Some specific subject questions

[mariaw]

Hi everyone! I'm so excited to start using HOD. I think it is what I've been looking for for years. I'll give you a little background, then ask my questions.

I have 3 kids: dd8, ds6, ds4. We are in a large co-op and used MFW this year (K and ECC). It just hasn't really clicked with us. We'll finish out ECC with my 8yo, but I think I'm going to scrap K and start on LHFHG right away. We'll continue with the co-op next year, and here is where my questions come in.

First for ds6 (and ds4): They don't really have weekly work sent home for co-op so I'm free to do what I want. We'll be doing LHFHG.

1. I like The Reading Lesson option for them--they both know letter sounds, but are stuck on blending right now. I think this will be great for them both. Can anyone tell me more about the CDROM? I looked at the sample, and it didn't WOW me. However, ds6 especially likes to be on the computer. I guess it would be nice to have the same lessons on the computer, but it really doesn't look that much different from Starfall. Do you feel like the CDROM was the key to the program for your kids? Or do you feel like it was a waste of money and could be replaced with other websites?

2. Is the Thinking Skills: Grade 1 consumable?

OK, now for dd8: Our co-op is doing MFW Ancients to Greeks next year. We just don't click with MFW, and from what I've seen of the TM for next year, I don't see that it will be any different. So, we'll be doing our own history. In a perfect world, we could do the new Creation to Christ program and she could do all the fun stuff at co-op with them as either review or intro to what we'll do at home. However, I'm always concerned about getting into programs that are too advanced for my kids. But, dd8 is way above grade level in reading, and I'm wondering if it would work. She will be doing the same Apologia book at co-op also, so that would match up nicely. Here are my questions:

1. I feel very confident that she places into DIHR at 4/5. Right now, she is doing Total Language Plus for Charlotte's Web, Shiloh, and The Courage of Sarah Noble (all of which she already read independently last year). She's doing great in it. So, in terms of the placement chart, she's fine in the reading category. But when it comes to writing, we are just now starting on cursive, and the most dictation we do is 1 sentence at a time. She loves creative writing, though, and writes stories in a notebook constantly. She is familiar with basic parts of speech, but we've done no diagramming. I guess my question is this--how "contained" are the writing and grammar portions of the program in the R&S and writing books? We will be doing Writing Strands at co-op next year, so I will substitute that for those books (we will also add DIHR 4/5). Or is the writing/grammar integrated into the rest of the program in a way that I could not adjust this to her level?

2. As of now, she does independent reading for all of her history and science assignments. She also has a devotional that she does on her own, and has memorized a huge amount of scripture from 3 years of AWANAS. Do you think she will be ready for the Creation to Christ program in this area? Even if we start out fine now, will she find herself over her head in later years because we are a year ahead?

I could just do Preparing with her, and I know we would enjoy it. But it sure would be nice to be on the same page (history- and science-wise) as co-op. And I really think she's ready, other than the writing/grammar category (which we would be modifying).

Thanks for your help!

Maria

[Kathleen]

Hi Maria!

I wanted to pop in and welcome you here! I can't help with all your questions...but hopefully I can help a little.

I started the Reading Lesson at Christmas time (going very slowly) with my 4 1/2 yo. We got the CD-rom with it. My little gal really likes it and it does seem to reinforce the actual lessons for us. I let her play on Starfall some too, but she much prefers the Reading Lesson CD. But, I the Reading Lesson will for sure work without it, too. It gets a thumbs-up from our house though!

I don't think I can really help you with your placement question for your oldest. My 9 yo will be going into Preparing next year. I can tell you that the R&S isn't intertwined with the guide. You could use whatever level fit your dd easily. However, the writing will somewhat be mixed in I'm sure with written narrations. I'm guessing that there will be skills that are meant to be independent that your dd may find difficult if you jump in a bit above her head. Maybe when the samples are up you'll be able to get a feel for how much work it would be for you to make it work. I can tell you that one of the things I love about HOD is how wonderful it is to be right at my ds's level and have no tweaking to do. You'd have to decide if you wanted to give that away if CTC is a bit too hard. Would the fun things from your co-op still work if you did Preparing with her. I know you'd be doing a broad sweep of history there, but still starting at the beginning.

I'm sure there will be other ladies along to help you.
Kathleen

[Kathleen]

OK, I just re-read the end of your post. Maybe you wouldn't have to adapt much of CTC...so that would be a good fit. I'm guessing the sample week that's coming will really help you.

