Dictation help

[SillyMamaLuvsU]

This is probably a silly question but I'd like to know how everyone else does it.

In the dictation instructions (in PHFHG) it says to "call out the passage one phrase at a time". Does this mean one sentence at a time or one phrase based on the way it's typed?

For example, one of the passages is typed like this:

The father robin gets food for the
baby robins. Robins like worms
and fruit.

So would I first say, "The rather robin gets food for the" and then let them write that and then say, "baby robins. Robins like worms"

Or would I say it in complete sentences, "The father robin gets food for the baby robins."

See, I told you it was a silly question but we have never done dictation before.

Also, do you repeat it if they need it to be repeated?

[4froggies]

Not a silly question! I break each sentence into phrases. For your example sentences, I would say

The father robin (student writes that part)

gets food for the baby robins. (student writes that part.)

Robins like worms (student writes)

and fruit. (student writes)

I try to only repeat once if needed (although there are exceptions). After doing dictation for a while, I have not had to repeat for her as often as I did when we were beginning. HTH!

[gotpeace91]

Not a silly question. I asked it last year. Here's the link to the thread. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4466

[moedertje]

Not silly indeed, here was the answer give to me

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6645

[my3sons]

Not a silly question at all - as evidenced by the number of times it has been asked! We do it in phrases that make sense to pause at the end of, like 4froggies' nice example. I try hard not to repeat. We've found it very important to have ds repeat it as he writes it, as this helps him remember it instead of me having to repeat it. It has taught him the habit of listening attentively during dictation (still working on that one in other areas of life though ). I actually make sure to reread the Dictation Passage notes at the start of dictation every year, as I forget the details of it sometimes, and it's in the details that it works like CM intended it to work. I'm glad you asked this, and I hope you enjoy dictation as much as we have learned to!

In Christ,
Julie

[gotpeace91]

When dictating a sentence should I say comma where there is one? Also should I say the end punctuation marks? Mine will often miss mistakes they have made. Should I just say you missed one and let them find it or should I just tell them what they missed?

[my3sons]

If dc make an error while writing, it is not to be mentioned. After they've completed the passage, then they should take a moment and see if they recognize any errors. If they made an error and don't recognize it, it is still not to be mentioned. Next, students compare their sentences with the key in the guide. They should circle any mistakes they made on the key and correct the mistakes in their own notebook. If at this point, they miss an error, we should point it out. If the passage was correct, they move on to the next passage the next day. If they made any errors at all, they'll repeat the same passage as many days as it takes to get it right. The next session should always begin where the student left off. If a student is continually stuck on a passage, you may want to move him/her to an easier level of dictation. HTH!

In Christ,
Julie

[LynnH]

You don't say the punctuation marks or commas. What I did in the beginning was when my ds was studying the passage before hand I would say to him, "Make sure you notice where the commas are, or check to see what the sentence ends with". That way he would key into things. Sometimes he would still miss it. My ds tends to miss the punctuation marks more than the spelling,but that is typical for when he writes also. Doing dictation has definitely helped with this though.

[gotpeace91]

Thanks Julie and Lynn. I'm sorry, I did mean after they have checked their own work against the teacher's manual. They still miss some. Maybe I could think up some sort of incentive for catching all of the mistakes themselves. I have been saying the commas because they weren't remembering them but I wasn't saying the end marks. My son forgets the punctuation marks alot too.

[my3sons]

... I did mean after they have checked their own work against the teacher's manual.

Oh, that's alright! My ds does that sometimes too. How long have your kiddos been doing dictation? If they haven't done it for very long, that's pretty common. My ds has been doing it for 3 solid years and still misses checking a few mistakes now and then.

They still miss some. Maybe I could think up some sort of incentive for catching all of the mistakes themselves.

I do think this is part of why they are doing dictation, and probably an indicator they are in the right level as they are showing they have more to learn. It helped my ds last year if I said there's still 1 mistake in there, keep looking until you find it. Try running your finger underneath the words of the dictation passage in the teacher's guide as you check each part in your notebook until you've discovered it. Come on super sleuth - you can do it!

I have been saying the commas because they weren't remembering them but I wasn't saying the end marks. My son forgets the punctuation marks alot too.

