Help with 9yo

[netpea]

Hi, I need some suggestions for how to deal with my 9yo. I have posted about him before. He "can't" do his work if his sister is doing anything different. He wants to see what she is doing. He has to get a drink of water or use the toilet or blow his nose, any excuse he can think of. The work is "too hard", "too boring", "useless", etc... I am doing Carrie's timer suggestion. After 10-20 minutes I take his book away and move on. The pile of work not completed grows on his desk in his room. After school time he must stay in his room until he is done, unless I need him to do gardening work or his sister has something to go to. For instance today I was planning to take them fishing after school and working in the flower beds. Little sis got to fish, Big Brother had to sit on the park bench with his schoolbooks and then go to his room afterwards. He's been in his room all evening up to bedtime. I took his dinner to him in his room, etc...

He thinks its unfair and torture. Anyone else have better suggestions? This is getting really old. How do you motivate a 9yo to complete work in a timely fashion? We don't believe in material rewards. I would think if I knew I wouldn't get to go fishing, swimming, etc, that I'd do my work, but he is really stubborn.
- frustrated.

[Bibliophile]

I would bring in "The Principal" at this point. Our oldest (9) has some issues with dawdling too. ESPECIALLY since her younger sister started school with us this year. Our solution is the same one you're using, but the difference is, she has to answer to her dad (my dh) for all the work she didn't complete. He checks her Math every night because she seems to do better work when she knows he's going to check it, but he also checks everything she had to do outside of school time because she dawdled. She can't stand it because he's much harder than me . Plus, he asks her WHY the work didn't get done in school and she has to answer him. He'll often impose another punishment on her (extra chores, fining her for wasting my time etc). I've been doing this off and on all year, but we've determined it works and are resolved to be consistent. After several weeks of sticking to our guns, her math was done in record time today, and she only got 1 wrong! Talk about motivation

Blessings!
Dorinda

[my3sons]

Lee Ann,

He is one tough cookie! How long have you been doing the timer? It takes about a month to replace a bad habit with a good habit - maybe more time is all it will take. He may just be "waiting you out". You could have a heart to heart with him about how his interest in his sister's school paired with his attitude is making his school take far too long. You could say you recognize his interest in what she's doing, so you've looked at her school day and found some things that would work well for him to be near her for, while still moving on with his own school.

Logistically, can you do school with your dd doing LHFHG completely in a different place than your son is for part of the day? Could he do something independently for 1 hour while you do the left side of LHFHG and phonics with dd in a different room? It could either be something independent in BHFHG (like Cheerful Cursive, poetry copywork) at his desk in his room maybe with some Christian music on? Or it could be something non-school-related, like an educational computer game. Could you do school with your dd in her room? Then, your dd could do something independently, and you could give all of your time to your ds, sitting by his side, timer still set, keeping him on task. You could also hold his hands and pray with him when he becomes difficult. God is good at diffusing tough situations! Your dd could then do her Fine Motor Skills at the table while your ds did his R & S Grammar with you. Then, while he finished his R & S Grammar, you could do your dd's math with her at the table. Then, maybe you could do your dd's read-aloud over lunch so your son can listen in too.

It doesn't sound like an academic concern, but more of an attitude concern. I will pray for you LeeAnn, I know that can be sooo frustrating, but I also know you are an incredible mom. Keep after it, you'll chip away at this, and it will improve over time. Praying!

In Christ,
Julie

[netpea]

Thanks Dorinda and Julie,
My son does have to explain to his Dad why he's not doing his work and in the past, my husband would take stuff away as a consequence. But that doesn't seem to help in the long term, and hubby and I are both extremely frustrated. My son dawdles like this whenever he expected to help out around here too. It's almost not worth asking him to help.

We've only been using the timer for 2 weeks, so I will keep using it Julie. We've used it off and on this year since Carrie first suggested it and tended to make my son go balistic. But we've established it as routine now. I will consider your other ideas Julie. It would make sense to have my dd do her stuff separately as she is learning bad attitudes from her brother.

