HELP! We are either doing to much or not enough.

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Matt'sMom
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:01 pm

HELP! We are either doing to much or not enough.

Post by Matt'sMom » Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:23 pm

I am using Bigger with my just turned eight year old who I would class as a second grader. He likes the materials and I think they are the best we have ever used in our homeschool. So what is the problem? It takes him for ever to complete anything. Today he was supposed to copy a Bible verse in his science notebook (a simple five minute job) it took him thirty minutes to complete and in case you wonder if it was because he was trying to be neat that was not the case. Every assignment I give him seems to take him longer than I expect. I believe that we should be able to get though a day in under 3 hours but it takes us longer than that(sometime 5). Some days I just finally give up and take up with what we have not done the next day.
I know that part of the problem is that he just works slower than I might like him to. Another part of the problem is that he is easily distracted and does not stay on task very well. I have to stay right with him and say over and over again "now do the next one". He usually ends up crying before the work is done. Recently after reading some other post and seeing that some Moms are using this same program with fourth graders I have began to wonder if some of the work is a little to hard for him. So my question is should I back off or push him harder? I am asking God for discernment and I know he will guide me.
Meanwhile is there someone out there who could offer me a word of encouragement (or rebuke) I feel at a loss with how to proceed.

Thanks,
Can't wait to hear from you.

Durea

Carrie
Site Admin
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Post by Carrie » Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:23 pm

Durea,

First I just want to encourage you. Beginning a new program does take time and often we don't hit our stride at our house until we are about a month into a new program. Changes do seem to take awhile to get used to and can cause our school day to run on longer than it should.

"Bigger Hearts..." is a jump up in all areas from "Beyond Little Hearts...". It requires more writing, higher listening skills, more mathematical reasoning, and more advanced language skills. However, even though it is more advanced, it shouldn't take anywhere close to 5 hours to complete a day. We are working on "Bigger..." at our house this year with our 8 and 1/2 year old and have it completed in around 3 hours or less each day. In the beginning, it may have taken us 3 and 1/2 hours, but not much beyond that. Part of the concern could, of course, be your little guy's slow work habits, but that shouldn't almost double the time your school day takes.

Did you get a chance to view the placement chart on our website, prior to purchasing "Bigger..."? I am wondering if it is perhaps somewhat advanced for your little guy. He would be on the youngest recommended age for the program. I know that going through the other programs first helped my little guy be ready for "Bigger..." at age 8, but otherwise I'm not sure he could have done it this year.

If you wouldn't mind sharing, which areas of the program seem to be working well for him and which areas, beside the copying, are a struggle? That would help all of us on the board to understand your situation better and fine-tune what suggestions might be most helpful to you.

As far as what to do next, you have several options. If the overall program seems too difficult, you may want to consider switching to "Beyond..." (if finances permit), and saving "Bigger Hearts...." for the following year. If finances don't permit, or if you feel that there are only a few areas that are hard for him, you could tweak the program, omitting or down-sizing your expectations for the tough areas and enjoying the rest.

Blessings,
Carrie

Ronda
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Location: WV
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Post by Ronda » Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:29 pm

Durea,
I, personally, would back off a bit. I'm guess I'm more of a relaxed homeschooler. If Bigger Hearts is the only program you have, and you don't want to or can't purchase one of the earlier programs, you could slow down, as 'my3sons' has recommended, and do 1 page of the lesson per day, taking 2 years to complete the entire book.

Alternatively, you could do the program as written, but require less writing of him.....you write most of the verse at the top of the page, maybe letting him fill in some of the words, then let him proceed to complete the rest of the assignment by drawing pictures about what was read, etc. (I've not looked too far ahead in Bigger Hearts to see what exactly is assigned for the science notebooking.) This is what I plan to do with my 2nd grader when we start Bigger Hearts after the first of the year with my 4th grade dd & 2nd grade ds. I may even use a site where you can type in the writing lesson and print it out so he can trace it.

