Placement Chart Questions?

[christianmom]

My children are now 16, 14, 13, and 11. They were 12, 10, 8, and 6 the last time we were using HOD. I am considering HOD again for next fall; I think my two primary reasons are the following: I have some concerns that I am not assigning enough for college preparation, and I am finding it increasingly difficult to find the time to finish the homeschool planning that needs to be accomplished for each school year.

My initial post listed the various curriculum I have been using for each of them for each subject this year, and the CM elements such as written and oral narrations that I have continued to have them do as a part of their home school studies. I went ahead and erased that information, and after reading a few other posts I am gong to try to answer the questions that were posted in answer to my initial post.

Thank you for this board where we can post questions regarding HOD!

[Rice]

While knowing what they are are doing is helpful, could you also share your observations of where they place in the guides, based on the placement chart? (https://www.heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php) Many of the things you mention we may or may not be familiar with, but, more importantly, your observations as their mother, since we can't see their quality of work or daily struggles, is far more valuable than where they are coming from.

One other thought: where they are at in grammar is largely irrelevant in the fact that there are options for grammar in each guide, and it looks like your kids are significantly ahead of where HOD schedules grammar. For example, your one doing 7th grade math is in R&S 6 which HOD schedules to complete by the end of 8th grade. Your son in 10th is doing the level of grammar HOD schedules across 11th and 12th. That doesn't mean they should go into the 9th grade and 12th grade guides next year (especially when you consider that each guide can easily qualify for credit for 3 grades or more).

Looking at the placement charts, which guide (or which guides) do you see them as closest to placing in, if you consider each one independently of the others?

Blessings,

[christianmom]

Looking at the placement charts, which guide (or which guides) do you see them as closest to placing in, if you consider each one independently of the others?

Blessings,

Thank you for your post Rice, and for your question. I will do my best to answer. I am going to go down the placement chart I have open for each of them for the first 5 rows; maybe, I just need to talk this through with moms who know HOD better than I do.

My dd13:
Age: RevtoRev, MTMM, WG
Reading: RevtoRev, MTMM
Reading / Formal Literature Study: She hasn't had a formal literature study.
Writing: RTR or RevetoRev
Grammar: She has finished 1/2 of book 6 of Rod and Staff so MTMM
Math: Rev2Rev or MTMM
Would she use Rev2Rev or MTMM?

My ds14:
Age: MTMM, WG, WH
Reading: MTMM or WG
Reading / Formal Literature Study: He hasn't had a formal literature study.
Writing: Rev2Rev
Grammar: He has finished Rod and Staff book 6, and 1/2 of Christian Light Language Arts/Grammar 700 so WG
Math: MTMM or WG
Would he use MTMM or WG?

My ds16:
Age: WH, US History I, US History II
Reading: His reading is college level, but he hasn't done a formal literature study.
Writing: WG, WH, US History ? (we have worked a little on essays. He writes with complex sentences, and he organizes his writing well. His written narrations are typically 2 - 5 paragraphs in length and sometimes longer (6 - 7 paragraphs). He hasn't done a research paper, but he does do research on his own).
Grammar: He has completed approximately 1/4 of R&S 7, 1/4 of R&S 8, and Christian Light 900 English I. Skip Grammar? English I with CLE was a mix of R&S 8 and 9.
Math: He is currently studying Pre-Calculus: US History II
History: WG or WH. US History I ? He has done oral narrations since he was little, but I have never worked on specific types of oral narrations.
Science: He is currently studying Dr. Wiles AP Advanced Chemistry that follows Discovering Design with Chemistry by Dr. Wiles.
The placement chart doesn't include US History I or II, but in some areas it is possible US History I would be a good fit for him.
WH or US History I without grammar, and with his own science and math ?

Would my dd13 use Rev2Rev or MTMM? Would my ds14 use MTMM or WG? Would my ds16 use WG or WH or US History I or US History II?

Thank you ladies for your help.

[Rice]

That is very helpful! Thanks for writing it all out for us!

My first two cents are that when uncertain between two guides, go with the lower one. Especially with multiple students to teach! And the fact that in their writing you assess them in a lower guide would support that, as well, since there is a fair bit of writing across most subjects. The more they can be independent, the less hand-holding that they need, the easier it will be for you to support them (and stay on top of grading! ).

