pacing and questions about CTC

[Annette]

Hi Ladies!

I'm new to HOD and am returning to homeschooling after 5 years of having my kids in public school. My two oldest boys are still in public school. They had absolutely NO DESIRE to return home. My oldest is a senior in high school,and my next son is in 8th grade. But I am teaching my youngest three at home. We're now in our third week on unit 3 in CTC for my 11 year old and 9 year old daughters. I have them working on the same guide because my 9 year old is VERY bright,usually scoring in the high nineties percentile on achievement tests in public school. Also buying two completely different programs and all the supplemental materials all at once would have just put a real strain on our budget. They're also both doing WWTB and R&S 4 for language arts. I'm doing DITHOR level 4/5 with my 9 year old and 6/7/8 with my 11 year old. They're both very strong independent readers. They both tested pretty low on the Singapore placement test, so I have both of them in 3A. I also have a 4 and a half year old boy who is a bit delayed (preemie,5th kid, boy) but is following all the appropriate developmental steps in the right sequence, but just about a year later than the average bear. I have him doing LHTH,which seems just about right for him developmentally. So that's where we're at.

Now here are my challenges. The girls' school work takes so long that sometimes we can't get it all done and I have days when I don't even get time to work with my son, or when I do we never end up doing a whole day's worth of stuff. I don't think the work is necessarily too hard for the girls. They do seem to be getting it as far as concepts go. It just takes a long time,and they're starting to complain about the work load, especially on days when I'm trying to catch up from what we missed the day (or two) before, and we have to double up. They like the Singapore math. They HATE the R&S Grammar and the WWTB. They like the books they're reading for DITHOR,but don't like the workbooks. Also I did order the extension books for my 11 year old,but we just don't get to them cuz we often don't even finish our regular stuff. My 9 year old just finished second grade last year in public school, but it was WAY too easy for her. I definitely think she has the ability to do 4th grade work, but she still hasn't learned cursive, so I need to find some kind of handwriting supplement to do with her as well. Right now, I'm just having her print all her work.

I don't want to switch to a lower guide. Right now that's just not an option for us financially. I keep reading about people who are doing things at half speed,and I'm thinking that might be a good idea for us since my girls are pretty young for CTC anyway,so we really wouldn't have to finish it in a year,although I would like to keep normal speed with the math since they're in such a low level. But if possible I'd also like to do a 4 day week so we can have Fridays for stuff like going to the park or working on home skills or going on an outing or whatever. But HOW exactly do you do half speed with CTC? Are there some subjects you still do every day? What specifically does it look like as far as which lessons you do on each day? Could someone give me a concrete example? Also can anyone give any recommendations for a cursive writing curriculum? Any thoughts or advice regarding pacing or anything else would be greatly appreciated. We are enjoying CTC,but we're just not getting it all done,and my girls are starting to burn out. I welcome any and all tweaking suggestions.

Thanks so much!

Annette

[Tree House Academy]

The first thing that I noticed in your post is that you said your 9 y/o dd is doing CTC after coming out of 2nd grade in ps. Wow! Even if she is really bright, there is little liklihood that a child with 2nd grade skills would be able to do a guide like CTC - especially to do it independently as it should be done. Did she fit into CTC on the placement chart? If not, you may really want to do some tweeking to make the work more age appropriate for her (like require less writing, have her work more with you, etc). Or...like you said, doing it half speed. The only problem I see with doing it half speed is the way English and writing are scheduled. They are not every day things and I am not sure how you would break that up for them.

For your older dd: My son is in 6th grade and is also 11. We do CTC as written and he does the majority of it independently. I asked back when I started him in CTC if he needed extensions since he was doing 6th grade and was told that his age (11) meant he fell in with doing the guide as written and that he did not need the extensions. Maybe this is also the case for your older dd. Does your older dd need half-speed or would she be able to do the guide as written independently while you work with her younger sister?

What are you finding is taking so long? Are the girls taking a long time to read their history assignments? Are you assigning every single question in R&S English?

Just as a guage to how long CTC should take ('round about anyway), my ds11 started his CTC work this morning at 9AM and finished at 1PM. This is the norm for us. Independently, he starts with math, then does all 3 history boxes (reading, project, independent), Bible Quiet Time, Poetry, Science, DITHR. Then he works with me doing R&S English/Dictation or Write with the Best, Storytime, Bible/Geography, and we actually do French too (which is not part of HOD).

[LynnH]

I do think you will have to tweak quite a bit for the 9 year old. I would look at shortening the writing requirements for her. I also have an 11 year old 6th grader doing the program and it is a perfect fit for him. He does not do the extensions. He does most of the independent boxes on his own with just a little help for the science experiments. I notice that with DITHOR you are using the 6/7/8 book for your 11 year old. You could back it down to the 4/5 book and it might not seem as overwhelming to her. We do the 4/5 book and find it a good fit. You could really do the 2/3 book with your 9 year old.

