschooling from P/S and she was so fine. Math was a breeze.

BTW my therapist is a nurodevelopmetal one not a psychology type. She's a Christian who just helps families with kids who are having learning difficulties. I love her to pieces!

What a great idea! I think any dc would feel like you were in the battle with him/her if you were doing the math in this way.

The other thought that came to my mind, since he is otherwise compliant, is to find a couple of encouraging Bible verses to remind him of the importance of persevering. I know when I don't feel good I have a hard time making myself do harder jobs, but if his heart is in the right place some encouraging Bible verses might steer him back to working hard and reaping the satisfaction of a job well done.

You have my sympathies. The snorting would drive me a little nuts too. Praying for you for an extra measure of patience so you can come along side your son and he will sense that you are on his side in this trial.

[John'smom]

I am at my wit's end with ds 9. We haven't had a day without crying this fall. I have already adjusted the curriculum to fit him (went down 2 levels from CTC to Bigger), and absolutely feel that is the right placement for him and he can handle it. But, overall, he says he "hates" school, and there is nothing he likes about it. He has always been my "eeyore", looking on the pessimistic side of things. He seems to be kind of a fearful and anxious kid. He's always been super-sensitive (kind of like me!), wearing his feelings on his sleeve. He is not angry or uncooperative during school - just unhappy. He esp. tends to cry during Math. I'm using R&S 4, and have no intentions of changing (I've changed many times, and have finally settled on this for all my kids). But if he has trouble with even one problem, he cries, rather than just taking it calmly and asking for help. Of course, this pretty much sets up a chain of negative reactions between us, because I have almost no patience left with him, so school is just generally a negative experience for us both almost every day.

I should say that, outside of school, he is a sweet, polite, cooperative boy. When he's building Legos, or with his friends, he is just fine. But, during school hours, he is so burdened. It almost seems that he's made up his mind to hate school, and he won't even give it a chance.

I've been trying to decide whether I should reply since yesterday, but in the part where I quoted you above, it just stuck out to me that your ds seems to be a melancholy temperament. No excuse for bad behavior, but it explains the fearful/anxious, super-sensitive, burdened, etc. Plus the crying sounds like perfectionism to me. He knows he's not going to get everything right and this weighs him down. I could be totally wrong. None of this is an excuse for bad behavior, but to be looked upon as a way to help your ds' character. A Melancholy has so many positive attributes too, you are mainly seeing the negative ones right now. I'm sure if you list your ds' positive qualities you would find them on a list for positives of a melancholy. I'll send you a pm with two links (not sure I'm supposed to link them here)to read up on the melancholy temperament if you're interested. One of the articles even says the following: "Who is the most famous Melancholy in the cartoon world? That's easy! It's Eeyore! (Winnie the Poo's slow taking, self deprecating friend!)" Just as your described your ds. Again, I don't want to sound like I'm making excuses for your ds and saying, "Oh, well, this is the way he was created." I just thought it would be a help to know the info when you formed your plan of attack. I thought I'd leave you with a positive list for a melancholy.
analytical
calm
caring
considerate
deep
detailed
even-tempered
helpful
idealistic
intuitive
loyal
organized
perfectionist
persistent
respectful
self-sacrificing
sensitive
understanding
visionary
Do you see your ds there? Praying for wisdom for you.

[countrymom]

I've been trying to decide whether I should reply since yesterday, but in the part where I quoted you above, it just stuck out to me that your ds seems to be a melancholy temperament. No excuse for bad behavior, but it explains the fearful/anxious, super-sensitive, burdened, etc. Plus the crying sounds like perfectionism to me.

This could have been my post as well, I just didn't get back to the board. I have a STRONG melancholic and after reading a book on children and temperaments, I am much more able to guide him through school and life in general. A strong melancholic cannot just jump into something, he must understand what he is doing and the path must be clear to him BEFORE he can begin.One example was the action rhymes in Little Hearts. When we first started, his behavior was both perplexing and irritating to me. I could not figure out why a 5 yr old would not enjoy doing the action rhymes and it seemed as though he was being stubborn and uncooperative. I thought I already had a school problem on my hands at age 5 . After reading the book, I changed my approach and allowed him to watch me do the action rhyme the first day, at least say it with me the 2nd day and begin to participate the 3rd day. It wasn't long before he was participating on the first day to some extent, he just had to understand what action rhymes were all about before he could do them. Melancholics do have perfectionist tendencies and need order in their lives. My son also has a great need to know what is happening and falls apart easily when variance arises. Obviously this can make school stressful, as school involves continual change as one skill is mastered and another is introduced, etc. I have adjusted my teaching style for my son and it has really helped our schooling. I do set expectations for behavior for school, and I remind him of those expectations when he has trouble. I will stop school if I see either of my children are not being respectful, acting silly with lack of self-control (not the problem here), or not doing their best work. If that happens they sit at the table until I decide they are ready to begin again. Maybe this will help, I will be praying for you. The book was Personality Plus for Parents by Florence Littauer.

