ok, I'm replying to my own post. I just talked to a friend who used This Country of Ours and said she didn't like it at all. She said it was very dry, boring, and contained many graphic parts. I didn't get specifics.
I think Carrie has made some good choices in Bigger. Just my .02.
Dissapointed with history book...???
-
smithdonnajo
- Posts: 108
- Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:42 am
- Location: Alabama
Re: Dissapointed with history book...???
Beth,
As you've already discovered (and I have too), in using any resource it helps to check to see how a resource is used within a curriculum and see what other books are utilized along with it before making a decision on its worth based on the book's content read out of context. With that being said, as I read the book I fully agree with you that the content at the end of A Child's Story of America in not appropriate for the targeted age group, which is why we do not use those particular pages in our guide. The thread that was linked previously on our explanation to the book will help with understanding what is used and what is not used within the HOD guide. You can always refer to the schedule within the Appendix of your guide in order to check more thoroughly which pages are used and when.
As far as the Eggleston books go, you will find that his telling of history is actually quite accurate for the length of his stories. He was a free lance journalist, who interviewed the families of those he wrote about in America to get his story straight. He actually lived much closer to the events at hand than we do now, and was known for his research. It's important to note that Columbus made 4 voyages for Queen Isabella of Spain. On the first voyage, he thought he had landed somewhere off the coast of India but really was somewhere in the area of the Bahamas. He treated the natives well and did give them trinkets and beads and his actual journals reflect that. It is an accepted fact that his behavior on the first voyage was much different than those to follow. If you continue to read and research you will find that upon Columbus later trips and his setting up of the colony for the Queen in Hispaniola his attitude and behavior toward the native people changed. So, Eggleston is actually correct in his telling within the first story you mentioned. Columbus had many reasons for looking for a passage to India. He desired gold and fame, but also desired to spread Christianity. His life is a complex one and one that cannot be judged as completely negative or positive. Since this is a first introduction to Columbus, the parts of Columbus' life chosen by Eggleston to tell are appropriate for a first introduction. The students will get a fuller picture of Columbus as we had into Mystery of History.
As far as political bias goes, all books have a bias of some sort. It is important to note that we as readers also have a bias that we bring to the readings. It is impossible to find a book without bias, except for God's Holy Word. While you can easily seek an alternative book, if desired, it is important to remember that this book is only used in the Extension Pack as an extension or supplement to the readings of Eggleston. Together these books give a fuller view of history by two different authors, with two different approaches. If you do select a different title, you will also be faced with that author's bias. When thinking about whether a book is suitable, if we credit the reviewers on Amazon as being opinions that we value, are we considering the bias of those reviewers? Do we have any idea what type of people they are or what their belief system may be? Their bias may be that they do not like Christian books or books that Christianize our history? But aren't God and His Son central to all of history? So, by removing them from history, aren't those types of reviewers (and writers) rewriting history to suit their bias? These are questions that are good to ponder before throwing out a book that doesn't tell history the way that we have been brought up to believe that history happened.
As far as This Country of Ours goes, we have read that particular book with our son from cover to cover during our years with Ambleside. While it is a very living book it actually has far more bias issues, problems with political correctness in its wording, is quite graphic, and even has some possible accuracy issues that make it tough to use as a focal point in our curriculum for the younger years. We enjoyed reading it and discussing it with our oldest son, however we have chosen not to use it within our curriculum for the younger years.
This is a good discussion and one that is worth pondering. We search high and low for the best books to put in our curriculum and are always pondering these very same things! So, you are not alone.
In the end, we are very pleased with Eggleston's retellings. We find that A Child's Story of America complements these readings well and paired with Eggleston the two give an interesting view of history. However, you may easily omit A Child's Story of America if desired. On a sidenote, I was surprised to discover a mom that had been very vocal with us in her dissent of A Child's Story of America actually ended up using the book as scheduled within the Extension Pack. She found herself highly recommending this book to others once she had completed the year. She said it had led to wonderful discussions with her child and had even led to great discussions with her husband late into the night on many occasions. So, don't rule it out too quickly.
