I need "natural" consequences for habit training!

[lmercon]

I'm really trying to work on habit-training with my ds (7). Of course, I've had expectations for a long time as far as chores and behavior go, but I really feel that I need to do more work in this area. It seems he "forgets" too often, and I've fallen into the trap of what Charlotte Mason called, "Always telling." I made cards that have each habit written on them. I want to work on them one at a time. Many are things we've already expected in the past, but I want to work on them pointedly. Where I get fuzzy is in the area of natural consequences. Instead of "always telling", nagging, reminding, etc. I want to have clear consequences that will be meaningful to him. For example, if the habit we are focusing on is making his bed every morning, than a consequence of not doing that would be that he must make his bed and his sister's the next morning. So what are some natural consequences for some of these other habits I'd like to work on with him?

1. Use proper table manners
2. Not try to parent others and be responsible for me
3. Get up and be ready on time when we are going somewhere that day
4. Brush teeth after breakfast and clean up any messes in the bathroom
5. Complete all before breakfast chores without reminders or complaints
6. Use inside manners including: walking not running, inside voice, not jumping on stairs, etc.
7. Not dawdle when completing chores and schoolwork
8. Do what I am told with first time obedience without dawdling, forgetting, and with a good attitude

Any and all suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Laura

[Daisy]

My son is 7 and this is pretty much what we would do....

1. Use proper table manners - or stand in the corner and eat by yourself when everyone else is done.
2. Not try to parent others and be responsible for me - If you want to be the Momma, then you can do my chores.
3. Get up and be ready on time when we are going somewhere that day - Waste my time then I waste yours. When we return home, he owes me time doing chores. (I try to help with this by making sure all clothes, shoes, backpacks, etc. are completely ready to go the night before).
4. Brush teeth after breakfast and clean up any messes in the bathroom - Make a mess and don't clean it up means you clean more. Miss the toilet? Clean the entire toilet. Leave a mess on the bathroom counter? Wipe down the counters and then sweep the floor.... If he wastes a product (squirting toothpaste or shampoo or soap), then he pays for it.
5. Complete all before breakfast chores without reminders or complaints - Before breakfast chores not done on time? Eat an apple or granola bar for breakfast (in other words, he's going to make up the time by eating a quick breakfast).
6. Use inside manners including: walking not running, inside voice, not jumping on stairs, etc. - Part of this is just boys, I think. I just usually kick him outside for some much needed energy release.
7. Not dawdle when completing chores and schoolwork - Waste my time, I'll waste yours. He can sit and do school work while everyone else is on break.
8. Do what I am told with first time obedience without dawdling, forgetting, and with a good attitude - I treat this as disobedience and give a spanking.

I try to tackle some of these in a positive way.

1. Finding times when I can encourage and catch him being good.
2. Giving him PLENTY of physical activity. Most of my son's misbehavior is just that he has more energy than brains.
3. Close supervision. I cannot leave him alone in the bathroom with the temptation of liquid soap for 20 min.
4. Make it a game. Every subject done on time for school and he gets to add to his train set. By the time school is done, his train set is ready to go. Roll two dice. The total number rolled is how many things he has to pick up in his room right then.
5. Pre-planning. Clothes ready the night before. Shoes put in the car. Baths taken at night. Etc., etc. He hates to be rushed so I try to give him plenty of notice. "Ryan, we are leaving at 11am. So in 10 minutes, you are going to have to clean up."

Doing those five things eleminates the vast majority of our issues.

[netpea]

1. Use proper table manners - My children usually use good table manners, so if they don't we'll remind them. If they keep it up, then their dinner is over.
2. Not try to parent others and be responsible for me - hmmm, haven't tackled this one yet.
3. Get up and be ready on time when we are going somewhere that day - we struggle here too, enforcing an 8:30 lights out has helped though.
4. Brush teeth after breakfast and clean up any messes in the bathroom -
5. Complete all before breakfast chores without reminders or complaints - we have a chore chart where they do their chores and move the cards to the done pocket. It works when I remember to check it. Consistency is key. The rule is supposed to be no breakfast till chores done.
6. Use inside manners including: walking not running, inside voice, not jumping on stairs, etc. - like the pp, kick 'em out to play
7. Not dawdle when completing chores and schoolwork - I am using Carrie's suggestion and setting a timer. Any work not done by the time the timer rings, goes on his desk to be completed after everyone else is done.
8. Do what I am told with first time obedience without dawdling, forgetting, and with a good attitude - need more work here

