Difficulties of Oral Narration

[playschool]

DS (9) is in Preparing and really struggles with Oral narration. We have not even come to Written narrations yet. My dd (11) has no problem with them although she is one who is very attentive to detail and a very good listener. Needless to say, ds is the total opposite of her. Many times during the readings he seems out in outer space. We have struggled with this issue for a long time. Last year, while working on Narration in MFW we just gave up. I would read the reading to him over and over and it seemed like he would never get it. We struggle with this issue constantly and it just drives me crazy. Do I keep reading the material over and over to him until he finally is able to do a complete narration? Do I let him read it himself? (When he reads things himself it seems that he gets a better grasp on it, sometimes.) He can tell me some things about chapter, but not much and he does not pay attention to hardly any details. For instance, today, we are in the first week of Preparing on Unit 3 and he was supposed to narrate the chapter listed. He began to tell me that Grandpa pulled 1 picture, or maybe 3 pictures out of his wallet and they were pictures of Eve. It just becomes totally frustrating because it seems like I have to read things to him almost 3 times before he actually really listens to it. What are your suggestions?

[ncmomof5]

Playschool,

I have an 8 yo ds who zones out when I am reading and does not give very good narrations. at times. So, I feel your pain. Here are a couple things I do to work with him on this:

First, when we first started narrating, I used Aesop's Fables. These are short, one page stories that he was able to narrate without too much trouble. This helped him to see and understand what I expected from him, and it gave him a sense of confidence that he could narrate. I know your son is not new to narration, but maybe going back to something like this could build his confidence and help him see what narration should look like.

Also, I allow my children to color when I am reading to them, but right now, my 8 yo ds does not have this privilege. He has not been paying attention while coloring, so he is going to have to forego that privilege for the time being until I see him improving in this area. Just today, I read a Bible Story and he gave a wonderful narration and included some good details. It wasn't perfect, but I could tell he had really listened and tried to connect with the reading. Your son may not care about coloring or doing anything while you read, but maybe there is something else that will get his attention. I have to stay on my 8 yo ds to make sure that he doesn't just drift off into his own little world. He needs to know that I expect him to stay with us.

Also, I wanted to mention that Charlotte Mason emphasized that the child should hear the material once, and only once and be required to give his oral narration based on that one reading.

HTH

In His love,
RuthAnn

[playschool]

Thank you Ruthann! Yes, I have tried letting him draw while we are reading, but that just serves as a point of distraction for him. I have to make him sit really still or else he will draw in the air, play around with his fingers or whatever else he can find. He just can't hold still and his mind seems to be thinking more about what his hands are doing than what I am reading. I do have several Aesop Fable books around the house so maybe that would be a good place to start for now with him. I'm glad to know that I am not alone in this struggle. Thanks for the encouragement and the suggestions.

[lmercon]

I would have him narrate smaller sections of the chapter. Read only a third or half of the chapter, and then have him narrate. Children who have not been taught using CM principles can have a very difficult time with narration. They are not used to thinking that way. You may have to work with tiny bits of text until he is able to focus for longer periods of time.

I would also encourage you to model a narration. After reading, narrate yourself just to show him what it is you are expecting from him. After modeling for several times, you could then work towards shared narration. You narrate for a while, and then leave off and allow him to continue from that point. Another thing my ds likes to do is to try to catch details that I miss when I narrate. I purposefully leave out some details from the chapter. He has to "play narration detective" and add in anything I missed.

This may be a long process until he is up to your expectations, but it will be so worth it in the end.

hth,
Laura

[my3sons]

Here's a past thread that may help:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4256

Orally narrating well is a skill that takes a long time to acquire - that's why CM advocated doing it lifelong . I think reading one page and having him narrate just on that section (and then finishing the reading with you modeling a short narration on that portion at the end) would be a good idea. I'd shoot for a beginning, middle, and end - 3-5 sentence narration to begin with. If you need to, start him off by rereading the first few lines of what he'll be narrating on - though I agree rereading is not something that should normally be done. HTH!

In Christ,
Julie

[Sheila in OK]

My ds has this problem too. He is 8 and we are doing Bigger this year. We've used Sonlight the past couple of years (at a core or two higher than his grade level), and I think this is part of our problem. Not that I'm blaming the curriculum--more the way I implemented it. The readings were so long and I let him color, play with legos, etc. so he could sit still through it. I didn't require enough of him in the way of comprehension questions, narrations, etc. and I think he developed the bad habit of tuning me out. We are still working on this.

What I've been doing is similar to what Julie recommended. I am just reading a shorter section before asking him to tell it back to me. It is a slow process, but I think we are making some progress. I also have a book called 'Listen my Children and you shall hear' that I picked up a few years ago. It has short readings that the dc are supposed to listen to and then retell. We are doing that 2-3 times a week to work on his listening skills. You could do the same thing with Aesops Fables or any short stories, as someone suggested.

Anyway, you are not alone. Hang in there. I really do think it will be worth it in the long run to teach our children this skill!

[Carrie]

playschool,

Here's a couple of links that may encourage and help: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4683
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4265&p=31406

It is often true that kiddos narrate better when they have read the material themselves. This is especially true if your child is a visual learner. So that is something to consider. If you still desired to read the material aloud, you could have your child sit next to you to see the words and follow along as you read.