Maybe when he's studying for his dictation you could remind him to carefully notice each punctuation mark? Have him read it aloud and pause at each mark, putting his finger under it, and closing his eyes to picture where it will go and also listening for when the pauses make sense. I've heard my ds mutter during his study time "2 periods, 3 commas", as a way to remember how many to include. I do pause briefly at punctuation marks as I read the phrases aloud as well, as this is how it should be read aloud properly anyway. I don't do extremely long pauses to make it overly obvious, but I do read it pausing an appropriate length of time for punctuation. Is he missing a passage every day, or is it just a few times a week? I hope something here helps! But if you think of anything else to share about how it's going, we could chat through it more! Just take encouragement that dictation takes awhile for dc to get. It is tough. Tougher than spelling words. So if he's just starting out with it, he'll just need quite a bit of time to get the hang of it.

In Christ,
Julie

[gotpeace91]

How long have your kiddos been doing dictation?

We did Level 2 in Preparing last year. However, I wanted them to stay on the same passage so instead of redoing the passage each time, I had them write the word they missed 3 times and then write a sentence with it. If they missed the punctuation they had to write the sentence again with correct punctuation marks. I regret that now because that is probably part of the problem. You know how you begin doing something a certain way at the beginning of the year and it just kind of sticks? I didn't even remember I was doing it wrong until the end of the year. I decided I didn't care if I had to call out 2 different passages we are doing it right this year. They are on Level 3 in CTC. Trying to lump them together in things to save time is a temptation for me that I'm now trying correct. In fact I wish I would have put dd in Bigger last year as I think she should really be in Preparing this year but I don't think she would want to hear it all over again now.

Maybe when he's studying for his dictation you could remind him to carefully notice each punctuation mark? Have him read it aloud and pause at each mark, putting his finger under it, and closing his eyes to picture where it will go and also listening for when the pauses make sense. I've heard my ds mutter during his study time "2 periods, 3 commas", as a way to remember how many to include. I do pause briefly at punctuation marks as I read the phrases aloud as well, as this is how it should be read aloud properly anyway. I don't do extremely long pauses to make it overly obvious, but I do read it pausing an appropriate length of time for punctuation.

These are great ideas! I'll try it this year. I think your son's idea of counting how many punctuation marks will help my ds.

Is he missing a passage every day, or is it just a few times a week? I hope something here helps! But if you think of anything else to share about how it's going, we could chat through it more!

Yes they are both missing a passage every day and oddly enough they are still on the same passage having missed them the same amount of times too. Go figure. Anyway, here's an example of what they get wrong. We are on passage 3 of Level 3.
DS's passage with mistakes in red.
all plants have a root, a stem, and leavs. most plants also have flowers, fruit, and seeds. can you find each part?

For some reason ds decided to forget all 3 capitals on this particular day. Forgetting capitals is something he has struggled with a lot over the years.

DD's passage.
All plants have a root, a stem, and leaves. Most plants also have flowers, fruit, and seeds. Can you find each part?

She completely forgot the word have. This is very common for her. She left off the s in flowers. This is common also. She reads plurals as if they were singular all the time. It's as if she doesn't see the s on the end. She doesn't forget capitals or punctuation nearly as often as ds. It's usually a spelling mistake or a missing word with her.
They both forgot the question mark in this one.

Thank you so much for your detailed response Julie! I am excited to get them on the right track with dictation.

[my3sons]

Well, don't feel too badly about the past year, Leah, as dictation is new to most of us! I think I may have very well done everything wrong with it at some point of trying it. It takes awhile to understand. I think it seems so simple, we try to make it harder, when really doing it just as CM intended gets good results. It really helped to see your dc's errors, and it does seem like the majority of them are in capitalization and punctuation. I do think having them read the passage out loud as part of their studying the passage, noting punctuation by pausing appropriately, would help over time. I also think they could point to each capital letter, close their eyes, visualize it. It made a big impression on my sons to explain that the mind is like a camera, and that when they study their dictation passage, they are taking a mental picture of it. When they are writing it later then, their mental picture should help them see it doesn't look right. I did let my dc know that I would expect them to really show an effort of studying their dictation, or they would be doing it through the summer. That helped them be more diligent in studying as well. One other thought I'd had was maybe it would help to put them at different tables, or even just to do dictation at totally different times? I also made my ds study dictation longer if he was missing the same one several times. He'd say he was ready, and I'd say, "Maybe read it aloud one more time. Really take a mental picture of the punctuation and the capitalization again to be sure you'll have that in mind when I read it." I also may say, "Look for words you may struggle with, for example, last time you missed "_____", so really pay attention to that one. This has been an excellent thread as many moms are sure to have these same exact questions!

In Christ,
Julie