Has anyone done four programs at once?

[StillJulie]

I just want to know if I'm crazy for even considering it for next year.

I'll have an advanced fourth grader, slow second grader, kindergartener, preschooler, 1yo, and newborn.

I'm looking at Preparing for the oldest, Beyond for the second grader, Little Hearts for the kindergartener, and Little Hands to Heaven for the preschooler (that one I won't be concerned about getting in regularly, but I already have that manual, so I figure why not?).

I'd originally considered combining the older two with Bigger, but the more I looked at the placement charts and the more I read on here, I just don't think that's best.

My oldest is doing Drawn into the Heart of Reading this year, and I would plan to use that again next year with the two oldest.

I also saw the suggestion of enlisting help (grandparents or audiobooks) for some of the read alouds, so I would definitely plan to do that as needed.

Also, for science, I am considering using an apologia book (which I'm doing this year) with the oldest three together. If I do that, though, will I be missing some valuable ties within each book that I'd regret? Or might it be possible to do all the kids together for science out of the Beyond book?

I'd appreciate any insight you have. Thanks!

[Carrie]

StillJulie,

I agree that if your 4th grader is advanced, you'd have a tough time combining your older 2 kiddos. So, I would place your 4th grader wherever that child fits best on the placement chart. I am wondering, however, if it would be possible for you to combine your K and 2nd grader though (at least for the left side of either LHFHG or Beyond, depending on where they fit better).

If you get a chance to pop back and tell us a little more about your K and 2nd grader (in the areas of reading, writing, math, and listening to chapter books read aloud) that would really help us advise you better.

I'd steer away from doing 4 programs, if at all possible. I know I'll be doing it myself next year, but I wouldn't start out that way unless absolutely necessary.

I'll look forward to hearing a bit more about your kiddos when you get a chance.

Blessings,
Carrie

[Benelli]

Hello. I was also going to see what you thought of combining your 2nd grader with your Kindergartner into Little Hearts. I am currently doing 3 programs with 6 children (and a toddler wreaking havoc all around the house), and I can get it completed fairy well most days within about 7 hours total. I personally think I'd be hard pressed to get 4 programs in! I guess it depnds on your comfort level with that, and how efficiently your children work. These programs are so excellent and efficient that you could probably do it. But, I would definitely take a look at the placement charts here at the website and see if you think you could combine the K and 2nd children.

Blessings!

[StillJulie]

My kindergartener knows very little... doesn't know the alphabet or sounds... doesn't write letters on his own... He hasn't been interested, and I'm not one to push at this age. He'll be six in November. My state doesn't require kindergarten, so I really don't push that (probably why my will be second grader is "slow."), meaning it isn't a big deal to me if I "do school/bookwork" every day for kindergarten. This year he has done sporadic work in the Rod & Staff workbooks (he's actually already into the Do It Carefully one used in Little Hearts).

My will be second grader (he'll be 8 in October) could not keep up with Rod & Staff's 1st grade phonics. We lost it in unit two this year. One day was all of the long a vowel rules, next day was long e, then long i, and so on. Even with slowing it down, he was overwhelmed, and I decided to scrap it, at least temporarily. I was given some horizons K reading/phonics workbooks (for free), so he's currently doing those, though I do quite a bit of the writing for him. By the end of the year, I think we will make it through the three Grade 1 Pathway readers, as well as some other Grade 1 readers (Christian Liberty Press, God is Good Series by Rod & Staff). So, I think he's on track reading-wise, and I'm fine with his phonics development, though it's K level by Horizons standards (we'll complete that by the end of this year, and maybe go back to some of Rod & Staff).

His penmanship isn't great. His spelling is (I think) on target for a first grader. We're doing Bob Jones math (Horizons was way over his head), which he isn't excelling at, but is holding his own. At the end of this year, he'll have gone through Story of the World Volume 1 (which has not held his interest). I'm eager to do some American history with him. My oldest did MFW Adventures for second grade, but I think I'd prefer to switch to HOD. For science this year, my oldest and he are doing Exploring Creation with Botany (which he doesn't care for either).