[tbarr12]

I really appreciate everyone's replies. If nothing else, they make me feel not so alone in this! I think I need to read that book. I absolutely believe my son is a melancholy, as am I, but I have the advantage of years in handling my melancholy tendencies. Some of the things you said about melancholies really rang true for him in general - his need for order, to know what's ahead. I should also say that, outside of school, he is my sweetest, most compliant of the 3! Today I did insist that he have a snack mid-morning with protein, and give him a couple of good-sized breaks. That seemed to help, but he still became very anxious at math time.

I think there are a lot of ways I can approach this - from the medical standpoint to possibly a neurologist if we think he may have a tic (that is feeling like more and more of a possiblity to me, as the medicine seems to be doing no good). Encouraging him is very important - he gets so down about his snorting. And reading the book to understand his personality. All of these will keep me busy for awhile! Thanks so much for the kind words, input, and any prayers. It has been really tough this fall. In addition, my youngest dd has had a couple of seizures recently, so we are actually seeing a pediatric neurologist next week! I guess I'll use that opportunity to pick his brain about how to get my son "diagnosed", if that's necessary. thanks again, all.

[kiloyd]

My son is 9 also and we are doing Preparing. Our first day this year was awful. So I told him he would earn a point for each day there was no tantruming and after 5 points I'd take him to Riteaid to pick any candy he wanted. It worked!

I then listed a few things and their point value, like candy 5 pts, skipping one subject 10 pts, Monkey Joes 30 pts. It has been very helpful, yesterday he chose to skip math and use 10 of his 19 pts. Today he did not get a point because he whined and whined and whined about doing math.

Maybe you could do something like that.

katherine
ds 9 Preparing
dd newly 6 LHFHG
dd 3

[my3sons]

Such good ideas here! My dc have reflux, my youngest has the most severe case of it. I would definitely pursue medication for it, and I'm a "no medications" kind of gal usually. It has done wonders for our youngest! If your ds is uncontrollably snorting, he probably is miserable about it. Plus, he knows he is annoying everyone around him but cannot help it. Poor little guy! Prevacid and Carafate have done wonders for my sons. My oldest dc were able to stop taking the meds now and do fine for the most part. They have each stopped eating their reflux triggers on their own - these are some of them: fries, ketchup, chocolate, maple syrup, too much sugar, fried food, spaghetti sauce, tomato soup, salsa, orange juice. We can't have pizza for supper, seems to be okay for lunch. It also helps to have snacks 2 times a day along with 3 moderately sized meals, rather than just 3 big meals. A very full stomach can kick reflux into gear. We have to have supper early, like at 5:30 PM. Otherwise, laying down flat for bedtime on a fuller stomach causes major reflux. Risers to elevate the head of the bed help so much too! They are inexpensive - at Walmart I believe there around $10.

As far as the Eeyore personality, sometimes it helps to give them a different response to say in its place, and have them practice saying it. I have let my ds (who is more of an Eeyore) know when he is sounding Eeyore-like. He doesn't really know when he's doing it, but if I repeat what he said in an Eeyore voice and ask who that sounds like? He recognizes it and wants to change it. For example when he says, "I didn't get the donut I liked", I have him say as a follow-up, "But I'm so glad I got a donut instead of oatmeal like usual!" We've been doing this for so long, that he'll say the Eeyore-type thing yet, but then he'll follow it up with a smile and a more cheerful comment! This has been great and alleviates the need for me to ask him for a more cheerful attitude. Just yesterday he said, "I wanted to play longer with the cousins," then he paused, got a big grin on his face and followed it with, "But I AM glad for the five hours we played with them today, Mom!"

As far as the math, I'd set the timer for 20 minutes and stop when it rings. I'd let him know that as long as he gives a "can-do-it" attitude for the whole 20 minutes and does not waste time on tears, he is done when it rings. My sister did this and got further in math in 20 minutes a day than she'd been getting in 45 minutes. After awhile, when ds has established this good habit of attention and attitude in math, you can increase it to 25 minutes, and finally to 30 minutes.

