CTC and RTR together

[aprilmd]

This is probably a question for Carrie, but maybe Julie or someone else might have some suggestions.

I know most of the time it is not recommended to do programs back to back. I am considering doing CTC with a DD9 and DD11 and RTR with a DD12. Since these are more independent programs would you consider doing them back to back?

The reason I ask is this I have three DD's, my youngest DD9 is doing BHFHG this year. She is doing great and enjoys it; she is also reading the extension books because she loves to read. She is currently doing R&S 3, Saxon Math 5/4, is enjoying writing, loves working independently and loves reading and studying the Bible. I know she should go to PHFHG next but I do feel she could handle CTC with a little bit of a challenge. I know you do not recommend missing PHFHG.

Here is the problem I have two other DDs that I did not use HOD for this year. I really wanted to try HOD with my youngest and I loved it so much everyone is going to come over to HOD next year. Now I have a placement problem. I would love to do one program, am open to two and would not want to do three programs. My oldest DD12 fit in RTR perfectly, no doubts where she fits best. My next DD11 is the challenge. She could do RTR with older sister but it may stretch her a little. I really don't want her doing PHFHG with younger sister, yet the thought of three programs does not work for me. D11 fits best in placement between CTC and RTR. She will be doing R&S Eng. 6, Saxon Math 8/7, she loves creative writing and independent in learning. She uses IEW Level A this year for writing and loves, loves it. The area she may not be ready for RTR is all the independent reading. She reads and understands well but blurs her words if she does not know how to say the word. I do plan to use DITHR next year for all my children.

What would you recommend? What would you do if these were your children? I also wanted to say thank you to Carrie and all who help her in writing and preparing these programs.

Option 1:
DD9 and DD11 CTC
DD12 RTR

Option 2:
DD9 PHFHG
DD11 and DD12 RTR

Option 3:
Other

Thank you,
April

[sted]

Why not do CTC for both of them? Then you could add extensions for the oldest? It would be nice to do history together:) coulld have age-appropriate LA and math.


Just an initial thought,
Shannon

[juliekay]

Just some food for thought..... There's a big step in what is "required" of your dc from Bigger to Preparing.... I agree with the previous poster that if you are looking to combine that CtC looks very good. You will simply have to eliminate some thing for dd9 and add extensions for dd12. Pray, pray, pray and have fun choosing what you think will work best for your family. I have reaped the blessing of combining my 3 dc in 1 program...

[aprilmd]

Thank you ladies for your responses!

It seems to me like both of you think I should do one program and tweak it some. I do have a hard time seeing my 4th grader and my 7th grader doing some of the same work. My 7th grader is very independent and advanced.

If I was going to do two programs how would you proceed for next year?

DD9/4th grade places in PHFHG (with R&S Eng 4)(Saxon Math 6/5)
DD11/6th grade places in CTC (R&S Eng. 6 at half speed)(Saxon Math 8/7)
DD12/7th grade places in RTR (R&S Eng. 6 at half speed) (Saxon Pre-Algebra)

[threegreatkids]

You have the same grade span as we do, but my dc are younger. Next year I'll have 2nd, 4th and 5th. I think when several children are quite close in age there are many options for combining...separate everyone (once some are in independent programs), combine everyone (using the extension packs), or combine two and have one alone.

Some questions to ponder:
Personality-wise, which children would combine well?
How do you, as the teacher, feel about combining vs separating? (It sounds as though you've ruled out 3 programs, which is helpful to know.)

Have you considered having anyone use different right and left sides? That has been a helpful option for us. Another option is to do more than one program but combine for the Storytime portion.

I think there are others who have done both Preparing and CtC this year, so I assume that it would be doable to do CtC and RtR as they are both even more independent. I think the "caution" would be doing two younger programs like LHFHG and Beyond, or Beyond and Bigger, because they require alot of parent interaction.

Looking forward to hearing what others suggest Blessings-

[my3sons]

The ladies are doing such an excellent job of talking through this with you. You know I am usually a proponent of trying not to teach guides back to back, as I personally enjoy the fresh feel of coming back to a guide with a year off in between. BUT, I have to say I am coming around to a different way of thinking as I get to the older guides - especially CTC, and as I am the editor and get to read RTR multiple times before it goes to print , I have to say that RTR is just reinforcing this newfound opinion of mine. The reason being, mainly, because CTC on up are much more independent guides. Our teaching time is stream-lined, as it definitely should be for those ages. So, I could feasibly be able to see myself teaching upper guides back to back with no qualms and with enjoyment. Hence my thought behind this plan...
CTC with your 11 yo and 12 yo (extensions for 12 yo)
PHFHG with your 9 yo

I love this idea for a few reasons. First, your 12 yo could enjoy the CTC extensions independently (which means stretching her with no additional teaching time on your part ), and your 11 yo would have time to really learn the skills in CTC, which are tough enough to challenge even the highest of age ranges for CTC anyway. Your 11 yo would not be stretched too much, which really means she'd truly be able to be independent with the things CTC is asking her to do independently - which may not be the case with RTR. Your 11 yo could also continue to strengthen her reading skills by focusing on DITHOR. Your 9 yo is doing great this year with BHFHG, which tells me she'd do great with PHFHG and possibly extensions next year. This would also allow her to be more independent, as it fits her skill level easily. I personally believe teaching 2 HOD guides, with dc being placed so they can truly manage all of the workload well, is easier than teaching 1 HOD guide where someone is stretched too far and another not far enough. Since your oldest dc have not done HOD before, this will give them time to learn independence with it and fully enjoy it as well.

I also like the idea of your younger doing PHFHG, and your older duo doing RTR, but not quite as much as the other option I mentioned - mainly because I worry for your 11 yo, especially since she hasn't done HOD before and may need 1 more year to be ready for the reading required in RTR.

