Totally lost for placement....

[melissamomof3girls]

The short of it is this: My girls all did MFW K, MFW 1st, 1st daughter did MFW ADV, then we tried and failed at MFW ECC. We took two years to do HOD. My oldest went through Bigger & Preparing. My 2nd did Beyond and the next year just Reading, Math, and LA, and my 3rd did Little Hearts and parts of Beyond.

Last year we did MFW CTG.

This year we are doing MFW RTR.

I love the family approach, but sometimes I just really really wonder if it is hitting the mark. Is doing it together worth it? Are they getting enough? Was it better to do the one-on-one. Do I have time to do the one-on-one? My kids this year are K, 3rd, 5th, 7th, and I have a toddler.

Our first week of school my toddler was quite sick and each one of us got sick during the first 2 months of school. One with pneumonia! It was very very difficult plugging along. So I know part of my feelings are rooted in the exhaustion of getting through that.

My oldest is a go-getter. She listens well. Hears well. Remembers well. She is able to go to her independent work and focus.

My 2nd is a dreamer. She is a worrier. She is usually off in dream land instead of listening. She often does not hear what I am reading at our together time for history & science. She is quite capable of all the work she does, it just takes her forever because she is so distracted.

My 3rd is more like the 1st. She is sloppy, but she gets it done efficiently. She is a smart little thing.

My K & toddler always seem to be an interruption or distraction, no matter what.

So, since my oldest already did Preparing and we are doing RTR this year, she would probably do well to do Rev to Ref next year for 8th grade. She might whine about all the writing though.

But considering that we've just done CTG and this year Rome to Ref....what in the world would I do with the next 2 next year if we come back to HOD? I could quite possibly combine them, but into what?

[Nealewill]

If it were me, I would place your oldest alone in Rev to Rev as long as she places there.

With your next two, I would combine the 2nd and 3rd child in Preparing and have the oldest do extensions. My oldest really struggles to get things done herself because she is usually off in la la land most of the time lately. It is driving me bonkers. I have slowed her down to doing 3 days of plans per week but she is also very younger for the guide. When she started RtR this year, she was 10. I think your oldest would probably enjoy most of the resourced. My kids have absolutely loved them! This would be a wonderful year of world history overview. While some of it may seem like a repeat, HOD and MFW are both very different. I think your kids would very much still enjoy it.

As for your younger 2, how old are they? You could do Little Hands to Heaven or Little Hearts depending on the ages of them. You could definitely combine them too and just adjust for math with the older child. But with HOD, you would want to make sure you place them according to the skills for the younger child.

[StephanieU]

Also, check the placement chart for the older three at least (if not #4). Correct placement is more important than where they are in the history cycle for sure. If Number 2 and Number 3 place in back to back (or the same) guides, use the lower guide and extensions for the older one. If there is a guide between them, then consider if combining works best or not (you can use the extensions to raise the level of the guide up to 2 levels).

[LovingJesus]

The short of it is this: My girls all did MFW K, MFW 1st, 1st daughter did MFW ADV, then we tried and failed at MFW ECC. We took two years to do HOD. My oldest went through Bigger & Preparing. My 2nd did Beyond and the next year just Reading, Math, and LA, and my 3rd did Little Hearts and parts of Beyond.

Last year we did MFW CTG.

This year we are doing MFW RTR.

So, since my oldest already did Preparing and we are doing RTR this year, she would probably do well to do Rev to Ref next year for 8th grade. She might whine about all the writing though.

But considering that we've just done CTG and this year Rome to Ref....what in the world would I do with the next 2 next year if we come back to HOD? I could quite possibly combine them, but into what?

We also did MFWK, MFW1, ADV, and ECC prior to HOD. As you know MFW and HOD are very different in terms of their approaches to skills. Writing and independent reading are interwoven throughout the HOD guides. These additional abilities needed in writing and reading to do the guides can make placement coming from MFW, in my experience, a bit tricky.

My initial questions would be:
*How long are your 12, 11, and 9 your olds written narrations for RTR's note booking?
*How are they doing in their oral narrations of SOTW?
*Could any, or all of them, read SOTW on their own if they had to?
*What level of independent reading are they at?
*Is writing a struggle or easy?
*How easy or difficult is the copying and dictation of the scripture each week?
*What are they doing for grammar?
*Is your oldest doing Apologia for 7th? Progeny Press for 7th?