My 3yo (will be 4 in December) is VERY eager and is a sponge, so even if I don't specifically target her, I'm sure she'll still absorb plenty. If my oldest has enough time, I know she'd LOVE to teach the 3yo with Little Hands to Heaven.

My others will be 2 in November and the youngest is due at the end of May.

[StillJulie]

I didn't answer about chapter read alouds. He's been listening to the read alouds that I've done with DD1 for MFW 1st grade and MFW Adventures, so I think he'll enjoy anything interesting that I read.

I'm planning to use Rod & Staff math (at grade level) next year for the two oldest (unless you convinced me on Singapore), but I think I've made up my mind.

[Carrie]

StillJulie,

I'm wondering whether you're planning to consider your 5 turning 6 year old a kindergartner this upcoming year or a first grader (for state purposes)? The reason I'm asking, is because it sounds to me like your 5 year old could really benefit from a trip through LHTH. It would help cement all of those kindergarten readiness skills that he's needing (i.e. letters, sounds, formation of letters and numbers, and building fine and large motor skills, etc.). I'm thinking that if your 5 year old is ready for more, you could always add part of the right side of LHFHG such as the Rod and Staff workbooks D and F from LHFHG (which it sounds like you're already partly doing), a handwriting workbook (like A Reason for Writing 'K'), and possibly keep going with the math you're already doing, or switch over to Earlybird K math (which I'd highly recommend) as scheduled on the right side of LHFHG. This would allow you to really focus on the 3 R's with your 5 year old, but also would fill in any missing readiness skills he'll need to be ready for the rest of school.

By placing your 5 year old in LHTH as the core program this year, you could combine that child with your upcoming 4 year old. Then, they could both head into LHFHG the following year together. Your 5 year old, who would then be almost 7, could do the first grade options when he got to LHFHG full-speed. Your almost 4 year old, who would then be almost 5, could do the K options when she got to LFHGH at full-speed.

As far as your almost 8 year old goes, I do think that Beyond sounds like a good fit for that child. I would start the program at half-speed to begin with, moving up to full-speed once you have your older child trained to do his/her program as independently as possible. I would add a handwriting workbook in place of the copywork in Beyond to help solidify the handwriting skills your 8 year old will need. You can use any handwriting workbook you choose. We carry "A Reason for Handwriting 'A' which would work well for that purpose.

I would also highly recommend Singapore math level 1A/1B for this child, along with the hands-on activities included in Beyond. I fear Rod and Staff math will be way too much writing for a writing phobic child. There are many, many practice problems in Rod and Staff Math each day, and it can get to be a bit overwhelming (especially for kiddos who don't love to write). My first born was great at math, but hated to write the problems, so I know how that battle goes! I would also put the 8 year old through a year of the Emerging Reader Set that is scheduled in the Appendix of Beyond, before heading into DITHR the following year. A year of cementing those reading skills with short, systematic readings from the Emerging Reader's Set will do your 8 year old a world of good!

As far as your 4th grader goes, I'd love a little more information on that child to see if Bigger or Preparing would be a better fit overall. To help with that decision, I'm wondering if you could share whether the 4th grader has had much English grammar instruction, has had cursive instruction yet, is able to look up and define words using the dictionary, can copy several sentences easily, is able to read chapter books independently, and whether that child is pretty good at following instructions? I'm sorry to ask so many questions, but placement is such an important part of success in HOD and each family's needs differ. So, by asking questions, I can get a better picture of where your kiddos are at and the mix that may be right for your family's philosophy.

You can easily use Rod and Staff math if you desire with your older child, as long as the number of problems and the writing portion isn't overwhelming for your 4th grader.

