Question on Italic handwriting placement

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water2wine
Posts: 2743
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:24 pm
Location: GA

Question on Italic handwriting placement

Post by water2wine » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:03 pm

I am thinking of moving my kids to Italic for handwriting. I am just thinking we could do better and it does not seem to really be improving. My questions are on my older kids. This is what I have. If anyone can tell me first that they love it :lol: and second what place I should put them all.

I have...
-10 yr old 5th grade does cursive and printing. Her printing is worse than handwriting. I am thinking that is because she learned in ps? But her cursive needs work too.

-then I have three others 8-10 that are learning slant writing (R&S does that not sure every program does just before cursive) so we have...I took her back to printing and had her do cursive too it is just not helping as much as I think it should be.

-dd 8 definitely the neatest of all but she is also very artistic. Still think for her practice printing would help a bit but would also like to move on to cursive as well.

-ds 9 what can I say he's a boy and he has boy handwriting hehehe! I want to get his printing neater and move to cursive

-dd 10 She's a leftie but not sure she would be a natural leftie I think it is due to her cerebral palsy. She is reading on a lower level and printing on a lower level than that others although I think a little more practice and she would be read for cursive too.

-I also have an almost 4 year old that I am thinking lower level. She actually does very well for her age. She can write all her letters and some words. And a 5 year old that also does well because she does copywork on her own. But I do not want to push either one. I let them push themselves usually I have to slow them down.

And just so you also know I am not picky, picky on this I just want them to have nice writing because I personally do not and I know it gets in the way when people can't read your writing.

So what do you guys think on levels? And please tell me if the program has been great for you. Thanks so much!
All your children shall be taught by the LORD, and great shall be the peace of your children. Isaiah 54:13
~Six lovies from God~4 by blessing of adoption
-MTMM (HS), Rev to Rev, CTC, DITHR
We LOVED LHFHG/Beyond/Bigger/Preparing/CTC/RTR/Rev to Rev (HS)

blessedmomof4
Posts: 1138
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:34 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Post by blessedmomof4 » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:41 pm

Hi- I used Italic handwriting with good results for one of my kids-I find placing them by the suggested levels works fine, because the cursive is very similar to the print! Just naturally flows into the joining of the letters. So, Use A for Kindergarten, B for 1st, C for 2nd, and so on. Now for your lefty, I hope it's ok to suggest a different program altogether.

My lefty son could not write well for beans no matter what, until I tried Handwriting Without Tears. This is a very clean-lined, un-loopy style with very un-cluttered practice pages. Also, the workbooks are "lefty-friendly", because the way the letters and words are set up to copy, you can see then from the left or the right (you know how lefties' hands obstruct the left side of the page!) The only thing is, the cursive does not slant, it is written vertically like print. But it is neat :D

Here's a link to Handwriting Without Tears, scroll down for samples and comparisons to standard programs: http://www.hwtears.com/whyitworks/workbookdesign

You can see samples of all the levels of Italic Handwriting here:
http://www.cep.pdx.edu/titles/italic_se ... rpts.shtml

I hope that helps :)
Lourdes
Wife to Danforth
2 grads 9/19/92,7/8/95
2 in charter school 1/31/98, 9/19/99
3 in Heaven 8/11/06, 8/18/10, 9/13/13
Future HODie is here! 9/14/12

water2wine
Posts: 2743
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:24 pm
Location: GA

Post by water2wine » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:02 am

Thank you that is perfect. That also might be best for my lefty because she is also special needs. Really appreciate it. And I am going to take your advice. Thanks for helping me not to agonize over it. :lol:
All your children shall be taught by the LORD, and great shall be the peace of your children. Isaiah 54:13
~Six lovies from God~4 by blessing of adoption
-MTMM (HS), Rev to Rev, CTC, DITHR
We LOVED LHFHG/Beyond/Bigger/Preparing/CTC/RTR/Rev to Rev (HS)

blessedmomof4
Posts: 1138
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:34 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Post by blessedmomof4 » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:09 am

Glad to be of assistance! I am famous for agonizing over curriculum decisions, and I've been at this for about 11 years :shock: I'd lose my mind without people to talk it over with :lol:
Lourdes
Wife to Danforth
2 grads 9/19/92,7/8/95
2 in charter school 1/31/98, 9/19/99
3 in Heaven 8/11/06, 8/18/10, 9/13/13
Future HODie is here! 9/14/12

Melanie
Posts: 777
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:37 pm
Location: north Missouri

Post by Melanie » Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:02 pm

I've pondered exactly how to word this since last night. I'm just going to give you some information and you can take it or leave it! :wink:

About 15 yrs. ago our school went through this big brew-ha about whether to use ball-and-stick (Zaner-Bloser) or De'Nelian (somewhat like italics). I was the chair for 1st grade, so that meant reading and studing all the info. that the super. gave us. Here's what it boiled down to....

If a child writes neatly, they're going to write neatly with pretty much any program. The not-so-neat seem to stay not-so-neat most of the time. Changing programs *may* produce neater handwriting, but nine times out of ten, you're just going to get a different version of the not-so-neat handwriting.