Blessings,
Carrie
As you've already discovered (and I have too), in using any resource it helps to check to see how a resource is used within a curriculum and see what other books are utilized along with it before making a decision on its worth based on the book's content read out of context. With that being said, as I read the book I fully agree with you that the content at the end of A Child's Story of America in not appropriate for the targeted age group, which is why we do not use those particular pages in our guide. The thread that was linked previously on our explanation to the book will help with understanding what is used and what is not used within the HOD guide. You can always refer to the schedule within the Appendix of your guide in order to check more thoroughly which pages are used and when.
As far as the Eggleston books go, you will find that his telling of history is actually quite accurate for the length of his stories. He was a free lance journalist, who interviewed the families of those he wrote about in America to get his story straight. He actually lived much closer to the events at hand than we do now, and was known for his research. It's important to note that Columbus made 4 voyages for Queen Isabella of Spain. On the first voyage, he thought he had landed somewhere off the coast of India but really was somewhere in the area of the Bahamas. He treated the natives well and did give them trinkets and beads and his actual journals reflect that. It is an accepted fact that his behavior on the first voyage was much different than those to follow. If you continue to read and research you will find that upon Columbus later trips and his setting up of the colony for the Queen in Hispaniola his attitude and behavior toward the native people changed. So, Eggleston is actually correct in his telling within the first story you mentioned. Columbus had many reasons for looking for a passage to India. He desired gold and fame, but also desired to spread Christianity. His life is a complex one and one that cannot be judged as completely negative or positive. Since this is a first introduction to Columbus, the parts of Columbus' life chosen by Eggleston to tell are appropriate for a first introduction.
The students will get a fuller picture of Columbus as we had into Mystery of History.As far as political bias goes, all books have a bias of some sort. It is important to note that we as readers also have a bias that we bring to the readings. It is impossible to find a book without bias, except for God's Holy Word. While you can easily seek an alternative book, if desired, it is important to remember that this book is only used in the Extension Pack as an extension or supplement to the readings of Eggleston. Together these books give a fuller view of history by two different authors, with two different approaches. If you do select a different title, you will also be faced with that author's bias. When thinking about whether a book is suitable, if we credit the reviewers on Amazon as being opinions that we value, are we considering the bias of those reviewers? Do we have any idea what type of people they are or what their belief system may be? Their bias may be that they do not like Christian books or books that Christianize our history? But aren't God and His Son central to all of history? So, by removing them from history, aren't those types of reviewers (and writers) rewriting history to suit their bias? These are questions that are good to ponder before throwing out a book that doesn't tell history the way that we have been brought up to believe that history happened.
As far as This Country of Ours goes, we have read that particular book with our son from cover to cover during our years with Ambleside. While it is a very living book it actually has far more bias issues, problems with political correctness in its wording, is quite graphic, and even has some possible accuracy issues that make it tough to use as a focal point in our curriculum for the younger years.
We enjoyed reading it and discussing it with our oldest son, however we have chosen not to use it within our curriculum for the younger years. This is a good discussion and one that is worth pondering. We search high and low for the best books to put in our curriculum and are always pondering these very same things! So, you are not alone.
In the end, we are very pleased with Eggleston's retellings. We find that A Child's Story of America complements these readings well and paired with Eggleston the two give an interesting view of history. However, you may easily omit A Child's Story of America if desired. On a sidenote, I was surprised to discover a mom that had been very vocal with us in her dissent of A Child's Story of America actually ended up using the book as scheduled within the Extension Pack. She found herself highly recommending this book to others once she had completed the year. She said it had led to wonderful discussions with her child and had even led to great discussions with her husband late into the night on many occasions. So, don't rule it out too quickly.
Blessings,
Carrie
-
water2wine
- Posts: 2743
- Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:24 pm
- Location: GA
Re: Dissapointed with history book...???