[8arrows]

Well, I understand wanting to be on the same history content as the coop. However, I am putting my 9 year old in Bigger and my 11 year old in Ancients, so I would think (considering your writing, grammar, dictation placement) that Ancients may be hard for your oldest. As you mentioned, the years will only increase in difficulty. I bet Carrie or Julie will have some good ideas for you.

[Mom2Monkeys]

Welcome! I know you'll love HOD whatever you choose, but proper placement is SO SO important to your success with it. I have a very advanced 2nd grader and we have been doing Beyond with her this year and it is plenty! I bumped up to the Math in Bigger (Singapore 2A/B), and we go at a faster pace in Spelling. We already did R&S 2 and loved it, took a grammar break this year, and we'll pick up 3 when we start Bigger.

She is 7 and reads at a 5th grade level...we still use DITHOR 2/3 b/c that is what grade she is and the activities are perfect for her age. After much consideration, I decided to stay on level with her in this area to continue to foster a love of reading that I could squash if I make this a more "rigorous" area of study...DITHOR is meant to foster that love! We have been doing the 2/3 student book with the Level 2 book pack and we have LOVED it! It has been plenty and she has learned so much. The most I might do is go up a level of books, but I plan to stay on the grade level for the student book. Reading and analyzing are two different skills, and this route has been just right for us!

I'm telling you all this to let you know that even going with a guide that puts her at the top end of the age range even though she's advanced will still be a deep study, provide a challenge, yet foster a love of learning...so long as she has her own level of Math and Language Arts, she will learn so much! Just like my gifted dd has in Beyond this year! I don't think Preparing will be too easy at all and I tend to think CTC might be a bit much-- but maybe not....I would study the placement chart prayerfully.The ease of doing the right guide for her abilities will far outweigh the benefit of doing the same books as co-op. Your life will be easier for it and school will be challenging and joyful for her! Co-op could just be a good intro into what you'll be doing in CTC the next year

This is just my two cents....but it comes from a mom who formerly plowed full steam ahead to make sure her gifted dd was at the highest level possible in every subject to make sure everything was always a challenge...she could do it, but with more maturity comes a deeper understanding and that's where true learning happens! I know you aren't doing that, but at least you see where I'm coming from!

HTH! I know it's more than you asked for, but I'm still foggy and should never leave posts when I'm so tired! LOL

[netpea]

From what you've described about your oldest, I'm thinking Bigger would be a better fit. But have you checked the Placement Chart?? That is really the key to finding the right program.

Thinking Skills is a consumable book. We used The Reading Lesson with both kids. The copy I have was used and the CD doesn't work. I know that you can do the program without the CD because my kids are reading great, but those who use the CD absolutely love it.

[mariaw]

Thank you all SO MUCH for your words of wisdom about my oldest. I want to get the most out of these programs, and the advice on DITHOR is very good. I will definitely rethink that prayerfully. I do want to challenge my kids enough so that they don't get bored, but yet forget that there is a difference between the "mechanics" and the subjective side of learning. Early on, I erred in pushing too fast, and while we enjoyed the program we did and dd learned a lot, I felt like so much was wasted and she didn't get everything out of it that she would have a year or so later.

I just have a lot to consider. Looking at Preparing, we have already studied over 50% of those books already (many of them this year--and nearly ALL of the science). So in terms of subject matter, it would be redundant. I think a sample page of Hearts For Him will help me make a decision, but it just may come down to holding off a year with her, and starting her with HOD the following year.

I would love to hear from Carrie, though, about the writing/grammar aspect of it since we will be substituting our own program. I have read over and over to trust the choices for books and not to substitute, but I don't want to mess with something that is really working for us, and is building on a long-term writing plan with the rest of our co-op.

I'm ready to place my order for my K-er, though! Just need to decide about that CDROM.

[Carrie]

Maria,

I'm sorry I'm popping in late to get to this question! I'd love to know where your oldest kiddo places on the placement chart in the areas on the first page of the chart only (especially keeping in mind the writing that will be required in our programs, as that matters even more than the English and reading level).

Here's a link to the chart: http://www.heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php

I would definitely think hard about putting your child in Level 2/3 of DITHR rather than Level 4/5. There is quite a bit of writing involved in Level 4/5 of DITHR and higher level thinking required in DITHR as well. So, I'd recommend beginning with Level 2/3 instead (just for a year and then bump up to 4/5 the following year, even if you aren't through all of the units).

From what you've shared so far, I'm thinking the best fit for your oldest would be either Bigger Hearts or Preparing Hearts. I'd love to hear back from you with your new musings once you've looked over the placement chart with an eye toward the written work required.