Blessings,
Carrie

[my2guys]

I can't answer the question about four programs at once, but I did want to pop in and let you know what I'm doing with my two little guys b/c it echoes what Carrie suggested for you. I'm going through LHTH with my 5 yo and 3 yo and then adding in the right side of LHFHG for my 5 yo (using ARFHW K, Singapore EB 1A/B, Do It Carefully&Finding the Answers and First Reader for phonics). Next year we plan on doing the full LHFHG with the 1st grade options. This plan has worked out wonderfully for us.

[StillJulie]

StillJulie,

I'm wondering whether you're planning to consider your 5 turning 6 year old a kindergartner this upcoming year or a first grader (for state purposes)? The reason I'm asking, is because it sounds to me like your 5 year old could really benefit from a trip through LHTH. It would help cement all of those kindergarten readiness skills that he's needing (i.e. letters, sounds, formation of letters and numbers, and building fine and large motor skills, etc.). I'm thinking that if your 5 year old is ready for more, you could always add part of the right side of LHFHG such as the Rod and Staff workbooks D and F from LHFHG (which it sounds like you're already partly doing), a handwriting workbook (like A Reason for Writing 'K'), and possibly keep going with the math you're already doing, or switch over to Earlybird K math (which I'd highly recommend) as scheduled on the right side of LHFHG. This would allow you to really focus on the 3 R's with your 5 year old, but also would fill in any missing readiness skills he'll need to be ready for the rest of school.

By placing your 5 year old in LHTH as the core program this year, you could combine that child with your upcoming 4 year old. Then, they could both head into LHFHG the following year together. Your 5 year old, who would then be almost 7, could do the first grade options when he got to LHFHG full-speed. Your almost 4 year old, who would then be almost 5, could do the K options when she got to LFHGH at full-speed.

As far as your almost 8 year old goes, I do think that Beyond sounds like a good fit for that child. I would start the program at half-speed to begin with, moving up to full-speed once you have your older child trained to do his/her program as independently as possible. I would add a handwriting workbook in place of the copywork in Beyond to help solidify the handwriting skills your 8 year old will need. You can use any handwriting workbook you choose. We carry "A Reason for Handwriting 'A' which would work well for that purpose.

I would also highly recommend Singapore math level 1A/1B for this child, along with the hands-on activities included in Beyond. I fear Rod and Staff math will be way too much writing for a writing phobic child. There are many, many practice problems in Rod and Staff Math each day, and it can get to be a bit overwhelming (especially for kiddos who don't love to write). My first born was great at math, but hated to write the problems, so I know how that battle goes! I would also put the 8 year old through a year of the Emerging Reader Set that is scheduled in the Appendix of Beyond, before heading into DITHR the following year. A year of cementing those reading skills with short, systematic readings from the Emerging Reader's Set will do your 8 year old a world of good!

As far as your 4th grader goes, I'd love a little more information on that child to see if Bigger or Preparing would be a better fit overall. To help with that decision, I'm wondering if you could share whether the 4th grader has had much English grammar instruction, has had cursive instruction yet, is able to look up and define words using the dictionary, can copy several sentences easily, is able to read chapter books independently, and whether that child is pretty good at following instructions? I'm sorry to ask so many questions, but placement is such an important part of success in HOD and each family's needs differ. So, by asking questions, I can get a better picture of where your kiddos are at and the mix that may be right for your family's philosophy.

You can easily use Rod and Staff math if you desire with your older child, as long as the number of problems and the writing portion isn't overwhelming for your 4th grader.

Blessings,
Carrie

My five year old (six in November) will be doing his kindergarten year starting this fall. He has done a little of LHTH, though he'd lost interest around E. I don't remember if that was this year or the year before. That sounds like a good plan to do LHFRG with him and the next one the following year. They could do LHTH together this year (with some supplementation for him), and the LHFHG the following year. Yay! One decision made...