We did love both books, Eggleston and A Child's Story of America. I am going to go through the again in Bigger for the second time and I am really excited to use the again. One thing about HOD is always anything remotely graphic or for older children is warned about ahead of time and if there is inappropriate content on a page or passage or even close to inappropriate they are skipped and the parent is warned in the manual. I so appreciate this and find it so refreshing compared to other publishers who will use things that have evolution throughout or texts that are blatantly secular. I think when you use HOD, the books with the manual, you will see how carefully selected and coordinated things really are. I really have come to trust anything that HOD puts out because they are really careful.
All your children shall be taught by the LORD, and great shall be the peace of your children. Isaiah 54:13
~Six lovies from God~4 by blessing of adoption
-MTMM (HS), Rev to Rev, CTC, DITHR
We LOVED LHFHG/Beyond/Bigger/Preparing/CTC/RTR/Rev to Rev (HS)
~Six lovies from God~4 by blessing of adoption
-MTMM (HS), Rev to Rev, CTC, DITHR
We LOVED LHFHG/Beyond/Bigger/Preparing/CTC/RTR/Rev to Rev (HS)
-
my2boysteacher
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 3:34 pm
- Location: Madison, WI
Re: Dissapointed with history book...???
I also had a hard time figuring out how to approach this with my sons. I figure I will do my own research (Primary Sources) and then find age appropriate books for my sons which show different perspectives/accounts. I agree Columbus was not all he has been made out to be. We do not glorify him in our house, rather we use his story to show 'the good, the bad and the ugly' of history. 
I encourage you to do some research of your own. Here is a website which has primary sources, scroll down a bit to the journals and letters by Columbus. Very interesting reading! Also, here are a couple good books I am going to use to supplement our Columbus studies:
Columbus Day by Vicki Liestman--a pretty detailed look at Columbus' first voyage with information on how the Taino's were treated by the Spaniards. Appropriate for small children, no 'gory' details.
Encounter by Jane Yolen--Historical fiction written from the POV of a Taino boy
Morning Girl by Michael Dorris--Historical Fiction detailing the daily life of a Taino girl.
Another book I found interesting was 'Rethinking Columbus, The Next 500 years'. This books has some good information, as well as ideas on how to talk to kids about identifying predjudices in literature. There are suggestions for books, curriculum and website. I did find this book a little over the top, ( a lot of anti-Columbus campaigning) so take it for what it's worth to you.
My goal is to show different sides to the same story and open it up for discussion, and not make judgements. We'll see how it goes.
If you are worried about biases with Columbus, be sure you do some research on Pocahontas......
I encourage you to do some research of your own. Here is a website which has primary sources, scroll down a bit to the journals and letters by Columbus. Very interesting reading! Also, here are a couple good books I am going to use to supplement our Columbus studies:
Columbus Day by Vicki Liestman--a pretty detailed look at Columbus' first voyage with information on how the Taino's were treated by the Spaniards. Appropriate for small children, no 'gory' details.
Encounter by Jane Yolen--Historical fiction written from the POV of a Taino boy
Morning Girl by Michael Dorris--Historical Fiction detailing the daily life of a Taino girl.
Another book I found interesting was 'Rethinking Columbus, The Next 500 years'. This books has some good information, as well as ideas on how to talk to kids about identifying predjudices in literature. There are suggestions for books, curriculum and website. I did find this book a little over the top, ( a lot of anti-Columbus campaigning) so take it for what it's worth to you.
My goal is to show different sides to the same story and open it up for discussion, and not make judgements. We'll see how it goes.
If you are worried about biases with Columbus, be sure you do some research on Pocahontas......
Becky
Mama to the best kiddos on earth! DS9, DS8 and DD2
Mama to the best kiddos on earth! DS9, DS8 and DD2
Re: Dissapointed with history book...???
Hi,
I wanted to point out that Pedro's Journal presents another view of Columbus. I love that many views are explored. The discussions around our home have been good. Carrie seems to have a very balanced approach with Eggleston's book and Pedro's Journal. This seems true across the curriculum.