I want my kids to enjoy schooling, not dread doing the work, so we may take it slow for awhile until they get in the swing of doing this type of curriculum. I also plan to get some easier books from the library for my ds to read that will hopefully help him understand the science and history topics.
HTH,
Ronda

Melanie
Posts: 777
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:37 pm
Location: north Missouri

Post by Melanie » Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:36 pm

I hope others will chime in here with better advice than mine, but I think Bigger is probably a good fit for most 8 yr. olds. I think my youngest will be 8 when I use it with her.

The best advice I have ever received for dawdling is to use a timer, preferably one that counts down so they can see exactly how much time they have left. It is so simply, yet usually produces results. It works for my bunch for everything....schoolwork to cleaning their rooms! You may have to work out a system of rewards and consequenses to make it really effective....here's an example......10 skittles candies if you are done in 10 min. and I take one away for every minute you go over.......or I may read 2 books at bedtime if you get your rooms clean in 10 min and only 1 if you go over.........just make the system work for you, keep it simple, and change it up often to keep them on thier toes! :wink:

Hopefully others will have some good ideas for you as well and also, welcome to the forums!
Melanie
Using LHFHG with
ds - '00
dd - '00
dd - '02

my3sons
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Location: South Dakota

Post by my3sons » Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:50 pm

Hi Durea!

I think you just need a word of encouragement here! Matt sounds like a pretty typical boy to me. I have 3 sons, and they can all be exactly the way you described. It seems like different things have worked for my very different from each other sons. For example, for my almost 5 year old, I backed off and went to doing one page of plans instead of two pages from Little Hearts for His Glory for him. We are taking 2 years to get through it. He's very happy, and this pace seems best for him.

For my oldest son, who is doing Bigger... I decided he needed more play time to be more focused during school again. He's an active boy, and he loves the outdoors. It's always tough for him to be finished with the freedom of summer. So, he has 45 min. of playtime first thing in the mornings. I was still sensing the frustration that you mentioned setting in around noon each day. One day, I'd had it... and he'd had it... and I just sent him outside to play for 45 min. right around noon, before lunch time. Do you know what? He came back in, was more focused, and we finished school at EXACTLY the same time as we did when we were trying to go straight through. I thought it was a fluke, but then when we did it the next day... and the next day... the same thing pretty much happened (give or take 15 min. or so).

Also, for both of the boys, anything that is a struggle for them can usually be overcome with a sticker chart with treats. I just draw 3-5 squares in a row, and jot what I want them to do to earn a sticker in the square (i.e. happy attitude AM, neat cursive, colorful science notebooking, 10 phonics words read correctly, happy attiude PM, etc.). These things change daily based on needed areas of motivation. I make a huge deal when they put on a sticker, and they earn 1 M&M for every sticker that they can eat immediately or save (they never get M & M's otherwise). It works for us.

The last thing I did, that helped my oldest son, is set the timer. He loves setting and meeting goals, so this keeps him on track for finishing things. The timer is a blessing with him - however, it can bring some children to tears. He is a check-it-off logical type kind of kid, so it really works for him. He's made the connection that when he stays on time, he finishes earlier and plays more too. I also gave him a checkoff sheet of all of his things in order, with approximate times. He enjoys checking them off, and I also allow him to move on to independent things if he finishes something and I'm off with the baby or my other son. He likes feeling in charge of his schedule this way.

The boys both really love their school, they just needed some fine-tine adjustments. With these few changes, we're off to a happy year. Hope some of them could be of help to you. I'll be watching for what others have to say, since I'm sure there will always be some areas to work on. I always remind myself that I liked school as a child, but I did NOT love everything about it, I still cried about this or that, and I still always preferred to play. Our kids - even though they're homeschooled - will still be a little like that, no matter what "Tricks" we pull out of the hat!