I'll take another look at Singapore for my next oldest. Before having children, I was a high school math teacher, and I can't believe how much grief I've been through in trying to find math programs for my kids. The oldest two are definitely not mathematically inclined. Bob Jones is fine, but it's just too much money. I think Singapore is pretty comparable to Rod & Staff, so the $ shouldn't be an issue as far as choosing between those two. I'll go with the Emerging Readers for him as well. I had planned to do the Rod & Staff second grade spelling (what the oldest has always done), but may hold off on that as I've read such good things about your spelling methods. He will have completed the first half of First Language Lessons at the end of this year, and I'd planned to continue with that (second half) for next year (as opposed to Rod & Staff English 2). How does that sound? That's actually one of the things/subjects he doesn't mind about school. I think that takes care of him.

For the will be fourth grader... She did First Language Lessons for first and second grade and is currently doing Rod & Staff English 3, as well as Daily Grams 3 and Easy Grammar 3. She will complete A Reason for Handwriting 3rd grade (cursive) this year. She can look up and define words with a dictionary. She can copy several sentences, but it isn't something that she enjoys. She prefers to write her own thoughts and ideas. She reads chapter books independently (about fifth to sixth grade level - loved the Elsie Dinsmore books), is definitely a voracious reader. She is doing the 3rd grade DITHOR this year, and I'm planning the fourth grade for her for next year. Oh, she's also doing Rod & Staff's 3rd grade reading this year (OT and then workbooks for comprehension). She works well independently and follows instructions pretty well. (also loves to instruct others... loves teaching the younger siblings!) She will actually finish Rod & Staff's fourth grade spelling this year, so she's ahead in that. She won't finish Horizons third grade math, unless I have her work through the summer. Right now we're on target to finish everything (except that) by mid-May (before new baby), and I may just not finish the horizons, as I don't think she'll have a problem with Rod & Staff's fourth grade math. She'll make it to about lesson 125 out of 160 at our current rate. I'm hoping it will be a relief for her, rather than a subject to dread and dawdle through. I have shortened assignments quite regularly when I think there's overkill with Rod & Staff, and won't hesitate to do that with the math. She had started with Math U See, but then switched to Horizons. There were some holes, so I started her back a bit (which is why she's behind).


I really appreciate you taking the time to personally help with this placement. It's so hard to make decisions when so much money (for us) is involved, and the more information and guidance you can give me, the better.

[my3sons]

Hi Julie! I feel like I should stay I'm "stillJulie" too because I have begun typing a post to your questions twice now, and every time I am going to finish them, I read something more and revise them - so I guess I'm "stillJulie" here in this post now too! I had previously suggested the 2 in LHTH, and I had also thought Beyond with Emerging Readers and HW added in instead too - we are SO on the same page here Julie! I'd give the Singapore math a try - it's an awesome combination with the Beyond hands-on math. (I love math and am quite particular about it - I have been happy with Singapore and the hands-on in HOD.) I'd also give the spelling methods in Beyond a good solid try before subbing in R & S Spelling. I did R & S spelling along with the HOD spelling/copywork (and at older levels dictation) for a while. I then realized that my ds was not remembering words from R & S as well as spelling correctly from what he'd done in HOD. I dropped the R & S Spelling, and things have gone much better now. As far as the First Language Lessons, if you are enjoying that, you may as well finish it. On the fifth day of the LA box of plans in Beyond there is a grammar lesson. You can choose to still do that, skip that and just do FLL, or maybe you'll like it well enough to just do that in place of FLL eventually. Any of those options would be just fine. O.k. - now, for your oldest - I'm going to start a new reply below... (I'm still figuring out some aspects of the "quote" feature)...
In Christ,
Julie

[my3sons]