HTH,
Sharyn
I wanted to point out that Pedro's Journal presents another view of Columbus. I love that many views are explored. The discussions around our home have been good. Carrie seems to have a very balanced approach with Eggleston's book and Pedro's Journal. This seems true across the curriculum.
HTH,
Sharyn
Re: Dissapointed with history book...???
It's important to note that the trip through Bigger Hearts is not the only time that we will be discussing American or world history, as kiddos will revisit these topics (and people) again and to a much fuller extent as they get older. For example, as far as Columbus goes we additionally schedule Pedro's Journal in the Bigger Hearts extension, A Child's Story of America's telling of Columbus in Bigger, the D'Aulaire book about Columbus within Preparing Heart's science, Hillyer's telling of Columbus within A Child's History of the World, and then Mystery of History III's more in-depth look at Columbus' life and actions in RTR.
Each telling adds more information and a different facet of a very complicated man! While you can easily research Columbus for yourself, I just wanted to mention the various times that we address him and the variety of authors that are used to delve more deeply into his life.
Bigger Hearts is meant to be an introduction to the men and women in American history. It is not meant to be an exhaustive study of their lives. While we may find it interesting as adults to fully explore the many resources on this man, it's good to note that children are still just trying to grasp the time period in which he lived, what his name is, and why we remember him. Once they have had a more thorough introduction into the time period in which he lived, and understand what was going on in the world religion-wise at the time when he left Spain, we can more fully understand the man himself. This takes place as we get into the higher grades, first with RTR and again in high school through the study of American history.
The same will be true for many other characters that are explored in history, such as Pocahontas, whom a previous poster mentioned. Eggleston tells the shortened version of her interaction with John Smith and the Jamestown colony in Bigger, A Child's Story of America gives her another look in Bigger's extension, Clyde Robert Bulla's Pocahontas and the Strangers gives another perspective in Bigger's Extension, the D'Aulaires Pocahontas is scheduled in the Level 3 DITHR set, Wendy Lawton's look at Pocahontas is quite different and is scheduled in the Girl Set for DITHR 4/5, Hillyer looks at Pocahontas in A Child's History of the World in Preparing, Mystery of History III gives a fuller picture of her life in RTR, and she will be revisited again in American history in high school. Each of these are accounts of her life written by different authors who have each done their research on Pocahontas. I share this so you can see that we will not be relying on one author's perspective or only one retelling to sum up a person's life as you work through HOD.
Blessings,
Carrie
For example, as far as Columbus goes we additionally schedule Pedro's Journal in the Bigger Hearts extension, A Child's Story of America's telling of Columbus in Bigger, the D'Aulaire book about Columbus within Preparing Heart's science, Hillyer's telling of Columbus within A Child's History of the World, and then Mystery of History III's more in-depth look at Columbus' life and actions in RTR. Each telling adds more information and a different facet of a very complicated man! While you can easily research Columbus for yourself, I just wanted to mention the various times that we address him and the variety of authors that are used to delve more deeply into his life.
Bigger Hearts is meant to be an introduction to the men and women in American history. It is not meant to be an exhaustive study of their lives. While we may find it interesting as adults to fully explore the many resources on this man, it's good to note that children are still just trying to grasp the time period in which he lived, what his name is, and why we remember him.
Once they have had a more thorough introduction into the time period in which he lived, and understand what was going on in the world religion-wise at the time when he left Spain, we can more fully understand the man himself. This takes place as we get into the higher grades, first with RTR and again in high school through the study of American history. The same will be true for many other characters that are explored in history, such as Pocahontas, whom a previous poster mentioned. Eggleston tells the shortened version of her interaction with John Smith and the Jamestown colony in Bigger, A Child's Story of America gives her another look in Bigger's extension, Clyde Robert Bulla's Pocahontas and the Strangers gives another perspective in Bigger's Extension, the D'Aulaires Pocahontas is scheduled in the Level 3 DITHR set, Wendy Lawton's look at Pocahontas is quite different and is scheduled in the Girl Set for DITHR 4/5, Hillyer looks at Pocahontas in A Child's History of the World in Preparing, Mystery of History III gives a fuller picture of her life in RTR, and she will be revisited again in American history in high school. Each of these are accounts of her life written by different authors who have each done their research on Pocahontas. I share this so you can see that we will not be relying on one author's perspective or only one retelling to sum up a person's life as you work through HOD.