Blessings,
Carrie

[StillJulie]

One more voice chiming in to say don't rush her.

My oldest will be 9 this summer. I'd originally planned to start Preparing with her in the fall, as that is where she places. However, I got caught up in HOD excitement and simply couldn't wait. So, I started her with Bigger about a month ago. I'll go ahead and finish that with her and then continue on in sequence with the other guides. I'm okay with not starting a new guide each fall, and just being in the middle of wherever.

Anyhow, my daughter is an advanced reader and all that, and is still enjoying and being challenged by Bigger. She is doing the Extension Readings in addition to the other work, which she enjoys. She hadn't had much exposure to poetry, so that's been great. Although she's competent with a dictionary, this is helping to cement her dictionary/vocabularly building skills - definitely a worthwile investment of our time. I really would strongly consider Bigger (with the extension pack) if that is where your daughter places when you evaluate the chart.

I'm also doing the 2/3 DITHOR with her, even though she can read at a higher level (and I let her read all she wants at higher levels for her fun reading).

[mariaw]

Maria,

I'm sorry I'm popping in late to get to this question! I'd love to know where your oldest kiddo places on the placement chart in the areas on the first page of the chart only (especially keeping in mind the writing that will be required in our programs, as that matters even more than the English and reading level).

Thanks, Carrie for popping in! I did study the placement chart extensively to begin with, and that's where my questions came from--how much of the writing is part of the HOD program, and how much is in the Rod and Staff and Writing books? I'll try to be more specific.

Looking at the Chart:

Reading: according to what you all have said, I will use DITHOR 2/3. Can I use that with Hearts instead of 4/5?
Writing: not great in cursive yet, but working on it. Able to copy long passages (print). Writes creatively on her own frequently. Loves to write (although spelling/grammar/punctuation are not perfect). We are currently doing 3 dictation sentences at a time. We don't do narration frequently with the program we are currently using, but when we do, I usually do the writing for her as she dictates.
Grammar/Mechanics/Usage: Knows and can identify basic parts of speech. We have not done any diagramming, but will start with the writing program we are using next year (Writing Tales).
Math: We'll be using Math Mammoth 3rd grade.

Bible: She has memorized entire Psalms and other entire passages of scripture. She has a daily devotion that she does on her own each day.
History: She has done quite a bit of notebooking and keeping of a timeline. This year is all geography and cultures (MFW ECC). We haven't done any notetaking.

Science: We are doing Apologia's Flying Creatures this year, and will be doing Land Animals next year (with our co-op)
Storytime: don't really know what to say here. We read a lot out loud and discuss.
Poetry and Rhymes: She hasn't memorized much poetry--maybe 5 or so poems in the last 2 years. We haven't ever "studied" poetry.

Does that help any? Honestly, what I am trying to find out is if I can find a substitution for the Ancients to Greeks class that my co-op is doing next year and wondering if I could make this work. I just keep reading over and over not to make substitutions for the subjects in HOD. But we will be doing our own writing/spelling/grammar program, and not having seen any of the upper level HOD books, I want to know if I can still follow the program and make a substitution there. I understand that I may not get everything out of it that is intended, but I really want to find an alternative Ancients curriculum for dd than what our co-op is using.

I know that's a whole other discussion about whether I should keep my kids on a "timeline" or just go with the HOD book that best fits them. But this co-op is what's best for our whole family, and I do want to keep her on track. A lot of prayer and thought has gone into this, and we will be studying ancient history next year. If Hearts will just be too difficult, I will either look for something else, or just go with the co-op's curriculum. I promise I'm not "one of those" homeschool moms who is constantly trying to have her kids be ahead of everyone! Dd really loves learning, and is just a breeze to teach. Thank you, though for all of your kind words and encouragement about not pushing too hard. I am really not trying to do that, just looking for an ancients curriculum that might work for us.

However, I'll be starting my boys on Little Hearts right away and not changing a thing!

[Carrie]

mariaw,

Thanks so much for taking the time to explain your older daughter to us. That really does help us get a glimpse of where she would fit best. From what you've shared, I'd say that placement-wise Preparing Hearts would probably be her best fit overall. With that being said, I do think you could slide her into the ancient's program, if that is your heart's desire. However, you would have to be mindful about monitoring her assignments and tweaking if needed to keep things at her level. She does fall within the age ranges for CTC (even though she'll be on the youngest end of the age range). It will help her with CTC that she reads well, doesn't mind written work, and is quite independent.

Blessings,
Carrie