For the will be fourth grader... She did First Language Lessons for first and second grade and is currently doing Rod & Staff English 3, as well as Daily Grams 3 and Easy Grammar 3. She will complete A Reason for Handwriting 3rd grade (cursive) this year. She can look up and define words with a dictionary. She can copy several sentences, but it isn't something that she enjoys. She prefers to write her own thoughts and ideas. She reads chapter books independently (about fifth to sixth grade level - loved the Elsie Dinsmore books), is definitely a voracious reader. She is doing the 3rd grade DITHOR this year, and I'm planning the fourth grade for her for next year. Oh, she's also doing Rod & Staff's 3rd grade reading this year (OT and then workbooks for comprehension). She works well independently and follows instructions pretty well. (also loves to instruct others... loves teaching the younger siblings!) She will actually finish Rod & Staff's fourth grade spelling this year, so she's ahead in that. She won't finish Horizons third grade math, unless I have her work through the summer. Right now we're on target to finish everything (except that) by mid-May (before new baby), and I may just not finish the horizons, as I don't think she'll have a problem with Rod & Staff's fourth grade math. She'll make it to about lesson 125 out of 160 at our current rate. I'm hoping it will be a relief for her, rather than a subject to dread and dawdle through. I have shortened assignments quite regularly when I think there's overkill with Rod & Staff, and won't hesitate to do that with the math. She had started with Math U See, but then switched to Horizons. There were some holes, so I started her back a bit (which is why she's behind). I really appreciate you taking the time to personally help with this placement. It's so hard to make decisions when so much money (for us) is involved, and the more information and guidance you can give me, the better.

Well, she's one smart little cookie - and she sure sounds ready for PHFHG - and boy is she in for a lot of fun! We are doing it right now, and I think she'll love it! Looking ahead to next year, I have a few suggestions based on what you said. Please know, these are suggestions only, and you will know what is best. I would do PHFHG. I would order the Economy Package, the Economy Package Science Adder, the Basic Package, and the Deluxe Package for the Newly Independent Reader. I would drop the R & S Spelling, and just do the copywork/dictation in PHFHG. Also, no need to do another level of cursive handwriting. PHFHG will have her writing 3-5 sentences of cursive a day, and the rest is done in print. (It has been a wonderful transition from a cursive workbook to cursive writing in manageable portions in various subjects - as scheduled in PHFHG - for my ds this year.) I would drop the extra R & S Reading, and just do DITHOR as scheduled 3 days a week in PHFHG - I know she's an avid reader, but the Deluxe History Package I mentioned ordering above is matched to the history, has awesome independent history assignments she will love, and is just awesome! That paired with DITHOR should satisfy your little honey's passion for reading (plus she can always just read for fun on the side).

I would also stop the Daily Grams and Easy Grammar, and just either finish R & S English 3, if she doesn't finish this year - and then do R & S English 4 at half-speed, stretching it out over the next 2 years. Level 4 is a jump. It is advanced. Many people just try to get through R & S English 6 by the end of 8th. grade. For math, anything would work. We enjoy Singapore, but many moms use other math programs with HOD too. So, if you like the idea of doing R & S math - great - and I think your thought of pairing down the work so it is not overkill is a good one. With letting go of a few of the extras I mentioned, I think your dd would have time to possibly teach the LHTH duo a bit each day, since it sounds like she would enjoy that anyway - what a blessing! My oldest sister had her dd do this, and she just had her check off whatever boxes she'd done with the dc. By the end of the day, my sis just did the leftover LHTH boxes then.

And, PHFHG is a 4 day plan - WOO HOO! So, if you have extras you want to have your oldest dd do (or even just let her explore some handicrafts, teach all of a day's plans of LHTH, read more for fun - whatever - you'd have Day 5 free to do that). These are all just thoughts. I have prayed for you and your family the last several days, Julie. God will make clear what you should do - I am sure. The ladies on this board, Carrie and I included, like to help you sort through ideas and options. But, when it's all said and done, you need to do what you think is best and feel at peace with. Hope something here helped - and please share your thoughts after you get a chance to ponder more. How blessed your dc are to have a mom weighing carefully what to do!

In Christ,
Julie

[StillJulie]

Hope something here helped - and please share your thoughts after you get a chance to ponder more. How blessed your dc are to have a mom weighing carefully what to do!