Blessings,
Carrie
-
Heather4Him
- Posts: 708
- Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:56 pm
Re: Dissapointed with history book...???
Carrie wrote:It's important to note that the trip through Bigger Hearts is not the only time that we will be discussing American or world history, as kiddos will revisit these topics (and people) again and to a much fuller extent as they get older.
Mystery of History III gives a fuller picture of her life in RTR, and she will be revisited again in American history in high school. Each of these are accounts of her life written by different authors who have each done their research on Pocahontas. I share this so you can see that we will not be relying on one author's perspective or only one retelling to sum up a person's life as you work through HOD.
Blessings,
Carrie
Carrie--AWESOME explanation! Thank you! I totally agree.
I just have a quick question: You mentioned that many of these people will be studied again in American History in high school, and I was wondering if your future guides (after RTR) will be addressing American History of these particular people (i.e. Columbus and Pocahontas), if we use them for high school with your extension packages?
I REALLY love what I see with HOD and am SO excited to get started with CTC and another 4-year history cycle (as we've been through it once before in elementary grades), and I'm hoping we can use HOD all the way through high school with the extensions and HS add-ons you've mentioned to make it credit-worthy. I think it's a perfect fit for us and just how I "envisioned" our homeschool to be before I ever found HOD. (wish I'd found it sooner!)
Thanks!!!
Love in Christ,
Heather (WI)
~~~~~
16yog girl
DITHOR/CTC/RTR/Rev2Rev/MTMM
Heather (WI)
~~~~~
16yog girl
DITHOR/CTC/RTR/Rev2Rev/MTMM
Re: Dissapointed with history book...???
Heather,
While we are still exploring our history options for the guides after RTR, I can imagine that whatever we choose will address both of these figures (as they are so much a part of our history). I'm not sure there is a U.S. history resource out there that would omit them! Not to mention, we will also be seeking books for the extension pack to add to our spines and give a fuller picture.
Blessings,
Carrie
While we are still exploring our history options for the guides after RTR, I can imagine that whatever we choose will address both of these figures (as they are so much a part of our history).
I'm not sure there is a U.S. history resource out there that would omit them! Not to mention, we will also be seeking books for the extension pack to add to our spines and give a fuller picture. Blessings,
Carrie
-
Heather4Him
- Posts: 708
- Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:56 pm
Re: Dissapointed with history book...???
Sounds great--thank you, Carrie!
(Oh, and I was wondering, because I saw two different things in the catalog--is the Geography program coming first, or the other two history guides?) Thanks for ALL your help! I know you are SUPER busy!!
(Oh, and I was wondering, because I saw two different things in the catalog--is the Geography program coming first, or the other two history guides?) Thanks for ALL your help! I know you are SUPER busy!!
Love in Christ,
Heather (WI)
~~~~~
16yog girl
DITHOR/CTC/RTR/Rev2Rev/MTMM
Heather (WI)
~~~~~
16yog girl
DITHOR/CTC/RTR/Rev2Rev/MTMM
Re: Dissapointed with history book...???
Carrie will be writing the next 2 history guides before the geography one planned.Heather4Him wrote:(Oh, and I was wondering, because I saw two different things in the catalog--is the Geography program coming first, or the other two history guides?)
Homeschooling mom to 6:
Grant - 19 Kansas State University
Allison - 15 World Geography
Garret - 13 Res2Ref
Asa - 8 Bigger
Quinn - 7 Bigger
Halle - 4 LHTH
Grant - 19 Kansas State University
Allison - 15 World Geography
Garret - 13 Res2Ref
Asa - 8 Bigger
Quinn - 7 Bigger
Halle - 4 LHTH
Re: Dissapointed with history book...???