In Christ,
My3Sons
Enjoyed LHTH to USII
Currently using USI
Wife to Rich for 28 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 23, 20, and 16
Sister to Carrie

Susan
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 4:15 pm

Post by Susan » Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:21 pm

I have an 8 1/2 year old and we are doing Beyond this year. She has an eye tracking problem and a little eye-hand coordination struggle. Sometimes I feel like we might be behind, but she loves this curric and looks forward to school each day. It may be a little easy for her, but she is gaining confidence in her copying and reading skills and I know she will be prepared for a successful year with Bigger next year. Each child is so unique and I'm sure God will give you discernment for the right decision for your son!
Susan

Tansy
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Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:11 am
Location: Texas

Post by Tansy » Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:07 pm

Durea,
You are not alone We just started using Bigger. I have an 8 year old girl Wednesday was 5.5 hours Thursday was 4 hours and Friday's school took 5 hours. . And we didn't do the science part. I didn't get the house cleaned either. Its been a huge leap in the amount of work from Beyond, and I feel like I'm rushing. It takes my child a long time to complete all the work.

Soo I did somethign else... Today... we did math, (yesterdays) science, hymn, bible verse and an additional book we added cause she is SUPER interested in India (shes adopted so we are now reading a chapter a day from an India textbook).
As I set her up with her journal and her handwriting (she does this after her school work is done) and was about to get poetry ready for her... I realized we had been working for 4 hours straight. And TECHINICALY We had only done 3 things on the page!!!! EEEKKKKK!!!!

Now I admit I diverged into how to make chapatties and indian life in small villages. Also she wanted to read the India textbook herself.. which is great since it's at her reading lvl but very very slow. We also had a discussion about light and heavy not really being what is most important about what makes things float. but rather get this ... She decide it was hollow things that could float and if the hollow thing got filled with water it sank... She astutely pointed out to me the Lexington battleship is very heavy.. yet it floats... because its hollow inside... who can argue with bouyancy...

So you know what I did.. I stopped, I closed the book it will be there tomarrow. We will have a shorter day when we hit the book tomarrow. and if it takes me 18 months to get though Bigger... well it took me over a year to get through Beyond, BUT.. my kid loves George Washington. And is smart enough to figure out boyancy by calling it hollow.

We had fun and she wasn't reduced to tears. Which was the case last week.

My advice; do as many activites as you like and don't worry about finishing Day 5 on Friday, or following a "school year".. most other countrys school children year round giving them 3 week holidays every couple of months.. So when american schools open after the summer months the kids spend the first month relearning last year.. we school on and off all year, taking holidays when we need them, and field trips too...
like visiting the battleship Lexington. :P
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netpea

Post by netpea » Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:46 am

Tansy wrote:
So you know what I did.. I stopped, I closed the book it will be there tomarrow. We will have a shorter day when we hit the book tomarrow. and if it takes me 18 months to get though Bigger... well it took me over a year to get through Beyond, BUT.. my kid loves George Washington. And is smart enough to figure out boyancy by calling it hollow.

:P
I agree with Tansy's approach here. This is what I've resigned to do with my 7yo. I've given up on the Poem copywork for BLHFHG. We do A Reason for Handwriting so he is doing copywork each week, but its less than the Poems and he's done it for 2 years so he will accept that. As for Math after listening to the advice of others here, We set timers and when the timer goes off, math is done period, regardless of how much he got done. knowing it's over soon helps his focus but I do have to sit with him the whole time. This is why we homeschool, to do what's best for them. But even so, I get frustrated when days go longer than my expectations, so I can empathize with you. Hang it there, it will get better.

Matt'sMom
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:01 pm

Post by Matt'sMom » Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:56 pm

Ladies,

Thanks so much for your words of encouragement. I am feeling a lot more confident today. God is showing me some areas to work on in my own life that I think will help in our school day. I also realized that we do a lot of "extra" stuff during those longer school days. We are in a couple of different reading programs where you can earn a reward (like free ice cream cones or pizza)so in addition to his reading assignment he also reads silently for 20 minutes on most days. Most school days also include piano practice. We are involved in a co-op that has classes on Tuesdays followed by an afternoon parkday so we do not do any BHFHG on those days. Instead of enjoying this I was feeling the need to double up on the work the next couple of days to get it all in. This was not working.
God is begging to make some things clearer to me and to help me relax a little and remember that this is supposed to be fun.