I agree that CM advocated only reading a passage once. So, I wouldn't ever reread. It would be better to pause after several paragraphs and ask the younger child for a narration, then go on and do a longer portion of reading and ask your older child to narrate, then back to a shorter chunk at which point the younger child narrates, and so on. It would be great for your to take a turn narrating within each passage too. Make it a team approach and compliment to encourage as much as possible. If your son isn't sure where to begin in his narration, read him the opening sentence from the passage as a starter to get him going.

Make sure to note the different kinds of narrators I mentioned in the second thread linked above to know you're not alone!

Blessings,
Carrie

[playschool]

Thanks everybody for all of the great tips to help me in training my ds to narrate. I know that part of the problem is me, because I am not very encouraging with my ds in this area and find myself getting easily frustrated when it is time for him to narrate. Patience is something I am working on. I do think that if he knew he only had to narrate on a couple of pages that would bolster his confidence instead of being so overwhelmed that after mom reads he is going to have to narrate the entire chapter. Paying attention during the readings is just something that he struggles with unless the book is super interesting to him. It gives me relief in knowing that I do not have to reread the passage again, but what if he can only give me one sentence on the entire reading? Do I prompt him with questions? It seems that when I pose a question to him that requires thinking or is subjective in nature he just says he doesn't know and he just can't think of it. Where do I go then? Is it okay to use objective questions instead? I will look forward to hearing your replies.

[Carrie]

playschool,

I know what you mean about working on patience! It is a virtue that I am constantly working to improve upon, as I have never been very patient! I also need work on complimenting my kiddos, which is why I shared it with you. It is something I must constantly remind myself to do as well!

As far as narrating goes, when your son gives a one-sentence narration, I'd likely say something along the lines of... "That is a great start. Now, tell me a bit about... (and then say the main missing topic)." I'd only ask about one other portion at that point, and then compliment his response. If he still can't come up with anything, read him an opening sentence from that part of the reading (that he missed narrating upon) to start him off. Then, move on with the reading no matter how short the narration. He will improve.

Blessings,
Carrie

[playschool]

Today we did not have any narration scheduled for our reading, but I was very disappointed because when I asked questions at the end my ds did not know any of these SIMPLE one-word answers that I even emphasized during the reading. I do not think that it is narrration in particular that he has a problem with, but it is just listening in general. I felt like ,although he was present at the time of the reading, he was just tuning me out thinking of whatever he wanted and not even giving any attention to the reading. What do I do about that? Part of me wants to deal with it as a discipline issue. Today, I gave him an extra assignment for not listening during the read-aloud part of our school day. I know that he CAN listen. It is just a matter of choice. Take for instance the other day I was reading to my kids James and the Giant Peach. He was glued and did not want me to stop reading. He kept prodding me to keep going. I just do not know how to deal with this kind of issue. When, and if your children exhibit this kind of lack of attention what do you do? I've tried positive reinforcement before but it just doesn't seem to work. Thanks!

[my3sons]

Today we did not have any narration scheduled for our reading, but I was very disappointed because when I asked questions at the end my ds did not know any of these SIMPLE one-word answers that I even emphasized during the reading.

Was this in the PHFHG's plans for the day, or were you adding this to see if he was listening? The only reason I ask is because I used to add my own questions after readings and realized that this was unnecessarily drawing out the plans and giving me potential discipline issues I didn't need. I stopped doing this, and let him just enjoy listening to the things that didn't have questions (there is almost always a follow-up of some sort anyway). My ds was much more willing to put forth an effort during the times he was really supposed to be narrating then.

Part of me wants to deal with it as a discipline issue. Today, I gave him an extra assignment for not listening during the read-aloud part of our school day. I know that he CAN listen. It is just a matter of choice. Take for instance the other day I was reading to my kids James and the Giant Peach. He was glued and did not want me to stop reading. He kept prodding me to keep going. I just do not know how to deal with this kind of issue. When, and if your children exhibit this kind of lack of attention what do you do? I've tried positive reinforcement before but it just doesn't seem to work. Thanks!

I get what you are saying about positive reinforcement - I've never been a big fan of that if I think dc are purposefully performing poorly. However, I don't think I'd give him an extra assignment, or have him redo the assignment at this point. I think he'll begin to hate that and could become even more disgruntled about narrating. The "less is more" concept is good to have when beginning to teach my dc oral narration. Three good sentences are better than 5-10 rambling sentences. It sounds like he is truly struggling with this skill, so I'd give him some grace and ask him to work on giving you 3 good sentences about what was read. I'd also have him narrate on a very short section (shorter than suggested in the plans for now) - like maybe a page, and I'd only have him do it once each session. Then, work from there, complimenting him for what he's doing right as you go.

I know this can be super frustrating. My oldest ds took to narrating quite easily, but it's harder for my second ds - he is easily distracted. I think we just have to be patient and start small with our expectations, encouraging growth over time. One time when I was sure it was a discipline issue with my oldest (because he's already shown me he was good at narrating), I told him he could either give me a good 3-5 sentence oral narration or write a page about what he'd read. He shaped right up since he could see that oral narrating was a quicker less time consuming route to showing he understood what he'd read. Once your ds has shown he is proficient at narrating, if you struggle with this then, that might be a good thing to point out. HTH!

In Christ,
Julie