Another thought for you is that MTMM is high school credit worthy, with the possible exception of wanting to add to science; but with you using your own, all HOD subjects that you would be using can be counted for high school. Rev2Rev can even be used for most subjects, too! (I have used both for high school for 2 of my children, with higher science and LA!)

I really hope Carrie or Julie (Carrie's sister and editor: my3sons is her username) chime in with their thoughts for you, though, because they know this so much better than I! They will have some definite advice for placement for you. They often update the Message Boards on the weekend, but may be here sooner.
Blessings,

[spiderpetal]

Hello,

I agree with Rice that when in doubt go with the lower level. You can always beef up the science and literature if needed with out too much extra work on your part.

I personally like to have every subject scheduled (except math) as we tend to be more consistent. Also Carrie’s writing across the curriculum is not to be missed (which sometimes happens when we try to do our own thing for a box). So I choose to use a scheduled Science from a higher level guide if I want A higher level science.

Here are my thoughts based on where your kids placed on the chart. Your Dd 13 sounds like Rev to Rev would be a good place for her. There is a good amount of writing in this guide so I would think this would be a good place to start as you mentioned her writing is between RtR and Rev to Rev. It would set her up nicely for MtMM. She has already completed 1/2 of Book 6 of Rod and Staff so you could just have her follow the guide to use first 1/2 ofbook 6 again as review while she is getting used to the other work in this guide, or you could take a break from grammar and pick up the second half of book 6 of R&S in MtMM (I have done this and it worked fine). I would use level 6/7 books for DITHOR along with student book 6/7/8 which will work well for literature studies. Then you can save 7/8 books for MtMM. Math can be a continuation of what she’s doing now or Singapore 5a/b or 6a/b. Both are scheduled in Rev to Rev.

Your Ds 14 looks like would fit into MtMM. He can take a break from grammar and focus on writing. Then pick up book 7 of rod and staff in WG guide for a good review. He can use 7/8 books with DITHOR and 6/7/8 Student Book. The literature in WG is excellent, but writing skills need to be on level to get the most out of this. So I would use this year to focus on writing before getting to the highschool guides. I am assuming he is going to be an 8th grader. If he is going into 9th let us know because that would change my thoughts. As far as math goes he can keep going where he is at or pick up pre-algebra or Algebra. Science is really fun in this guide and works well for 8th. Keep in mind you can make MtMM highschool worthy as needed.

Ds 16 looks like may have a bit more of a choice here. I would lean toward WH as it has a year of Essentials of Writing. This is a great overview of the writing process, research papers, well as essay writing. If you feel he is doing well in these areas already then US1 would be good. It also depends on how many years of highschool he has left. If he has 3 years left then I lean towards WH. It’s a great overview of history. If he only has 2 years left then I would lean towards US1. Both of these years has excellent literature and writing across the curriculum. Math and science he is clearly excelling in and can continue those. I will say that the science in US2 is so fun, but I love astronomy and geology so I’m partial . He can use the grammar as written in either of these guides as a nice overview/review. I have in the past allowed my highschool students to share their opinions as to which guide they would want to do. This might be helpful in your son’s case.

These are just some of my thoughts. I’m sure others may have other ideas which might work better for you. I know Carrie and Julie will have some good ideas as well.

Hope this helps,
Kristen

[christianmom]

That is very helpful! Thanks for writing it all out for us!

My first two cents are that when uncertain between two guides, go with the lower one. Especially with multiple students to teach! And the fact that in their writing you assess them in a lower guide would support that, as well, since there is a fair bit of writing across most subjects. The more they can be independent, the less hand-holding that they need, the easier it will be for you to support them (and stay on top of grading! ).

Another thought for you is that MTMM is high school credit worthy, with the possible exception of wanting to add to science; but with you using your own, all HOD subjects that you would be using can be counted for high school. Rev2Rev can even be used for most subjects, too! (I have used both for high school for 2 of my children, with higher science and LA!)