In respose to Carries question about what seems hard to Matthew I would have to say that anything that requires writing more than a few words is hard for him. He loves to draw and is very good at it but writing is a real chore for him and he does it slowly and not very well. We have never done copy work on a daily basis before this year so it is something he is not used to and maybe I have been requireing to much to fast. So as a couple have suggested I will shorten these assignments for awhile.

Matthew has always loved to be read to!! We read alot of books but I have never required him to narrate back. Again something new to him this year. To say he does not like it is an understatement. What should be a happy relaxed reading has turned into him dreading that he will have to retell what he heard. I don't really understand his fear of this because he has always been good at answering any questins I ask him after we read but if I ask him to retell a portion of the reading or tell all he learned about something he breaks down and says he's not good at it.

Math is another area he works slowly in. He seems to think mathmatically and is very logical and a good problem solver yet doing math problems seem to be difficult for him. We are not doing the math exercises in the book because we are using a different book.

Science and history are his favorites. He loves the books, the experiments and the map and globe work. He loves music and he loves to draw so he really enjoys the hymns and the art projects. Spelling is fine as long as he can just spell and not write.

Wow! That was way more information than anyone probably wanted. Thanks for listening.

Durea

Carrie
Site Admin
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Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:39 pm

Post by Carrie » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:34 am

Durea,

You have received such wonderful counsel from the ladies on this board that I hesitate to add anything more. Thanks so much for sharing your joys and your struggles. We can all certainly relate, and I know it's helpful to feel others are walking the same path you are.

I know God uses our struggles for good, so I'm glad to see you feel His leading on your life right now. I always take comfort that even our trials can be used for His glory.

Since your son is enjoying the history, science, and overall activities, it would appear that "Bigger Hearts..." is a good fit for him. It may just need some tweaking to be a great fit.

One of my boys also did not love to write. After many struggles, I finally backed off on the amount of writing required and had many less tears. This son did love to draw and create, just like your little guy, so they sound very similar. With that in mind, for the notebooking assignments, you may want to do the writing for him, and just let him do the drawing portion. He will still end up with a notebook that he has created, and you won't have the writing battle there.

For the memory verses, you may again want to write them for him and just have him recite them instead. The goal is to memorize the verses, not to have a writing battle. As far as copywork, your idea to back off is just what is needed. Slow, steady progress is better than tears and frustration.

In the area of narrating, I know it can be a struggle for some kids at first. You may again want to slow down and only have him narrate once or twice each week. Narrating can be more like an informal discussion at first (which is the way its set up in our other guides). It also works best with short readings, so make sure you're not asking him to narrate a long reading. If he shares even a few sentences as a narration, I would praise him and move on.

You'll probably want to keep the lessons in the storytime part of the plans that teach him how to narrate (once per week). On the other days, I would just read aloud to him and let him enjoy it - no narrating.

Have a wonderful school day!

Blessings,
Carrie

blessedmomof4
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Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

bigger hearts

Post by blessedmomof4 » Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:32 pm

Hi-I'm using Bigger Hearts with a 3rd and 4th grader. My 4th grader is a little behind in reading but loves to write, so she is quick with the writing assignments and does them all very well, but sometimes we takes turns reading to each other for the reading assignments. As for my 3rd grader, she is a very slow writer, so, for example, with grammar I shorten the assigmnents or have her do some orally. With Bible memory I may have her copy only the reference and I write the verse out for her, and she recites it. With notebooking, she draws and I may help her label. For copywork, I may only have her copy one line or phrase of a poem. In this way, we have a pretty relaxed and fruitful day.
Just remember that this is the beauty of homeschooling, that you know your child well and don't have to go by anyone else's timetable-have a blessed day :D

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