There are some comments that deserve discipline. "I hate_____" (anything really) when said in relation to a task we are asking our dc to do, at least IMO, counts as a comment deserving immediate discipline. What will they do when they have a job someday and dislike one part of it? Shouting out they hate it won't get them very far. So, I'd let him know that he may not say that anymore. If he does, "x' will be his consequence, and then follow through with it any time he says that. He will eventually replace the habit with a better one.

I think our 9, 10, 11 yo boys begin to go through emotional times just as girls do, but because they are boys, we are a bit taken aback by it. When tears have come over my ds unexpectedly, I just quietly advise him to go to another room and collect himself, and when he's ready to come back, then we'll talk. If he takes a very long time, I call for him to come back. We discuss ways to handle things when we are emotional - often times, we talk about how making a mistake is something that happens in school for everyone. If we stop to be sad about every mistake, we will get very little learning done, just as if we stopped to celebrate every correct problem we would get very little done. Moving on through school at a steady pace is what we are aiming for - this seems to help him. A big long hug helps so much, and a comment about how proud I am of his work in school!

I try to mentally note how many corrections I give, and then try to give 3 times as many sincere compliments or positive comments. This helps keep me positive in how I interact with my dc. As far as the snorting, I'd try to ignore it entirely. If you feel yourself getting agitated by it, remind yourself of a habit you may have that others find annoying that you cannot control (I do this myself and find it very effective!). Choosing what things are discipline worthy and what things are beyond his control, not worth bringing up, or are just nit-picky is a huge task we have as homeschool moms! I know I continue to work on this daily. I hope something here helps, but know you can make a real difference here in him just by making one change at a time and persevering with it until you see results!

In Christ,
Julie

[tnahid]

Ah, what is it with these 9 year old sons!? They are precious, but they are a super challenge, aren't they? Well, my 9 year old has been a challenge from the womb! He kicked and kicked and kicked, and has never stopped! I definitely think he is a melancholy or possibly a phlegmatic/choleric. He is definitely choleric personality, super bossy, but is also a very negative person. So what would that make him? Oh, he's not always negative, but generally, he leans more to that side. He is also perfectionistic, anxious over math especially and has many food allergies. There must be a pattern here.

So, one simple thing that helps him is for me to come in and massage his shoulders or back or head, and lots of hugs or tickling throughout the day. His love language is also TOUCH and is mine. I forget this often, but when I do remember, it makes a world of difference! I am a choleric/sanguine personality, so I am always looking at the positive, but also tend toward bossiness. Together, we are two cholerics with an opposite outlook on how we deal with life. WOW! Explosions! It is not easy, but I think lots of hugs, touch, and encouragement helps.

I will tell you that my ds is one grade behind (he is on 3rd level) and honestly, I don't think he could handle being higher than that right now, simply because of his anxiety issues. I do give him natural supplements that help tremendously : GABA, Concentrate, True Calm. You can research these at www.iherb.com That is where I get them. They are safe and natural and I take them as well. They really help take the edge off of anxiety and tension. If your son is melancholy, he could also tend to depression very easily. Magnesium at night helps them sleep better and makes them calmer about things.

Starting your day with prayer with your children is very important and awesome. This morning, for example, we all laid in the floor face down and prayed and worshipped the Lord before we began our day. I prayed over each of my children individually, which is something my 9 year old loves especially. Without the grace of the Lord upon our lives in these learning years, I could not make it through, but God has a plan for them and it is very unique and suited for their personalities. We must walk by faith in His promises for ourselves as well as our children.

Bless you sister!

Tina

[my3sons]

So, one simple thing that helps him is for me to come in and massage his shoulders or back or head, and lots of hugs or tickling throughout the day. His love language is also TOUCH and is mine. I forget this often, but when I do remember, it makes a world of difference! ...
Starting your day with prayer with your children is very important and awesome. ...

Two excellent pieces of advice I've found to help in our home too! My child who leans toward melacholy's love language is also touch. We cuddle with fuzzy blanket on the couch during readings. I do rub his back or shoulders when I walk past him, etc. These things make a BIG difference for him! We also started a prayer journal. My oldest ds leads the prayer at breakfast, and my middle ds does at lunch. Praying for our homeschooling is on the list - it's a little thing, but I think it makes them want it to go well. They took time to pray about it, so they want it to go well.

In Christ,
Julie