I really hope Carrie or Julie (Carrie's sister and editor: my3sons is her username) chime in with their thoughts for you, though, because they know this so much better than I! They will have some definite advice for placement for you. They often update the Message Boards on the weekend, but may be here sooner.
Blessings,

Thank you Rice for your insights! I found your post to be helpful. I can see how the lower guides of Rev2Rev and MTMM would fit my dd13 and ds14 well; there would be plenty of writing which is one of the areas I am wanting to work on more.

I am hoping Carrie or Julie will chime in as well; I would be interested to hear their thoughts on my oldest who is at the High school level.

Thank you!

Hello,

I agree with Rice that when in doubt go with the lower level. You can always beef up the science and literature if needed with out too much extra work on your part.

I personally like to have every subject scheduled (except math) as we tend to be more consistent. Also Carrie’s writing across the curriculum is not to be missed (which sometimes happens when we try to do our own thing for a box). So I choose to use a scheduled Science from a higher level guide if I want A higher level science.

Here are my thoughts based on where your kids placed on the chart. Your Dd 13 sounds like Rev to Rev would be a good place for her. There is a good amount of writing in this guide so I would think this would be a good place to start as you mentioned her writing is between RtR and Rev to Rev. It would set her up nicely for MtMM. She has already completed 1/2 of Book 6 of Rod and Staff so you could just have her follow the guide to use first 1/2 ofbook 6 again as review while she is getting used to the other work in this guide, or you could take a break from grammar and pick up the second half of book 6 of R&S in MtMM (I have done this and it worked fine). I would use level 6/7 books for DITHOR along with student book 6/7/8 which will work well for literature studies. Then you can save 7/8 books for MtMM. Math can be a continuation of what she’s doing now or Singapore 5a/b or 6a/b. Both are scheduled in Rev to Rev.

Your Ds 14 looks like would fit into MtMM. He can take a break from grammar and focus on writing. Then pick up book 7 of rod and staff in WG guide for a good review. He can use 7/8 books with DITHOR and 6/7/8 Student Book. The literature in WG is excellent, but writing skills need to be on level to get the most out of this. So I would use this year to focus on writing before getting to the highschool guides. I am assuming he is going to be an 8th grader. If he is going into 9th let us know because that would change my thoughts. As far as math goes he can keep going where he is at or pick up pre-algebra or Algebra. Science is really fun in this guide and works well for 8th. Keep in mind you can make MtMM highschool worthy as needed.

Ds 16 looks like may have a bit more of a choice here. I would lean toward WH as it has a year of Essentials of Writing. This is a great overview of the writing process, research papers, well as essay writing. If you feel he is doing well in these areas already then US1 would be good. It also depends on how many years of highschool he has left. If he has 3 years left then I lean towards WH. It’s a great overview of history. If he only has 2 years left then I would lean towards US1. Both of these years has excellent literature and writing across the curriculum. Math and science he is clearly excelling in and can continue those. I will say that the science in US2 is so fun, but I love astronomy and geology so I’m partial . He can use the grammar as written in either of these guides as a nice overview/review. I have in the past allowed my highschool students to share their opinions as to which guide they would want to do. This might be helpful in your son’s case.

These are just some of my thoughts. I’m sure others may have other ideas which might work better for you. I know Carrie and Julie will have some good ideas as well.

Hope this helps,
Kristen

Thank you Kristen for your help! I appreciate both of your insights to go with the lower levels. I can see how Rev2Rev could help my dd13 grow and move forward without overwhelming her in the area of writing (her reading is strong). I can also see how MTMM would fit my ds14, and he would love a year off from grammar! MTMM would give him a chance to grow into a more rigorous reading and writing schedule before High school. It sounds like WH might be a better fit for my ds16 since he is needing more work in areas such as research and essay writing; we have done some, but we have focused more on narrations. He does have 3 years of High school left so that would be a good reason to use WH as well.

Thank you!

[Carrie]

Hello! We are glad to have you here!

The ladies are doing a terrific job of helping you talk through placement options. I really echo what they are saying. I agree that your 13 year old seems to fit well in Revival to Revolution. This takes into account what you've shared about writing and the fact that she hasn't done a formal literature program yet. I also agree that grammar level isn't necessarily a key factor in placement in HOD.