[dale1088]

A timely post for me. With my dd it's mostly attitude, tone, her mouth!: complaining, whining, arguing, not taking no for an answer and then pouting about it. Tonight it was so bad I took away her reading time before bed. I used to say that reading was one thing I'd never take away, but she was getting sassy about that being "her" time and not wanting to turn out the lights when told. Etc. I was looking for a serious consequence and BOY did I find it! After sobbing dramatically for 10 minutes she finally came down to say something else and i was able to give her a hug and tell her that tomorrow is a new day. I don't like it when i can't "restore" but i sometimes find the consequence is more meaningful that way.

She's also a lover of money, so when she is messy at the table, she has to pay me $.25. That usually clears it up quickly.

We have a "morning routine" that I posted on their bathroom mirror with clip-art pics (since my son can't read yet) and they know that after breakfast it's off to do the morning routine. Their individual chores are listed on there, as well as brushing teeth and hair, etc.

I love "you waste my time, I'll waste yours". That's great! I can think of SO MANY instances where this philosophy would come in handy!!!

[erdrmom]

This is so timeley for me. We struggle with these things a lot at our house. I really like the book by Lisa Whelchel called Creative Correction. She has helped me to think outside the box in my correction/training. Here are my thoughts:

1. Use proper table manners - don't have too many problems with this yet, my dd is neat, and my ds is just now getting to the noises phase. We do have problems with refusing to eat what is prepared. I have no solution...but I am working on it.
2. Not try to parent others and be responsible for me - This is a big one for us. I like the idea from Daisy, but my dd really WANTS to be the mommy, so I am not sure that will work for us. I have been reading Boundaries for Kids and if there is a conflict, which is usually what starts the "mommying" at our house, I have them both talk about what they did to make the other upset. I'm trying to help them realize that their behavior has consequences to others and themselves.
3. Get up and be ready on time when we are going somewhere that day - on this one, it's more me than them.
4. Brush teeth after breakfast and clean up any messes in the bathroom - somehow, I was blessed with 2 neat freaks for kids. They hate it when the bathroom is messy.
5. Complete all before breakfast chores without reminders or complaints - we use a chore chart that is filled in daily as the chores are done. At the end of the day, if all chores are checked off, they get a quarter. If not, they don't get the quarter.
6. Use inside manners including: walking not running, inside voice, not jumping on stairs, etc. - We have a big problem with running. There are times that it is ok with us, like when it's been raining for 5 days straight, but other times when it's not. We give a warning to stop, and if they run again, they have to walk backwards until the next meal or until bedtime.
7. Not dawdle when completing chores and schoolwork - We set a timer for chores and anything that is not picked up gets collected and can be earned back with good behavior. We don't have the problem with school yet, right now I have to convince her to slow down.
8. Do what I am told with first time obedience without dawdling, forgetting, and with a good attitude - We say that they must obey right away, all the way and in a happy way because that is what God wants from us. It doesn't always work, but most of the time it does.

Some of the other things I have discovered about my children is that they are very intellectual and if I keep their brains engaged, their behavior is better. Although each day is vastly different.

One thing we have started recently is giving good reward points. I bought some fish cutouts at the teacher supply store and wrote on the back, "Caught You Doing Good" and 1 point. Every time I catch them doing something without being asked, or helping out above their chores, I give them a fish. They have a redemption sheet that shows the number of fish they need to earn special rewards, like computer time, staying up late, an extra family game night, special playdate, etc. There are some behaviors that we haven't been able to eliminate, so there can be reductions in points. We have a specific issue with picking flowers from our neighbors flower beds. So, we have that as a deduction, and in an attempt to teach them to respect others, they get more taken away if they pick from a neighbors bed than if they had picked from ours.

Hope this helps. I will be following the responses to see what other ideas are out there...I can use all the help I can get!

