Singapore vs. Horizons and confusing guide lineup

[mtmom9107]

Hi all! I'm pretty new here. I have ordered HOD Bigger for my 3rd grader. LHFHG for my 1st grader and LHTH to use at a slower pace for my 3.5 year old. I have always struggled (and still am) struggling with finding a math program that fits and works. My oldest will be starting 3rd grade in the fall and is currently finishing up Book 1 of Horizons Math grade 1. This is probably right on as far as ability level for her. She really struggles with math. I've never used Singapore. There's things that I like and don't like about Horizons math. I like the bright colorful workbook. I don't like the teacher guide that they say to use to make the program complete. I never use it, it's geared toward a classroom and is just cumbersome. I am really wanting to simplify and use just what the HOD guides say to use and so be able to do the hands on suggestions in the HOD guide. I feel like that with this wonderful curriculum that the hands on lessons in the guide will really help her. What do you guys think?
As far as my second child who will be starting 1st grade in the fall. She's finishing up Book 1 of Horizons math K. Does the LHFHG guide have hands on suggestions for Singapore 1A and 1B? I haven't got my stuff yet so I don't know. It seems like it's scheduled in the appendix, does that mean that there's no "hands on lesson" to go with the Singapore 1A and 1B workbooks?
Does doing Singapore with HOD flow well and do you have to have a separate math teacher guide or is it pretty much all in the HOD guide? I'm so done with having a teacher guide for numerous different subjects and numerous different levels. I'm so ready for a HOD guide for each kid that covers everything and that's why i'm contemplating another math switch. But I gotta make it last! I'm worries i'm going to wind up confusing them if I switch math to much. I'd love to hear what you experienced HOD and Singapore moms think about this. Thank you!!

[StephanieU]

I think before making a decision about math curriculum, I would look at the placement test for Singapore. Horizons and Singapore are equally advanced, and yet they have different scopes and sequences for each level. We have done exclusively Horizons (without the teacher's manual). When we came to HOD, I contemplated switching. My daughter was in the 1st grade Book 1 at the time (and we owned Book 2). After looking at the placement test for Singapore, I realized it wouldn't be a great fit. So we have kept with Horizons - she is now in 5th grade Book 1.
As for hands on activities, K is in LHFHG, 1st is in Beyond, and 2nd is in Bigger. That is the end of hands-on activities. And the activities are only in those guides, as they aren't short things that are easy to include in multiple guides.

[mtmom9107]

As for hands on activities, K is in LHFHG, 1st is in Beyond, and 2nd is in Bigger. That is the end of hands-on activities. And the activities are only in those guides, as they aren't short things that are easy to include in multiple guides.

This seems confusing to me. If LHFHG is the program to use for 1st grade in order to reach the final program in 12th grade why is it so tailored to K? And if it's not recommended to start Preparing till 4th, LHFHG again is the one to use for 1st. It feels like there could be one more program put in the sequence for either K or 1st grade.

[StephanieU]

Part of it is that Singapore is advanced! In Singapore, they start Level 1 at 7yo, which is the middle age for Beyond. Also, Charlotte Mason didn't advocate formal education before 6yo. So again, that would be the age to start the K level. If you start with K for first grade, you are still on track to be ready for algebra in 9th grade, as some kids can move directly from Singapore 6b to Algebra. And those that can't only need one year of Pre-Algebra.

[gragg09]

Laura, I totally get what you're saying about the set up being confusing for finishing up the guides in the 12 years of school if LHFHG is supposed to be for Kindergarten. What I did was use LHTH for preschool at age 4 or so and then I kind of did my own thing for Kindergarten using some of the recommended books for K from the LHFHG guide. For example, I used the recommended science and math books and I used another set of the Thornton Burgess books (Old Mother West Wind) to get my daughter used to them for 1st grade. I used Leading Little Ones to God for Bible and we have used The Ordinary Parent's Guide to Teaching Reading for phonics in our family for K and 1st grade because it's a pretty lengthy book (and very thorough!). I figured Kindergarten would be easier to improvise things with than 8th or 12th grade would be if I didn't have a guide to use at the end! lol I went on to use LHFHG for first grade so that we would be able to use a guide per year through 12th grade. As far as your math question goes, I used Singapore for my daughter for K and 2 weeks of first grade and sold it! I didn't think there was near enough instruction and I wanted a curriculum that would teach my daughter without me having to figure out how to word things as she gets older (math is not my strong suit!). I went with Math U See and we're both loving it! I like how there is a video lesson each unit that teaches my daughter the methods so that I don't have to. It really hasn't been cumbersome at all having to skip the "math box" from the guide to do our own thing and Math U See is very hands on with the blocks that go with the curriculum. I hope this helps!