In Christ,
Julie

I'm feeling fairly settled on a plan for next year:

Beyond w/Emerging readers for my second grader; I don't know whether to get the level 1 or level 2 math for him. The 1 would probably be good with the hands on activities that are written into the guide. I'm not real comfortable with him doing level 1 when in second grade, though. I'm looking through the read alouds to try to decide which to use for each genre. I'll probably pull some from the classic set and some from the boy set. I should probably finish some sort of phonics instruction with him too. I have Rod & Staff, Phonics Pathways, and Turbo Reader... not that he likes any of them.

Preparing for my fourth grader; I don't know if jumping into Singapore at this level would be very manageable or if I should get Rod & Staff for her math. I'll get the English 4 from Rod & Staff for her. I probably will still get Daily Grams 4 for her, too. I haven't decided on the 5th grade Rod & Staff spelling. She'll do the 4th grade DITHOR, also the Deluxe package with more reading. I'm not sure if there are any books in the Extension package that I would get for her or not. I might see what I can get from the library and have them available to her, but not required. I also do Latin for Children, keyboarding (Type to Learn), piano (Faber), art (Stebbings), and home ec (Pearables) as time permits, so her schedule is plenty full. I don't know if I have any of the Pathway Readers beyond 4th grade. If I don't, I may try to order the next one or two of those. She's always enjoyed reading them. I'm not sure if I ought to get the Language Lessons for the Elementary Child (or Igniting Your Writing) for her, or if I should hold off on that.

I have LHTH and the books that go with it, so I (or my daughter) will use that with the kindergartener and preschooler. I may get the LHFHG guide and add some things from that for the kindergartener, including The Reading Lesson (unless I get Reading Made Easy, or just use the Turbo Reader or Phonics Pathways I already have), a handwriting book, and the Earlybird math. I've also used the Get Ready, Set, and Go for the Code books at this level, so I may use those some if he's interested and seems to be there ability-wise.

[my3sons]

StillJulie - Well, I think your plan sounds wonderful! There are a few links that may be helpful - here is a link to the Singapore online math placement test. It is free, accurate, and does not take long - just click on "placement" at the top of the screen:
http://www.singaporemath.com/

Here is a link to posts about phonics:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2503&p=18559&hilit= ... ces#p18559

In Christ,
Julie

[8arrows]

Your plan looks to be coming along nicely, but it still looks like you have a lot of language arts for the 4th grader. If she is doing Rod and Staff 4, honestly, that is enough. I think HOD is using Igniting Your Writing into the older guides (don't qoute me on that, but you might want to check). I have used Daily Grams, and I don't think you need them if you are doing Rod and Staff 4. I know your pain; I am want to do everything great out there as well, but my oldest will often say, "You're not doubling up on me now, are you?" (smile) That's what I get for having a 15 year old. I am in the midst of making my plans for next year too (before our new baby arrives). It is fun and agonizing to plan at the same time, isn't it.

[Carrie]

StillJulie,

The ladies have done a wonderful job of talking through options with you. It sounds like you have a good plan in place and are moving forward. I would definitely give the Singapore placement test at the link Julie gave you. The math test is very accurate in helping you find the correct placement.

I would also echo the placement for your daughter in Preparing Hearts. I'd plan to spend some time training your daughter on using the Preparing guide pretty independently, except for those areas that require discussion and interaction with you. It will take a little bit for her to hit her stride, so you may want to begin the HOD guides in stages (starting with whoever needs you most first).

I'd also agree that you are heavy on the language arts in your older daughter's schedule. Rod and Staff 4 alone is definitely enough for grammar instruction. I would drop all the rest. DITHR is also more than enough for literature study, so if you want to hold on to the Rod and Staff readers just have them be for her free time enjoyment. For spelling, I'd either do Rod and Staff spelling OR the dictation from Preparing, but not both. Of course, I'm partial to dictation, but you'll have to decide which is a better fit for you.

All of the workbooks take additional time for you to check and to go over with your daughter. You'll be surprised how much more time both you and your daughter will have in your day if you go to one thorough coverage of each subject area, rather than doubling or tripling up on them. Just something to ponder!

Blessings,
Carrie