Tearing out my hair! I need some advice - PLEASE!

[Tree House Academy]

My son is in 5th grade this year. He was in ps through 3rd grade and then our first year homeschooling him was last year. Currently, my 1st grader can dictate a better summary than my 5th grader can write! It is absolutely horrible. The ps never worked with him on writing - they don't write until 5th grade and even then, it is only because they have a "test." I am really disheartened. Oh, did I mention, I am a writer? Yeah - I have a degree in English with a focus in Technical Writing - so this issue really hits me hard. I went back last year and tried copywork and dictation with my son (we are still doing both). He can do those VERY well. No problems, at all. However, if I try to have him actually write something down, OMG. The spelling is absolutely ghastly - even the word "does," he spelled "dose." Currently, he is working (and I mean, as I type) on a summary for two chapters of the book Pocahontas. The first version I received was:

Pocahantas save a pale face man. he gose back to Jamestain (he means Jamestown) so Pocahontas brings food to him.

This child is 10 (as of Aug 5).

I want to CRY! I asked him to add more than that and he started adding quotes from the book...only he wasn't actually quoting them. He was making them up and putting quotes around them.

Version 2 had very little more detail than version 1. It was written better in the 1st half - the second half left something to be desired.

Finally, in Version 3, my son was still struggling and I had him narrate to me while I constructed the facts into a good summary. After fits with tears and acting like a 2 year old moreso than a 10 year old, he finally re-copied what I had written and we called it a day. I am just at a loss. Am I expecting too much? Does my writing background cause me to be too picky? Or is he just a terrible writer than needs a LOT of help? And, if so, HOW should he be writing?

Just for comparison, here is the summary I had him copy:

John Smith was about to be killed by the Chief, Pochahantas' father. The Indians feared he would try to hurt them with his "fire sticks." Just before he was killed, Pochanatas claimed him for herself. Under the laws of the tribe, this then made him part of the family and Pocahantas' father accepted him as such.

Honestly - it is 3 sentences long! Surely this is not asking too much! I realize that the wording may have been different had he written it, but the same general points should have been there...right?

[my3sons]

Oh Rebecca, I feel your pain! Rich and I received a letter from his nephew who is in the Navy, and I was appalled. There was one period at the end of it, and we could hardly read the letter due to all of the misspellings and grammatical errors. I finally figured out "prolly" was "probably". He received B's and C's in school, so we were shocked when we read it. I think that's the result of years of "inventive spelling" and little writing in school. You are so blessed to have your ds home now, and you will have many years to correct this. You also have the skills to help him correct it, so that's going to be super helpful (though it may also cause you to want to pull your hair out, since this is your area of strength). When I worked with other dc on their writing, it helped to start small - like one good sentence, and it also helped to use the resource they were writing from (like the Pochanatas book) as a dictionary reference for spelling. Starting with one sentence, that is well written and spelled correctly would be good. Then, you could help him write the next 2 sentences, writing them on a markerboard for him to copy. You can look at this time as a modeling of good writing - so you don't have to pry the answers out of him, but instead pretty much write it for him to copy, taking his oral idea for the next sentence and just constructing it well for him adding your own ideas as necessary on markerboard. Once he is doing well with one sentence on his own, you can move him up to 2 sentences, and then 3, until he works up to a 5 sentence summary. This will probably take awhile, but one good sentence is better than a bunch of poor sentences or tears.

When Carrie and I job shared together, we'd go through about 30 summaries each week. We finally came to the consensus that a short, concise summary deserved a better grade than a long, wandering, poorly constructed summary. This is a tough skill to learn, and more than half of our class needed help with this. In many cases, several years were needed to make headway. We "looped" or taught the same class 2 years in a row, moving up with them as they moved up, so we could see the difference 2 years of focusing on this made. If your ds can learn to be concise and accurate with one sentence and slowly expand it to 3 and then to 5, he'll be ahead of the game. He'll also see that writing doesn't have to be long, tedious, or time consuming. I think you'll see progress with this, and I hope something here helps!