Blessings, Amanda

[jellybeanmum]

FWIW, we use Math U See even though it's not mentioned in the HOD guide. It works for us & we're happy with it. I have a child who needs to hear, see, & know all the whys in order to grasp something & MUS really hits all of those for him. When he was just starting out the manipulatives were a huge help to him as well.

[Nealewill]

This seems confusing to me. If LHFHG is the program to use for 1st grade in order to reach the final program in 12th grade why is it so tailored to K? And if it's not recommended to start Preparing till 4th, LHFHG again is the one to use for 1st. It feels like there could be one more program put in the sequence for either K or 1st grade.

I think you should check the placement chart if you think that Little Hearts is going to be too easy. My girls have always been on the youngest end of the age range. They did Preparing for 3rd grade and my son is doing it for 5th. Placement is key. Don't worry about their "grade." Just make sure they are welled placed.

I should also mention that we didn't always do HOD. My oldest started HOD when she was in 3rd grade at 8 years old and started in Preparing. Bigger would have been too easy and she was ready to do some stuff independently. She has always done a guide a year and it has been fine. My other two started together and they started in Beyond. We have had a bit of journey in placing them because I let my youngest do Beyond when she was 5 but I knew I didn't want her to do Preparing at 7 . So I ended up having her do Beyond, Little Hearts, Bigger and then this year she is doing Preparing. My son did Beyond when he was 7, then moved to Bigger when he was 8 but he still struggled a lot with reading when he was 9. He started the year in Preparing but I ended up making him repeat Bigger with his younger sister. At that time, I was apparent that he and his younger sister were very much of the same level. He repeated everything except the science last year. I end up letting him complete the science for Preparing because he wanted too. So this year, since I didn't want him to just repeat the same books again, I let him take the intermediate Education Exploration with big sis who is in Rev-to-Rev and he will then do the advanced Education Exploration when he gets to it. This way he doesn't quite repeat it fully but can learn something new. Each of my children are perfectly placed and it is a good fit for the guide that they are in.

I have seen many moms on here (and on facebook) tell other moms to wait until kids are a certain grade to take certain levels. IMHO and with much respect, I don't like that. HOD isn't about what grade your kids are in. It is about their level. EVERY child is different. View them as they are. I think many times people assume that other peoples kids are going to struggle in the same areas their kids struggled in. If I have learned anything....my 3 kids are different! My oldest struggled with dyslexia, my son has auditory processing disorder, and my youngest is probably on the gifted spectrum. But please, please, place your kids where they are on that chart. If you place to low, they are bored. If you place to high, they are frustrated. If you place correctly, they are engaged and interested. Place them according to the chart and don't worry about the grade. Just my 2 cents.

[momtofive]

I understand you're concerns over the guide lineup, but if I may share a few thoughts on this. The most important thing to ensure success for your children is that they are correctly placed in a guide that they fit well in. This will ensure success, confidence building, and appropriate challenge as they go. Some families will start their little ones out in Little Hearts for K, and be right on track at one guide per year to finish the last guide during their 12th grade year. Other families might combine students, or have a child that just places in a certain guide that leaves them finishing with World History or US1 during 12th grade. The beauty of this is that HOD can work in all of those situations. It may take a little fine tuning in the high school years, but it's very do-able.

One possibility if you begin with a little one in HOD, is that you may decide to take the 5 day guides and slow them down to 4 days per week, giving you a day to use freely (park day, field trip, library day, etc...). By doing this you'll use up that *extra* year and be right on track when you hit Preparing Hearts (the first 4 day/wk guide).