THANKS,

[Alison in KY]

Hi Lee Ann, I'm going to throw some ideas out here so take what you can use and throw the rest out.

First, could you all just need a break? I know I need to take some time off every so often, I'm sure my kids feel that also. I know my kids would say they wanted time off from school daily (like not doing school at all) but that isn't an option. However, would a fun day or two with mom help out. Low on stress and pressure on him. Maybe sometime during a break you could have a heart to heart to him about his "job" being school. That everyone has to do "job's" and one of his is school, the other is to help his family out with the house. I'm thinking with so much negative going on, it might help to let him know what he's doing right (sometimes I feel like all my son hears is how he is doing something wrong. That's when I have to stop and figure out how to change the way I'm doing things.).

I can share with you that for 5 years my son has dropped more pencils, picks his nails with his pencils, slurped more drinks, etc. It can drive me crazy if I let it. If he brings something to the table..sometimes it's a drink, rubber band (yesterday I had to remove one of these), hot wheels car....I just have to remove it from the table (that includes a glass of water).

He also get's easily distracted while something else is going on. He just needs it fairly quiet when he is doing school. That's why it seems to take me forever making up a school schedule. I have to arrange things so that I am giving two girls their phonics lessons (at diff. times) and other lessons where they might be too loud for my son to concentrate. I see genuine frustration and difficulty paying attention when it's loud in the room. It has gotten a bit better with age (he's 10), but he still needs that help. He also does alot better if I'm sitting at the table with him. So I just try to be there for certain times, to keep him focused and help him with any questions.

The timer really helped us out. What I did when my son was 9 is actually shorten our lessons. It helped tremendously. I also use a digital timer so I don't have anything going tick tick tick. What I do not do is give him homework if he doesn't get A, B, or C done. Maybe you should try that. Just give him shorter lessons for now and make it clear to him that you expect the best he can give in X amount of time. I had been setting a timer for 30 minutes in math, doing a spelling lesson until I felt we had done enough, etc. There was a big difference when I shortened his lesson.

I started my son doing 15 min. of math (at 8 to 9 yrs), but he would do as much work in that 15 min. as had taken him 30 minutes previously. I don't know if he saw the light at the end of the tunnel or what, but somehow with those shorter lessons our time became more efficiently used. Again, there was no homework. If we ended in the middle of a page then that is where we picked up on it the next day. Also, this was without his sister sitting close by reading out loud or distracting him. It just didn't work out that way for us.

I once read a book that discussed testosterone surges in boys....that every so often they would just act nutty and be hyper and all that goes along with it. I don't know if that is true, but I definitely can tell times where my son is just wound up and I think that is what is going on. I now handle it easier than I used to do. I guess it helped to just think that he wasn't acting up, that something was going on with him that he couldn't help so much (like me and irritability with PMS...I don't want to feel the way I do, but it just happens). So I think the older they get the more appropriately they can handle these times.

Just yesterday I realized my son was ready for slightly longer lessons in some areas. I'm adding 5 min. to our science, making our spelling a few minutes longer (10-15 min daily) and our math was bumped up to 20 min. lessons a while back. You can increase your son's lessons when you see him maturing a bit and when it feels like the lessons are done easily.

Try not to compare him to your daughter. If it's like it is at my house, then they are way different. My daughter could zip through schoolwork....but she doesn't have near the common sense or mechanical mind that my son has.

HTH,
Alison

[Carrie]

LeeAnn,

I agree with the wise advice the ladies have shared. One idea that works along the lines of what Allison shared is to set the timer for 15 minutes for each part of the plans and as long as he works while the timer is on, at the end of 15 min. he's done with that box in the plans and you just put away that section until tomorrow. However, if he dawdles, then he gets the timer set for an additional 5 minutes on the end when the timer rings. During that 5 min., I would sit with him and really help him get done whatever is needed for that box of the plans, even to the point of writing for him or doing it orally, or scaling it back or whatever hustles it along so he's done. You want a "beat the timer" as a team type feel, like you are on his side as his helper to help him get done. So, when we're in that 5 min. after my son has dawdled time, I even talk quickly and act like I'm really rushing at that point, so my own little dawdler catches that feeling and energy (and learns what it looks and feels like to hustle). At the end of that time, he's done no matter how he performed.