In Christ,
Julie

[water2wine]

Rebecca can I just tell you that I feel your pain and in my experience pulling four out of ps then hsing them that it really takes three years to get them on track and even then there will be issues here and there that you will have to work on with them. It's all about the test in ps and in all honesty I was absolutely shocked when I found the holes my kids had in their education. I felt like the first year was about finding holes and trying to assess how deep they were. It takes a lot of time. But just wanted to tell you that it is not your kids it is typical. Fast forward all but my dd with special needs are definitely on track. My almost 12 year old who at the end of third grade could not carry in addition or regroup in subtraction much less multiply or divide is now doing prealgebra and I see her going into algebra with no problem in 8th grade. My others are on track as well. Spelling is still a bit of an issue for us but I feel like dictation is going to help that this year and it is much improved. Reading was horrible and now they are all I would say ahead (except for my dd with special needs). Writing is much improved as well but still needs some work. Bottom line we are a whole world away from where we started. I think three years is really what it takes. It sounds like an enormous amount of time but it goes by fast and they do catch up and even excel.

Anyway it is not you or your kid. This is normal. One thing that has helped is each year I plan a few things that we are really going to attack and get back on track. It is sometimes a group thing and sometimes an individual kid thing. And all that means is I take extra time with them in those areas and really make sure they are getting it. That has helped a lot. Sounds like you know your areas and believe me I know mine as well. Hang in there!

[Tree House Academy]

Thank you both for your thoughtful responses. I am feeling much more composed now (LOL) and have made a plan going forward to do just what you suggested, Julie. It is really tough to see him struggle this way...and especially in the one subject area that came so naturally to me.

[water2wine]

It's tough always to see our kids struggle. We want more for them even than we had ourselves not less. A trick I have found that gets me through is to pray for God to show me how to teach them in these areas and pretend that I am not teaching my kid but just a child of God. What I mean is I try to pretend in a way that it is my job and what would I do with child that was not mine and try to get into the emotion of that and past the emotion of oh ho this is my kid! I tend to get really emotional and panic when I feel like maybe we are back tracking and sometimes if I can just take myself aside and do that some amazing things come from it. I am serious on this one it is a little survival tactic I use often. It helps.

[Alison in KY]

I have a 10 yr old boy, homeschooled from the beginning, and his narration and copying would be way comparable to what you are showing.

Maybe I've left holes in his education, but on the other hand I've tried to do the best with what I've been given. My son has always hated writing (handwriting) and he really dislikes grammar and writing. I'm following a suggestion that Susan Wise Bauer had made and starting at the beginning of her writing course. Because my son struggled for so long on his reading ability (finally at 8 he picked up speed, then at 9 he really took off), we held off on writing. He's also not a very good speller. My motto is slow and steady and we'll get there. We are using Writing With Ease 2 for my son. Ideally, it would be great for a 2nd grader who IS ready for this kind of work, but not all kids are ready for it. I've seen where plenty of kids are older and working through this series. I'm not trying to push you into this program, I'm just trying to say that maybe your son just isn't going to pick up on writing as quickly, or do it as well, as others. I know some adults who are terrible spellers, writers, etc....so I don't expect all of my children to excel at it all...I do expect them to do their own best though.

Try to find the line between challenging him and not frustrating him to tears. It's a tough line and I struggle figuring it out all the time. At least with my oldest he can answer questions about what he's written, and give a narration...my middle child can listen to a short passage then she can't seem to recall anything to narrate I dont' know what to do about that one. Her little six yer old sister can hear me teaching her and she answers the questions for her. It's just the way my middle one is made, so I have to work with what I have.

Best of luck and I hope you feel better.

Alison
Alison

[Tree House Academy]

Thanks Alison. I am actually a member at the WTM forum and for about 13 weeks, we did WWE 1. It was too young for him. Maybe we need to give WWE 2 a try. Today we started "Igniting Your Writing I" and I am hoping that it will help him some as well.

[Alison in KY]

I could prob. easily still have my son in WWE 1, but we did some quick double lessons then I moved him on when I thought he was ready. I do not have him do the big writing though, I just use the lines like they are regular ruled. Have you heard SWB's cd on writing, you might find it interesting.

Alison

[Tree House Academy]

Yeah, we didn't use the big lines either. LOL It really gave a "young" feel to the work for my ds.

We have started incorporating "Igniting Your Writing" and will see how that goes.

[gotpeace91]

Oh Rebecca, I know how you feel! My sis could tell some stories about how many times I've called her and vented about my kiddo's spelling, reading, and writing. I feel like I'm hitting my head against a brick wall sometimes.

My oldest son (20) never struggled with any of this. Spelling just came naturally to him, as it did to me. He also adores reading and writes poems, short stories, and songs. I have had to come to terms with the fact that my younger two are just more like their Dad than me. Especially where spelling is concerned. I have learned to find things to praise my middle ds about before I say anything negative. I try to keep it lighthearted too or he freezes up. He wants to please me so bad. This year I have been doing as Julie mentioned and writing the sentences that they narrate to me on the board so they can copy them. They kind of make a game of trying to spell some of the words correctly before looking at them. It does so much for their confidence when they actually get them right. I praise them big time when this happens, and I don't make a big deal out of it when they get it wrong.