As far as your 14 year old goes, I think I would lean toward Revival to Revolution or MTMM. If you think your 14 year old would combine well with your 13 year old, I do think Revival to Revolution could fit your 14 year old. This is due to the fact that for writing your 14 year old seems to fit in Revival to Revolution and is also due to your 14 year old not having formal literature study yet. Working on writing skills and doing DITHR will be important for both your 13 and 14 year old, especially since they are on the verge of high school. If you placed your 14 year old in MTMM, it is possible you may never get to DITHR with that child as the weight of MTMM may take away the time needed for DITHR. However, if your 14 year old is a strong reader, good writer, and very independent worker, who prefers to work on his own, then MTMM would be a better fit. What did your 14 year old do for history last year? Is he a strong reader, used to writing multiple times a day pretty easily, and good at following written directions to work independently? He will need these skills to succeed in MTMM.

As far as your 16 year old goes, I am leaning toward WH for him. It will be really good for him to do a formal literature study. The writing across the curriculum will be good for him as well, along with Essentials in Writing Grade 11 as scheduled in the guide. I would be inclined to have him do the last 1/2 of Rod and Staff English 7 as scheduled in WH, since he hasn't completed that yet. Then, I would have him follow the path of doing Rod and Staff English 8 over 2 years in the last two HOD guides. Even though he did the first 1/4 of Rod and Staff English 8, the steady path through Rod and Staff 8 over two years will be a good complement writing-wise to the rest of the English scheduled in the guides. It looks like he won't be needing the science within the guide. He should benefit for the rest of the WH as written. What did your son do for history for his freshman year? If he hasn't had any geography yet, there is that to consider as well as we are finding his best placement.

Blessings,
Carrie

[christianmom]

Hello! We are glad to have you here!

The ladies are doing a terrific job of helping you talk through placement options. I really echo what they are saying. I agree that your 13 year old seems to fit well in Revival to Revolution. This takes into account what you've shared about writing and the fact that she hasn't done a formal literature program yet. I also agree that grammar level isn't necessarily a key factor in placement in HOD.

As far as your 14 year old goes, I think I would lean toward Revival to Revolution or MTMM. If you think your 14 year old would combine well with your 13 year old, I do think Revival to Revolution could fit your 14 year old. This is due to the fact that for writing your 14 year old seems to fit in Revival to Revolution and is also due to your 14 year old not having formal literature study yet. Working on writing skills and doing DITHR will be important for both your 13 and 14 year old, especially since they are on the verge of high school. If you placed your 14 year old in MTMM, it is possible you may never get to DITHR with that child as the weight of MTMM may take away the time needed for DITHR. However, if your 14 year old is a strong reader, good writer, and very independent worker, who prefers to work on his own, then MTMM would be a better fit. What did your 14 year old do for history last year? Is he a strong reader, used to writing multiple times a day pretty easily, and good at following written directions to work independently? He will need these skills to succeed in MTMM.

As far as your 16 year old goes, I am leaning toward WH for him. It will be really good for him to do a formal literature study. The writing across the curriculum will be good for him as well, along with Essentials in Writing Grade 11 as scheduled in the guide. I would be inclined to have him do the last 1/2 of Rod and Staff English 7 as scheduled in WH, since he hasn't completed that yet. Then, I would have him follow the path of doing Rod and Staff English 8 over 2 years in the last two HOD guides. Even though he did the first 1/4 of Rod and Staff English 8, the steady path through Rod and Staff 8 over two years will be a good complement writing-wise to the rest of the English scheduled in the guides. It looks like he won't be needing the science within the guide. He should benefit for the rest of the WH as written. What did your son do for history for his freshman year? If he hasn't had any geography yet, there is that to consider as well as we are finding his best placement.

Blessings,
Carrie

Thank you Carrie for taking the time to respond with your thoughts regarding placement for my children!

Revival to Revolution does sound like the best fit for my dd13. I know that placement is very important for HOD so I appreciate the confirmation from all of you.