[gestep]

Find his "Achilles heel" and take it away. For our girls it is video game time. If the bed is not made, work is not done, school work is not done, etc, then no video games plus they have to do extra work/reading/school during that time. This really hurts when Daddy is playing and they have to do extra reading
They have lost "cat priviledges" when they were pestering the cat-no touching the cat for a day.
Forgetting to leave the bathroom in order means brushing the dog or cleaning up after her in the yard. Cleaning up someone else's "bathroom" seems to have a big impact. If you don't have a dog offer to send them to clean the neighbors yard, rake their leaves, shovel snow, etc.
Teeth are not brushed after breakfast, then no lunch.
Poor table manners-meal is over.
Not ready on time-go to bed early that night and for the next time you have to be somewhere, or make him get up early next time you have to be somewhere.
Obeying the first time-we always taught "obey right away" and that is what God expects of us. Again take privileges away. This is the most serious offense in my opinion because it is condition of the heart which can lead to rebellion. We have lots of discussions on rebellion. Our girls like the Star Wars movies so when they rebell just calling her "Aniken" (sp) (they guy who becomes Darth Vader) gets the point across. It is a strong example of what doing what we want destroys ourselves and those around us (not that I recommend these movies since there is content that is not acceptable, but we discuss it so much I cannot believe they even enjoy the movie. LOL) Anyway, hope something here helps you or someone else.

Gina

[water2wine]

1. Use proper table manners
I make them eat alone if they are purposefully being disobedient. If they are having too much fun I remind them. If they do not respond then they get to eat alone.

2. Not try to parent others and be responsible for me
I have a son that tries to be in control a lot. If he is disrespectful in that he has to serve the person he wronged in some way. That may be taking over their chores or it may be something that shows respect to the other person. If he is trying to control a situation I have a talk with him about controlling other people and I isolate him from the situation that he is trying to control. That is agonizing to him. I only have one child that does this really.

3. Get up and be ready on time when we are going somewhere that day
I no longer have this problem. This sometimes can be that organization is not there for them to be able to get ready. Meaning there is not a good system for where clothes and shoes go and how they are put away so outfits and be found well. If we have to leave early in the morning I have kids put clothes out and show me the night before outfit and shoes, sox etc so I know we have no fashion faux pas and all is clean. If you do that it is always easy to get out. I make them get ready in the morning so going out the door is not an issue. Shoes are always in one central place. I have a little cabinet by the door. We get clothes ready the night before for church. If they are just simply wasting time I also look at this as daisy does with you take my time you give it back and I am big on doing that as a solution in general. I also make them at times miss a chance to go out if they make it too hard to get out the door.

4. Brush teeth after breakfast and clean up any messes in the bathroom
Teeth and cleaning up the bathroom after brushing teeth are on our chore chart. So if there is a mess I know who to go to get it cleaned. If you do not have chores done on time and I am having to ride you all the time that is a also considered wasting my time and I recoup it.

5. Complete all before breakfast chores without reminders or complaints
Well I consider this to be not acting their age. So therefore younger children who can't control their emotions need more sleep so therefore bedtime gets earlier if you complain stomp or moan. Do that a few times and it will be fixed.

6. Use inside manners including: walking not running, inside voice, not jumping on stairs, etc.
There is some kind of play I do not allow in my house. I do throw them outside sometimes but there is a level of respect for taking care of the house God gave us by not having certain kinds of rough housing in the house. If it were a problem continuously and excessively I would have them help care for things. I do the stupid go back and walk things to because it just works.

7. Not dawdle when completing chores and schoolwork
That is also wasting my time. I think if it takes too much time to do chores that means you need more practice so you can get good at it so I provide that practice. Not completing school work loses free time until it is done and if it is a habit that requires me enforcing it continually then extra chores to give me back my time will happen and I do really give my chores, not more of theirs.

8. Do what I am told with first time obedience without dawdling, forgetting, and with a good attitude
I would tend to look at this a bit deeper and see the cause for instance I found that my kids think they can skip their chore if the chore before theirs was not done. Finally I instituted a thing that the person who does not let me know a chore was done so theirs can be done (like on dishes) will also be in trouble for not doing their chore and if they use that as an excuse I will remove everyone else off that chore and just let it be theirs since they are not working well with others. That will pretty much fix it when things get complicated.

HTH This is an interesting thread.