Your talents obviously lie in this area. Quite possibly his don't, so it is good that he has you to help him. Just keep plugging away at it and remember that it takes time and lots of repetition. I'll tell you what my sis tells me. Just keep at it. They are a lot better off than they would be if they were in ps. You're doing a great job trying to get to the bottom of it. It's super that he's getting this one-on-one help with overcoming his struggles. At least he's not getting left behind. Slow and steady wins the race.

HTH,
Leah

[Carrie]

Rebecca,

I have seen many kiddos from my public school teaching days just like this, and I spent quite a few years teaching third and fourth, and sixth graders! Don't despair!

Honestly, the best combination of things to help your son develop the skills needed for writing are found within the Bigger Hearts guide. I would definitely have him do copywork from the poetry from Bigger Hearts daily, making him check his own writing with the model so that it is all copied correctly. Begin with 5 minutes of poetry copywork done well and eventually move up to 6 min. until you finally reach 10 minutes daily. Any mistakes should be corrected immediately during the timed writing session or right at the end.

Next, do the studied dictation passages within the Appendix of Bigger Hearts, making sure that your son studies the passage first and then checks his own work against the model (immediately fixing anything that is wrong). Make sure he marks the "key" by circling the areas where he made mistakes, so the next day he knows to focus on those areas when studying the passage again.

Then, make sure that your son practices giving a good oral narration each time it is scheduled in the Bigger Hearts guide. Oral narration skills are key to writing a good written narration later. Instead of asking him to write a written narration at this point, instead have him dictate his narration once a week to you while you write it down for him. Then, have him read it back to you and underline one or two sentences for him to copy on his own.

Whenever copywork is scheduled within Bigger Hearts (for history notebooking and for science notebooking) make sure he has copied the required passage correctly. If there are errors, underline the errors in pencil and have him go back to the source (the history, or science book, or the Bible) to correct his mistakes and copy it correctly.

When you are doing DITHR, you may wish to write his answers on a markerboard, and then have him copy them on paper when the discussion has ended to reinforce the habit of correctly written work.

Each of these steps will move him toward paying more attention to the correctly written word and transferring that to his own writing. These will be necessary skills for him to have down before he moves on to the written work required in Preparing Hearts.

You may be interested in my last response to another post on the board right now, to see the reasoning behind what I've just shared with you. Link: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4595

Blessings,
Carrie

[Tree House Academy]

Thank you for that wonderful step-by-step help Carrie. You actually "killed two birds with one stone" with that post. I was tossing around the 2nd guessing myself issue that maybe Bigger was not the right choice for him (there is a lot of work with the teacher and not as independent as he wants to be) - but your description of what we need to do in the guide to help his poor writing and spelling lets me know that we ARE where we need to be! That is good! We are doing the dictation passages and I was having him copy certain parts of the poem, but had never thought of timing the writing. That is a good idea! He copies his Bible verse too. He does pretty well with copy work and is doing really well with dictation since we are on the "easier" ones right now. Should I skip ahead and do dictation that challenges him a bit more or just stay put? We are on dictation #9 right now in Bigger.

Thanks again for your insight Carrie!

[water2wine]

WOW! Carrie if it is not too much trouble could you come and teach my kids for me. Seriously copying these posts and printing to keep in my book. There is a lot I need to implement! So glad you spelled all this out. I had completely missed the other post as well. I know this is going to help a lot of people. I had done some of this but not quite the same way and not all of it. So we are putting it to work this year. I am so glad this post was started.

[Carrie]

Oh! I'm so glad that this was helpful water2wine and Rebecca!

Rebecca,

If your son is not making any mistakes in dictation, it's o.k. to skip ahead a bit. However, if he is making ANY mistakes in spelling, capitalization, or punctuation just stay put where you are and keep going. To be at the correct dictation level, kiddos shouldn't really be repeating passages more than once or twice a week.
Blessings,
Carrie

[Tree House Academy]

So far, the dictation has been simple sentences like "Dan had a cat and a dog. The dog ran fast" (that is not an actual one, but similar, I think). He has done 3 so far and they were very simple for him. I think I will jump ahead a bit - but I will definitely take your suggestion that we not start where he is having to repeat them very often. He needs that confidence boost too, I think. Thanks!