I sought the advice of an older retired 1st grade teacher and what she said led us to choose the traditional ball-and-stick. Her theory was, that at some point in these dc's lives, they are going to be asked to fill out a form and at the top it is going to say, please print. She felt that the ball-and-stick made for a much better impression.

Now, all that said, I have seem some absolutely beautiful italics, and if done correctly it is lovely. But I have also heard more than one hs mom lamenting the fact that their dc using italics could not read regular cursive at all.

If you are trying to remediate handwriting, I'd say go with HWT. But, like I said at the beginning...take or leave it. You are very wise and I always learn so much reading your posts, so I feel very confident that what you choose will be best for your dc! :D

Melanie
Using LHFHG with
ds - '00
dd - '00
dd - '02

water2wine
Posts: 2743
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:24 pm
Location: GA

Post by water2wine » Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:58 pm

Melanie,

I really appreciate your post! Really I do. And please do not worry about criticizing me. :) I am wanting to know the real deal. And I think you are right.

Can I confess something though. Part of the problem is really me, most of the problem is me. :oops: And part of it is the program I am using I am not liking. It is the only thing of R&S I am not liking. Two problems for me is the slant writing between printing and cursive and the other is driving me crazy. Other big problem is it bores me to tears and I am too lazy to teach it the way they want you to and just plugging them in is not working. They are doing OK and I really think a lot of the lack of progress is me. I am just thinking I want something that actually has the strokes there more and makes an easier transition to cursive. When I looked at the Italic it looks a little easier to be more self instructive and easier to teach what you need to teach. I tend to use their handwriting time as time I work with my little guys doing LHFG and to a lesser extent the other way around. So I am not really doing my job teaching it. But they also have it set up more where it is the teacher teaching ti to the class. So uh...we need a teacher hehehe!

So that is I guess what I did not share but probably should have. And I also liked the idea of plugging them into the StartWrite where I could type in the poems and Proverbs of the week and kill two birds with one stone. Also my five year old and even almost four love to do copy work. So I was thinking it could be great for that as well. Does that make sense?

So knowing that, what do you think?
All your children shall be taught by the LORD, and great shall be the peace of your children. Isaiah 54:13
~Six lovies from God~4 by blessing of adoption
-MTMM (HS), Rev to Rev, CTC, DITHR
We LOVED LHFHG/Beyond/Bigger/Preparing/CTC/RTR/Rev to Rev (HS)

Melanie
Posts: 777
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:37 pm
Location: north Missouri

Post by Melanie » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:23 pm

:D The more of your posts that I read, the more alike I think we are! I totally understand where you're coming from.
I think step 1 would be to ditch the R&S (easier to say than do, you should have seem me trying to ditch explode the code :roll: )
Step 2 would be to invest a few months in really teaching good printing strokes and I LOVE Handwriting without tears for this. They show step by step on each page exactly how to make the stroke (so you would have some independence with this). After they have printing (and cursive whenever you're ready) down pat, then move on to step 3 with the StartWrite program. I have so badly wanted to use this program so please let me know if you do use it and if you like it.

I hope this makes sense. And PLEASE don't think I was being critical of your choice, I just always feel this uncontrolable urge to help and can't seem to stop myself! :?
Using LHFHG with
ds - '00
dd - '00
dd - '02

water2wine
Posts: 2743
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:24 pm
Location: GA

Post by water2wine » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:59 pm

Melanie wrote::D I hope this makes sense. And PLEASE don't think I was being critical of your choice, I just always feel this uncontrollable urge to help and can't seem to stop myself! :?
Not at ALL! I appreciate it. I really mean that! Honest. :D And guess what the StartWrite program has both Italic and HWWT! So that makes it a done deal for me for this one reason. I can do the Bible Copy work and poetry in cursive or manuscript in either of those for BHFG (four kids using one book uh...done deal). So I am really ready to dump the R&S I've been using it for a year and still am not teaching it hahaha! To tell myself I will and that I will like to tech it would be a bald face lie, so might as well admit that and move on to greener pastures. :lol: BTW I have that same uncontrollable urge to help. Trying to curb that but so far no luck, hahaha!
Just finished one of those posts myself on HSR.

OK so I guess what I will do is have an honest look at the two types. I do think I will try to go with one program either way but the good thing about that is the writestart covers both (even though I see that it really has to be an extra and not THE program we use because I will be repeating the same thing with that.) But a good idea I think might be to download the program and see what is easier just right off the bat for my dd and ds that struggle the most then everyone else comes along for the ride. It's not exactly a fair test but that and me really looking over the two and tr to be honest with myself about which one I can teach better or I guess will be more motivated to teach. But either way I am tossing R&S. After moving to HOD with all of them I see now beating your head against the wall is not worth it. I am all for the easy sailing experience I am having with HOD why let something like penmanship ruin that. And I do think since we are talking about something not completely major, tossing is what will be the plan :wink:
All your children shall be taught by the LORD, and great shall be the peace of your children. Isaiah 54:13
~Six lovies from God~4 by blessing of adoption
-MTMM (HS), Rev to Rev, CTC, DITHR
We LOVED LHFHG/Beyond/Bigger/Preparing/CTC/RTR/Rev to Rev (HS)

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