My ds14 did Mystery of History volume 4 last year for history; it included mapping, timeline, and I added three written narrations a week for him to do. His narrations, last year, were generally 1 - 2 paragraphs long. This year he has been doing Uncle Sam Civics that includes some vocabulary, literature reading, writing, and textbook reading. He is a strong reader. He is used to writing twice a day for three days a week between history and science. His grammar has been some oral and some written. He can follow written directions, and he works independently for history and science. I help him with grammar and math. Does this sound more like MTMM or Rev2Rev?

My ds16 did Mystery of History Volume 4 for his freshman year; it also included mapping, timeline, and three written narrations a week. His narrations were generally 2 - 3 paragraphs long. He also did some Diana Waring with it that included extra literature reading, reading, and audio listening. Your plan for his grammar and WH sounds like a good fit to me.

I will add that all three of them are very strong readers, and they have participated in the Lamplighter reading challenge each summer. They read numerous Lamplighter literature books throughout the year.

Thank you for your help!

[Carrie]

Thanks so much for sharing a bit more about your kiddos! Based on what you've shared, I think your 14 year old could probably handle MTMM, however if you desired to keep your 13 and 14 year old together (and they work well together), you could do Revival to Revolution with both of them instead. This would give you an opportunity to keep them together moving forward if you felt this worked well. Since they are so close in age, it is possible to combine them. If you instead felt they would thrive with each having their own guide, then separating them into Rev2Rev and MTMM would also work. If you did begin with the pair in Rev2Rev and felt later they would do better apart, you could always bump your son up to MTMM and keep your daughter in Rev2Rev. Sometimes it becomes more clear what the best fit is as you get underway.

Revival to Revolution Samples: https://www.heartofdakota.com/pdf/Rev2R ... t-week.pdf
Mission to Modern Marvels Samples: https://www.heartofdakota.com/pdf/MTMM-week.pdf

As far as your 16 year old goes, since he hasn't had geography recently, and since he hasn't had much in the way of formal writing or literature study, you could consider World Geography for him instead of World History. With the math and science taken out of the equation, it is more open to him to do either World Geography or World History. Since he is new to Heart of Dakota, World Geography could be a good gateway guide to consider. It would also give him some foreign language, logic, and a great introduction to literature and writing. World Geography uses Essentials in Writing Grade 10 and the first half of Rod and Staff English 7. If he did go the World Geography route, he would leave off the final guide in the HOD high school series. I just wanted to mention this option for you to consider as well. As you look at the samples for both guides, perhaps you can picture where he would fit best. Remember that the guides get more intensive as far as writing, reading, and time as you go higher up. The World Geography guide takes about 6 hours a day/four days a week for all subjects including math, science, grammar, writing, etc. The World History guide bumps up a half hour or so each day/four days a week.

World Geography Samples: https://www.heartofdakota.com/pdf/WGSampleWeek.pdf
World History Samples: https://www.heartofdakota.com/pdf/World ... -Plans.pdf

Feel free to pop back and share your thoughts!

Blessings,
Carrie

[christianmom]

Thanks so much for sharing a bit more about your kiddos! Based on what you've shared, I think your 14 year old could probably handle MTMM, however if you desired to keep your 13 and 14 year old together (and they work well together), you could do Revival to Revolution with both of them instead. This would give you an opportunity to keep them together moving forward if you felt this worked well. Since they are so close in age, it is possible to combine them. If you instead felt they would thrive with each having their own guide, then separating them into Rev2Rev and MTMM would also work. If you did begin with the pair in Rev2Rev and felt later they would do better apart, you could always bump your son up to MTMM and keep your daughter in Rev2Rev. Sometimes it becomes more clear what the best fit is as you get underway.

Revival to Revolution Samples: https://www.heartofdakota.com/pdf/Rev2R ... t-week.pdf
Mission to Modern Marvels Samples: https://www.heartofdakota.com/pdf/MTMM-week.pdf

As far as your 16 year old goes, since he hasn't had geography recently, and since he hasn't had much in the way of formal writing or literature study, you could consider World Geography for him instead of World History. With the math and science taken out of the equation, it is more open to him to do either World Geography or World History. Since he is new to Heart of Dakota, World Geography could be a good gateway guide to consider. It would also give him some foreign language, logic, and a great introduction to literature and writing. World Geography uses Essentials in Writing Grade 10 and the first half of Rod and Staff English 7. If he did go the World Geography route, he would leave off the final guide in the HOD high school series. I just wanted to mention this option for you to consider as well. As you look at the samples for both guides, perhaps you can picture where he would fit best. Remember that the guides get more intensive as far as writing, reading, and time as you go higher up. The World Geography guide takes about 6 hours a day/four days a week for all subjects including math, science, grammar, writing, etc. The World History guide bumps up a half hour or so each day/four days a week.