I would scale back the requirements in each box, so they fit within a 15 min. block of time. Then, if needed just finish the rest the next day, or if enough was accomplished, then move on to the next day. The ladies are right that habit training is your most important goal right now.

I also agree that you don't want him off in his room doing homework all evening, as it makes you feel upset (and it would me too) and wears him out to the point of giving school a bad taste for him. We do this rarely and even then my hubby oversees it, so it isn't me battling my son.

I'd agree that it's best to have your daughter's school in a room away from where your son is. It would also be great to give your son a break during that time using educational computer CD's, or a book on tape, or quiet reading time, or whatever is still educational but independent so that it won't make him behind if he doesn't finish it.

My own second son cannot focus on his work with distractions around him either, and he still dawdles if I'm not moving him along through his day. Some kiddos are just more this way than others. But, my son is getting better, slowly steadily through the years. I feel your frustration and your exhaustion. So, keep sharing as you go, and we'll all chime in to help. I just wanted you to know that you're not alone.

One last resort would be to place your son back with your daughter for a repeat trip through Beyond's left side and for the storytime from the right side of the guide (and then doing his 3 R's from the Bigger guide to beef up the program). I hesitate to recommend this, as I'm not sure growing another year older before heading back into Bigger will solve your son's problem (if he's just a dawdler at heart then it's a heart issue). However, sometimes one more year's worth of maturity can make a big difference. So, only you can weigh whether that is best at this point for you. Maybe he would be motivated by being with your daughter?

I must admit that I have been glad that my own dawdler has his own HOD guide so that his habits affect only him and not the other kiddos. This way we can systematically work through improving his habits as an individual, rather than having them rub off on my little ones or having my oldest one frustrated as he waits on my second son. With the system I've outlined above my second son does still take the bulk of my instruction/overseeing time, but he is quite joyful within his day and I just keep him steadily moving forward.


Blessings,
Carrie

[Tree House Academy]

Hmmm...total opposite of my 9 year old. My 9 year old will RUSH through his work to get finished with it so he can do stuff. However, this poses a problem too since the quality can often be reflective of such rushing. We are working on it, though.

Could there be an underlying reason your ds is so reluctant? I mean, could you maybe have placed him above or below his level so he is either challenged too much or not challenged enough? My younger son will struggle and get whiny and fidgety if he is bored, but he does the same when I am challenging him too much. Also, work load. For instance, the first time I did Explode the Code with my then 5y/o, I had him do an entire lesson. Ha.Ha.Ha. No. I learned that lesson FAST. Now, ds 9 can do a lesson of phonics review in about 10 minutes. Ds 5 was just not ready for that kind of work. So, I scaled back to 2 pages a day, twice a week (the other two days we do ETC online). This has been perfect. Sometimes, he will complain, but he knows this is what I expect from him and he does it.

I am sorry you are having this trouble. Do "grades" motivate him at all? My ds works so hard when he thinks he may get a "B" - even though we don't do report cards (other than for fun). He just knows that he can do A work and he doesn't want a B. For my younger, we motivate with allowance. While Big brother gets allowance for chores, little brother gets his allowance based on 1. not whining at school! and 2. keeping his room clean.

My first thought, though, is still that maybe you didn't place him quite correctly. Is there a certain subject that seems to slow him down? I notice with my ds9, when he has a ton of math to do, it can really ruin the entire day. When I was doing Singapore with him, I had to really watch what I assigned so as not to totally bog him down. Now we use CLE math and the "lessons" are easy to follow and are not overkill. Thank God! And I don't have to schedule it!!!

[eazbnsmom]

Hi netpea!

I would definitely try some of the things the others have recommended, but did think of a couple of other issues that it could be.