Sometimes families experience unforeseen trials or illness that come up, and delay them from school or slow it down for a time, eating up that extra time over the course of their student's school years.

Julie (Carrie's sister) has mentioned that for her oldest they've slowed down the last two guides giving her oldest the opportunity to take certain days each week off for work, and other special opportunities that come up during the junior and senior years of schooling.

My own oldest (when we found HOD), started out doing Preparing in 5th grade. He did five days of school each week (since we were using 5 day per week guides with his younger siblings anyway), and by doing so moved through the middle school guides a tiny bit faster. This worked for him, and was what he preferred doing. He's since slowed down, and is now right on track to finish the last guide next year during his senior year.

Another option, is to just begin them where they place, and do one day at a time, moving along at the child's pace, with a goal of completing one guide per year. There are many posts on the board that talk about how to give high school credit to guides like Rev2Rev, and MTMM, so if they fall in your students 9th or 10th grades, you can still just keep moving on, but still give them high school credit for their studies.

There are many, many ways that you can slow down, speed up, or just keep on cruising through the guides, and still come away with a wonderful Christ-centered education that meets all the requirements you need to fulfill. We can't look ahead and know how our school years will go, and so starting with the placement chart is key to finding success as you begin with HOD.

Blessings!

[mtmom9107]

Thank you for all the help everyone! I do think my older girls are placed in the correct guides for their abilities. I really like the idea of doing a 4 day week regardless of the guide being a 5 day week. We have a home school group that meets every other Wednesday so backing things up to 4 days is something I was contemplating anyway. So with these 5 day guides....if you do them 4 days a week and you go a whole typical school year (September-mid May) and then you have to finish up the last couple weeks of the guide in the following fall. Do you then just go to the next level when you're done? Even if it's like in the middle of October?

Another question. I got all my stuff yesterday and had my oldest read a little out of several of the emerging readers. I'm really undecided with regards to the emerging readers or the lowest level of DITHOR for her. The first half of the emerging readers are very easy for her. She is just starting to be challenged a little bit at about the Christian Liberty Nature Reader. She can even read The Courage of Sarah Noble pretty good, just needs a little more help with that one. But it doesn't discourage her. At this reading level do you think she would be better placed in DITHOR? I don't want her to be frustrated if it's to hard, but for most of this year the emerging readers are going to be very easy for her.

[momtofive]

So with these 5 day guides....if you do them 4 days a week and you go a whole typical school year (September-mid May) and then you have to finish up the last couple weeks of the guide in the following fall. Do you then just go to the next level when you're done? Even if it's like in the middle of October?

Yes, wherever you leave off, just pick back up there when you resume school. The guides flow very well, and this has not been a problem. Then when you finish a guide, just begin the next one.

[Nealewill]

For the emerging readers, I would have her start reading where she places. So if she is challenged at about mid way through the readers, start there. The DITHOR books are great but they are step up from those emerging readers.

[StephanieU]

The reading level isn't a step up from the last ER books to the easiest DITHOR level 2 books. But the follow-up is completely different
The ER follow up is a list of questions. Some are easier than others (they follow Bloom's Taxonomy), but they are still just questions answered orally. DITHOR gets into character traits, mood, setting, etc. There are workbook pages some days. We often just read and narrate the Level 2 books, starting the actual DITHOR program with the level 3 books at the very end of Bigger or in Preparing.

[queenireneof3]

Hi,
To respond to one of your original questions, my son started in LHFHG with singapore K and we made it partway through Singapore 3 before I let go of Singapore and started on our quest for a new math curriculum. My son is challenged in math anyways, as I've learned, and he wasn't getting enough structure and practice in the basics with Singapore. My daughter, who finds math much easier, also fizzled out with Singapore around level 1 or 2 (I can't remember now ) and I have also put in her a different curriculum. (Different than her brother because he is really very "behind" grade level, and I don't want her passing him up in math that he knows about anyways.) I think it works for some people and obviously is a good choice since Carrie recommends it. What i did love about it was the amount of work needed to finish a lesson wasn't too overwhelming, iow there isn't a lot of repeat drills. It was still overwhelming to my son who just didn't understand it very well, but it was not a page full of tedious addition or subtraction drills.