World Geography Samples: https://www.heartofdakota.com/pdf/WGSampleWeek.pdf
World History Samples: https://www.heartofdakota.com/pdf/World ... -Plans.pdf

Feel free to pop back and share your thoughts!

Blessings,
Carrie

Thank you for all of your placement help.

The samples really did help to look at with each one of them in mind and with your comments in mind as I looked.

The Rev2Rev sample looks like a good fit for my dd13, or even a little bit beyond where she is at. It would stretch her in some areas, be relaxing for her in other areas, and for other parts of it be right where she is at. Rev2Rev looked like a good fit for her. I think she could do well with it.

The MTMM sample looked like a great fit for my ds 14; it looked like it was right where he is at, but it also has some areas that would stretch him. It looked like a good fit for him, and I think he could do well with it.

I did forget a few things my ds16 has done in the past when I looked at the placement chart. He did do a literature study with Generations in 8th grade that was written for 7th - 9th graders. He also did Susan Wise Bauer's Writing With Skill in 7th grade which was both a literature study and composition lessons. He read and talked a great deal about Master Book's Logic book for 9th grade. He did Exploring Countries and Cultures, by MFW, in 4th grade (geography and missions). His 9th grade English credit was reading difficult literature from Lamplighter literature books, English 9 with CLE, and some composition lessons from R&S 7 & R&S 8. He also has completed one High school credit of Spanish using Rosetta Stone. When I looked at the samples and thought of him doing the work WH looked like a good fit for him; it seemed like WG wouldn't stretch him, and he does better when he is being challenged and stretched. He read Ben Hur for English for 9th, but he hasn't done a study or annotation or assignments with the book that WH would offer. I think a study of it would stretch him beyond his enjoyment of reading it. Does this additional information sound more like WG or WH?

Thank you for your help and time!

[Carrie]

Thanks so much for popping back to share a bit more of your thoughts as you place each of your kiddos. I can feel a really good plan coming together. It does sound like your 13 year old daughter will be well placed in Revival to Revolution and that you 14-year-old son will do well in MTMM. We usually want about 1/3 of the day in a guide to be challenging, 1/3 of the day to be right on level, and 1/3 of the day to be easier. That seems to give kiddos a good balance and a good fit.

I really appreciate you taking the time to share more about your 16-year-old too as it does make a difference what he has done in the past as we look at a good placement going forward. Based on what you shared, it does sound like World History would be a good fit for your son. It sounds like he has many of the pieces in place that will help him be successful with that guide.

How exciting! Now you can plan a bit more about going forward.

Our fourth son is just finishing Rev2Rev now. He will be heading into MTMM next week. We pray you will enjoy those guides as much as we have in the past and are right now. Our second son finished World History a couple months ago. He really loved that guide too! So we seem to be at a very similar place to where you are!

Blessings,

[my3sons]

It sounds like you have come to an excellent placement for each of your children! We are just finishing Revival to Revolution - it was a wonderful year! We are looking forward to Missions to Modern Marvels next year. With my older sons, I thoroughly enjoyed MTMM and high school World History in years' past! I think you will have a good year with each of these placements. Heart of Dakota's high school guides do an incredible job of preparing kiddos for college upon graduation, should that be a future goal. Our oldest son is just finishing his second year of college and thriving. If you have any other questions, please let us know! Otherwise, I hope you have a terrific year with RevtoRev, MTMM, and WH!

In Christ,
Julie

[christianmom]

Thank you very much Carrie for helping me with placing each of my children.

Thank you also Julie for confirming placement for each of them.

Thank you Rice, Kristen, Carrie, and Julie for helping me through this placement process.

Blessings

[my3sons]

Hope you have a wonderful year homeschooling your family with Heart of Dakota - God bless!

In Christ,
Julie