However, you could easily do any of these options. I do think that for dc to be truly independent (as independent as the guides intend them to be, for the boxes that are intended to be independent), that a student doing CTC on up needs to be a strong reader/writer, as well as be able to work well independently and follow directions easily. I know you know your dc best, and you also know who works well together and who may not; who would enjoy being stretched/challenged, and who may be stressed/saddened by being overly challenged. I have prayed for you to have clarity about this. You have many good options to choose from, and if dc are ready to handle the guides they are placed in, I think it would be very manageable to teach several older guides at once. HTH!

In Christ,
Julie

[aprilmd]

Thank you. There is a lot to think about here.

I would say that my DD9 and DD11 work best together. That is one reason I was think of combining them.

Another thought is DD9 who is doing BHFHG is also during extras. She does all her work in cursive. I have added an additional writing program for her that she loves. She is in the middle of Level 3 dictation. She reads about the same level as DD11. She also loves to be independent. Some mornings when I am working with her sisters she will read ahead in the BHFHG guide and do her science or other subjects that is appropriate without me. Then we discuss it and she understands. This is one reason I thought she might be able to skip PHFHG.

Another consideration I have in the decision is that we live in small house and DD11 is distracted by her younger sister's work. She wants to hear the stories and be part of the fun. Her days are long because she is really doing her Sonlight 5 program and listening in on her sister's BHFHG.

Do these thought change any of your opinions?

[my3sons]

Thank you. There is a lot to think about here.

I would say that my DD9 and DD11 work best together. That is one reason I was think of combining them.

Another thought is DD9 who is doing BHFHG is also during extras. She does all her work in cursive. I have added an additional writing program for her that she loves. She is in the middle of Level 3 dictation. She reads about the same level as DD11. She also loves to be independent. Some mornings when I am working with her sisters she will read ahead in the BHFHG guide and do her science or other subjects that is appropriate without me. Then we discuss it and she understands. This is one reason I thought she might be able to skip PHFHG.

Another consideration I have in the decision is that we live in small house and DD11 is distracted by her younger sister's work. She wants to hear the stories and be part of the fun. Her days are long because she is really doing her Sonlight 5 program and listening in on her sister's BHFHG.

Do these thought change any of your opinions?

Thanks for sharing more about your dc here. I personally think it is a pretty big deal how well dc work together when considering combining. It also sounds like your 9 yo dd could probably be able to do CTC quite well and fairly independently. I have a very hard time ever thinking any child should skip any HOD guide, because they all build so well upon one another. However, I do think it sounds like your 9 and 11 yo could do CTC together, and then your oldest could do RTR. Have you had a chance to look over the first week of plans for CTC? That will probably help you double check that placement for your 9 yo. Here's a link in case you haven't checked that out yet:
http://www.heartofdakota.com/pdf/CTC-First-Week.pdf

The letters in the corner of the boxes of plans stand for "T" = Teacher Directed, "S" = Semi-Independent Work, "I" = Independent. Just take a peek and make sure your 9 yo can do the "I's" independently and the "S's" Semi-Independently, but I think from what you've shared here, you should be good to go. We can give all the placement advice in the world, but in the end, you know your dc the best, and you know what fits your homeschooling goals most. I think this plan probably does both! We're doing CTC now, and I think you will love it. We're looking forward to doing RTR next year, so we'll have to swap stories then! HTH - but keep asking questions until you find the answers to create the placement you'd enjoy the most.

In Christ,
Julie

[threegreatkids]

I would love to do one program, am open to two and would not want to do three programs.

What about all three in CtC with extensions for oldest?

[Carrie]

April,

The ladies are doing a great job of talking through possible options with you. One thing that I will mention is that the jump between Bigger Hearts and CTC is very large, so I would have a tough time recommending that a child make that leap. Preparing Hearts does a very good job of training children in the skills they'll need to be successful in future HOD guides, so I'm very biased in recommending that kiddos go through Preparing Hearts if at all possible prior to entering our upper guides.

With that in mind, I'd really lean toward your 9 year old doing Preparing Hearts next year, with the possibility of your 11 year old joining her. If the 9 and 11 combined within Preparing Hearts, then the 12 year old could do RTR on her own.

If this option does not seem to fit well, then the next choice, from my perspective, would be keeping the 9 year old in Preparing and placing the 11 and 12 year old in CTC.

The last option I'd consider would be placing the 9 year old in Preparing Hearts and the 11 and 12 year old in RTR. I will say that RTR will require a very strong reader. It will take a very academically strong learner whose familiar with CM style skills of narration, dictation, copywork, and notebooking and has no qualms about written work to thrive in RTR.

Those are just my thoughts. I know you know your children best and will also know whether it is important to combine or not. Since your child is currently thriving in Bigger Hearts, I would hate to mess with her progress by jumping her up to a program that is too difficult. You'll truly reap large benefits with her by staying the course and moving with her into Preparing next year.

Blessings,
Carrie

[aprilmd]

Sorry to bother you ladies again, this is my last question as I wait on God's wisdom for direction.

Should I consider three programs?

In the past I have done:
2 Sonlight Cores (a difficult year)
1 Sonlight Core and 1 HOD Program (a much better year)

[Carrie]

April,

I would honestly lean toward doing 2 programs to start if at all possible. Then, if all is going well and you are handling the load, you could always consider bumping up to 3 programs. We do 3 and 1/2 programs right now at our house, but we did work up to that level progressively. Since your children fall within the range that is combineable, I would definitely lean in that direction. From my perspective it is always easier to beef up a younger program rather than water-down one that is too mature or difficult.

Blessings,
Carrie