As far as Write With the Best, what part don't they like? I have a very reluctant writer and he finds the lessons short and manageable. The one lesson where he had to find all the nouns, adjectives, adverbs and verbs we modified based on Carrie's suggestions and just had him see how many he could find in 10-15 minutes. That worked very well.

Also Carrie recommends doing Rod and Staff mostly orally. Are you doing this? As far as cursive I know many have used Cheerful Cursive per Carrie's recommendation and love it.

The only other thing I was wondering is if they are able to read the History Reading on their own or are you having to read it out loud to them. That will definitely add a lot of time to your day.

[Tree House Academy]

Just wanted to jump back in and mention that my ds11 is doing the DITHR 6/7/8, but that is after completing 4/5. In 6/7/8, DITHR is really very independent. I haven't had to do much more than check his work and ask a few questions when prompted by the guide. Very simple.

[pjdobro]

I can't help with the CTC questions, but I did want to say that my dc, age 8 and in third grade, have just started Cheerful Cursive this year and are really enjoying it. It moves slowly enough, doesn't require very much time, and the characters in it are adorable. They are looking forward to "meeting" the other characters as they learn the rest of the letters. I am amazed at how much cursive they are now able to read after not quite 3 weeks of doing Cheerful Cursive. It looks so simple, but so far it is producing solid results.

[my3sons]

We did CTC last year and enjoyed it thoroughly, and I'm glad you are enjoying parts of it as well. It also sounds like your little guy doing LHTH is thriving - which is great! What excellent advice you've received here already! I'd love to hear your responses to the questions posed, and I also have a few more things to ask. Placement is very important and can make a huge difference in how things go for dc. I am wondering where your day seems to be going long? When looking at the suggested time allotments noted in this link, where is more time being spent than alloted?
CTC time it takes:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3765

Also, are your dc doing all of the "I" boxes completely independently, or are you doing the reading for them, or are they reading it out loud? This makes a HUGE difference in the time these boxes take. Same with the "S" boxes, are you able to go through these boxes' directions with them, and then let them independently finish out the work? If you are having to help with each step, this lengthens the time as well.

CTC for a 9 yo is challenging. My 9 1/2 yo did fine with CTC, but he'd done all of the previous HOD guides, which gradually teach skills in such a way that when dc get to CTC, they're ready for it. A child coming out of 2nd grade in ps, even a very bright child, would more than likely struggle with CTC. From what you've shared, it sounds like placement is off, for sure for your 9 yo, and probably also for your 11 yo. According to what you've shared about the writing and math, the younger child would be placed in Bigger Hearts already, or possibly PHFHG, for example. Even for your 11 yo, CTC should not be taking more than 4 1/2 hours if dc are truly ready for it - so it taking all day is a red flag to me that dc are not ready for it and would be more appropriately placed in an earlier guide. I'd guess the pair of them would be better placed in PHFHG or Bigger Hearts with extensions for the older. Here is a link to the placement chart:
http://www.heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php

There are many different things you could do here, as HOD is very flexible. I can understand you not wanting to change guides, but did you get your materials from HOD? They have a generous return policy. If it was in the last 30 days and the books are in very good condition, you can return them. I know this isn't your first inclination, but I cannot stress how important placement is to the joy of homeschooling! It can honestly make or break a year, so after really studying the placement chart for each of your dc separately, you may want to return the CTC things you can (I'm assuming a lot of it, as you haven't used your extension package, and you're not far into the year so you haven't used many of the books), and get the other program. Even if you can't return it all, CTC is a more expensive program than PHFHG or BHFHG, so it should even out. I'd prayerfully consider this, as I do think you'd love your year then.

If you absolutely are not open to this, another option would be to go to half-speed CTC, but keep daily math. I'd probably alternate doing R & S English (a good portion orally as pp's suggested), and Write with the Best. I'd keep DITHOR 3 times a week. Here is a thread that will help you see in a concrete way how half-speed can be done, just scroll down to Carrie's post which is in regard to half-speed PHFHG, but will give you some good ideas:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5431

Here's another half-speed thread that may help:
How does half-speed look in your home?
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5600&p=41232#p41232

When you get a chance to pop back here and give some more information, I know the ladies will continue to help as they are so gracious with their time. HOD is outstanding curriculum! We have loved using it for so many years. I just think placement and pacing is so important, and I want you to have the best year ever; especially since dc are just coming back home from ps - that's going to take some adjustment, and I think a change to a more appropriate placement or pacing would do wonders!

In Christ,
Julie