Carrie,
Thanks for the great explanations. It was very helpful to me to see where things are going. Sometimes I feel I get a very narrow view of HOD since I'm still in the younger guides so it's always nice to hear about where things are going and how the guides fit together.
Thanks for the great explanations. It was very helpful to me to see where things are going. Sometimes I feel I get a very narrow view of HOD since I'm still in the younger guides so it's always nice to hear about where things are going and how the guides fit together.
Crystal
DD 20 married college graduate
DS 17 college student
DD 11 CTC
Finished: LHTH, LHFHG, BLHFHG, BHFHG, PHFHG, CTC, Res to Ref, Rev to Rev, MTMM, parts of WG and WH
DD 20 married college graduate
DS 17 college student
DD 11 CTC
Finished: LHTH, LHFHG, BLHFHG, BHFHG, PHFHG, CTC, Res to Ref, Rev to Rev, MTMM, parts of WG and WH
Re: Dissapointed with history book...???
Crystal,
I agree that dialogues like this are important as it's good to be able to see the larger picture of how the guides fit together and complement one another as kiddos travel through them! I always have the big picture running through my head as we move from guide to guide, but it is wonderful that discussions like these bring forth a moment for me to more fully explain how the pieces fit together.
Blessings,
Carrie
I agree that dialogues like this are important as it's good to be able to see the larger picture of how the guides fit together and complement one another as kiddos travel through them!
I always have the big picture running through my head as we move from guide to guide, but it is wonderful that discussions like these bring forth a moment for me to more fully explain how the pieces fit together. Blessings,
Carrie
Re: Dissapointed with history book...???
It really impresses me so much, Carrie, that you have put so much thought into the larger picture of how it will all fit together, and also that you're willing to share all of that with us. I feel so blessed to basically have begun with HOD and that my kiddos will get to grow up using this curriculum that is so God honoring and has been so thoughtfully, and clearly prayerfully, put together. Thank you so much for sharing all of your thoughts and reasons behind your choices on this thread.
Momma to my 4 sweeties:
DD 14 - MTMM and DITHOR (completed LHFHG, Beyond, Bigger, Preparing, CTC, took a couple years off, and now she's back!)
DS 11 and DD 9 - Preparing(completed 2 rounds of LHTH, LHFHG, Beyond, and Bigger)
DD 6 - LHFHG
DD 14 - MTMM and DITHOR (completed LHFHG, Beyond, Bigger, Preparing, CTC, took a couple years off, and now she's back!)
DS 11 and DD 9 - Preparing(completed 2 rounds of LHTH, LHFHG, Beyond, and Bigger)
DD 6 - LHFHG
-
homeschoolheart
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:08 am
Re: Dissapointed with history book...???
I have chosen to use BHFHG this coming fall and this is all so helpful. 
It is so interesting to get the authors input also. This helps me that other books have also been researched and used by the author and the best were chosen. The post about King James was very interesting and makes me want to go research his life now! I am guessing out of all the book used there will be some that won't be my very favorite but my son and myself may still learn something from the book. Myself I get sooo tired of hearing about Columbus lol
It is so interesting to get the authors input also. This helps me that other books have also been researched and used by the author and the best were chosen. The post about King James was very interesting and makes me want to go research his life now! I am guessing out of all the book used there will be some that won't be my very favorite but my son and myself may still learn something from the book. Myself I get sooo tired of hearing about Columbus lolJudith-Hebrews 4:12 look it up!
Wife 22 yrs-ds 21 USMC Deployed-ds 19-ds 18- dd 16 homeschooled- ds 11 RtoR fall-ds 7 BHFHG fall
Wife 22 yrs-ds 21 USMC Deployed-ds 19-ds 18- dd 16 homeschooled- ds 11 RtoR fall-ds 7 BHFHG fall