1) It could be an academic problem, as other have mentioned (work is to difficult)
2) It could be a nutritional problem. He could be sensitive to sugar (or food coloring/MSG etc). I am hypoglycemic and I know when I have too much (and trust me sometimes it doesnt have to be a sugary item, but white bread etc) I have trouble concentrating. Having more protein than carbs helps
3) or It could be heart issue, which will need to be dealt with prayer and work. (you mentioned he has trouble when you ask him to help around the house....could also be nutritionally related)

Praying that God will give you and your husband wisdom and guidance.


PS: My 9yo daughter has this problem to sometimes....especially when her sugar levels are off

[srp1997]

Hello,

I am a fellow frustrated mom with a 10 year old. I actually posted last night for the first time (math woes) after reading your post and the replies. I feel your pain. My ds is so sweet, bright, curious, and loves many parts of our school day. However, he struggles to met expectations in certain core areas. I think I am dealing with A) a child that needs lots of repetition, B) a mom and curriculums that don't stress repetition, C) some diligence and focus issues for ds, and D) daily schedule/structure issues for mom. I tried to use Carrie's timer suggestion today and it helped. I really loved what she had to say. It was a firm/loving/team approach. Go Team!

I'll pray for you.

[netpea]

Thank you ladies. I did use some of the suggestions today and we had a much better day. Carrie, I know its not necessarily the best scenario, but I am planning to set Bigger aside when my daughter finishes Little Hearts and put them both into Beyond. I think it will help us to have only one program. I will get extra library books for my son to read so he keeps learning, and I will keep him at his level for the 3Rs. But I think that it will be a relief to do Beyond together. After that I'll have to decide if we're going to do Bigger together, or separate them again.

If anyone else has thoughts please chime in. It's so encouraging to be able to post on this board.

[Carrie]

LeeAnn,

I have great respect for you from the time we've spent together on this board, and I know that if you decide that it is best for you to combine your kiddos in Beyond than I have complete confidence that this is the best decision for your family.

We have the unique opportunity to share one another's lives on this board, and I truly count that a privilege. However, each family has the best "take" on what is needed for their kiddos to be successful, and your decision is what matters the most.

I'm so glad that your little guy did a bit better today with some of the new things to try. It is a huge blessing to travel this way together, so we can uplift and encourage one another.

You're doing great, Lee Ann and you want only the best for your little guy. He is blessed to have you for his mom!

Blessings,
Carrie

[my3sons]

Thank you ladies. I did use some of the suggestions today and we had a much better day. Carrie, I know its not necessarily the best scenario, but I am planning to set Bigger aside when my daughter finishes Little Hearts and put them both into Beyond. I think it will help us to have only one program. I will get extra library books for my son to read so he keeps learning, and I will keep him at his level for the 3Rs. But I think that it will be a relief to do Beyond together. After that I'll have to decide if we're going to do Bigger together, or separate them again.

If anyone else has thoughts please chime in. It's so encouraging to be able to post on this board.

I can completely understand this plan, Lee Ann, and I too am fully confident in your decisions for your dc - because of knowing you so well through this board. You are a wonderful mom, and I think this plan fits well with your current goals for ds! Thank you for sharing what you will be doing - it is always a joy to know when a mom has come to a peace about what to do the next year, and I'm so glad to know you've reached a good decision for next year!

In Christ,
Julie

[netpea]

Thanks Carrie and Julie. I have the utmost respect for you both as well. I think competition with his sister will help as she is usually driven to complete her work well but quickly. I have also noticed that my son feels like he is missing out on something if I do anything with my daughter separately. At this point I am basically going through all of Little Hearts first with both of them. Then taking my son elsewhere to do the 3Rs. By sitting with him alone and doing it with him, we are doing better. I'm letting him write an answer, then I write one. I am weary with the first trimester of pregnancy. I'm hoping the hormones will soon shift and I'll have more energy again. In the meantime, we're just doing the best we can. I expect we'll move into Beyond around the first or second week of June. Beyond is short enough that even doing the 3Rs separately if needed, we should still have the bulk of our day left for yardwork and fun.

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions, I am grateful.