I think the answers to those questions will depend a lot on where they place in HOD. The skills ramp up in CTC quite a bit from Preparing. My understanding is that the skill building continues to build quite a bit in RTR thru MTMM. So you will want to place them according to their academic abilities so they can do the work, rather then where you are at in the history cycle. Here is a thread on Carrie's reasons of why to decide based on skills rather then the history cycle:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9340

I would look at the placement chart and give details on this thread of where they are at academically. The answers will help these ladies place your children. Julie also is very helpful at placement with those details.

We finished up ECC last winter. My oldest, at age 11 at the end of 5th, worked hard on CTC last April, May, and June. Julie actually recommended RTR for him. As far as the areas of content and reading and age go he could have been in the higher guide of RTR. I picked CTC largely because it was next in our history cycle. I would encourage you to not let the history cycle influence you. I have found though that now as he is getting into history that he doesn't know as well that he seems to really be enjoying CTC. I have also found that his weak link of writing, after MFW, has been easier to bring up to speed with CTC then it might have been with RTR. The information is well known since we have done a lot of Bible as a family. This knowledge though has helped him learn to write really good written narrations without the extra stress of processing new information. I see CTC as his transition year between MFW and HOD. His writing has grown so much with HOD! You mentioned that your dd12 would whine about all the writing. Oh, my did my son ever whine about the huge increase in writing from MFW last spring! It was a good character lesson for both of us. I kept at it, and helped him learn the skills so that he stopped whining. Yesterday, he had his written narration for CTC. At this point in the guide it took him about 15 - 20 minutes and he did a beautiful job. His written narrations are so good at this point, and I love seeing his solid paragraphs after HOD!

My ds10 is placed the best in Preparing and I will say if you get placement just right I can see the true beauty of HOD. He is being stretched and not overly challenged. He is growing. He was the easiest to bring over from MFW due to age and having just enough abilities in place for his age. My dd8 is advanced and has done Beyond. Preparing is a bit of a stretch for her in work load, but I needed them combined and she is ready for it academically. They started Preparing this fall.

I guess I am hoping our placement experience will help you sort through your own situation. I would need to know more about their reading and writing though to give you good advice on where to put each of them. CTC has a lot of independent reading and writing in it. The work load in RTR, Reve2Rev, and MTMM is more reading and more writing and more boxes. I would encourage you to put down on this thread of where you think each of them are academically so you can get specifics of where they would place best. Specifically in the areas of reading levels and writing abilities.

I hope this helps!

P.S. You mentioned your uncertainty about the family learning. For us I find there is more family learning and team work somehow with them each having their own work in HOD then we had in the family combined learning of MFW. I don't know exactly how it works, but the flow is so much better. When they go off and read their DITHOR book (I highly recommend DITHOR) and come back they have more patience with one another. HOD is giving them some of the space they need, while still bringing them together as a family. They are interested in what one another is doing and will join in some without the competition that happened when all 3 of them had the same program of ECC. I feel like they have more of a common goal of getting their work done and I see them helping each other more with HOD. It has more of the feel of a one room school house, or home school before the one room school houses. I really like it. They have just enough of their own space in HOD and just enough coming together in a common goal. They will sit in some on one another's lessons, and I find them more engaged and learning again like they did when they were little. I don't know exactly how it works but the flow of HOD produces peaceful days. I actually feel like we have more family learning even though they are doing separate work. The balance between them having space to learn, coming together, their own projects, and a variety of learning is really reaching them. They needed some space from one another, and then when they come together they have more to share.

Blessings,

[melissamomof3girls]

My initial questions would be:
*How long are your 12, 11, and 9 your olds written narrations for RTR's note booking?
*How are they doing in their oral narrations of SOTW?
*Could any, or all of them, read SOTW on their own if they had to?
*What level of independent reading are they at?
*Is writing a struggle or easy?
*How easy or difficult is the copying and dictation of the scripture each week?
*What are they doing for grammar?
*Is your oldest doing Apologia for 7th? Progeny Press for 7th?

Honestly, my girls haven't done a lot of narrations. It seems like the notebook pages have been very few and far between this year so far.
We haven't got to SOTW yet. We just finished up Augustus Caesar's World & are still using Streams. Both dry and difficult, IMO.
They are all pretty good readers.
None of them like to write. None. But it comes easiest to #1.
Scripture copy & dictation is just fine for them all.
Dd1 is doing Writing with Skill and has completed a good bit of grammar instruction. Dd2 is doing ILL, and Dd3 is doing PLL.
My oldest is doing Apologia General Science this year. She does excellent at independent work...

Sigh...you hit the nail on the head with how tricky it would be to place them coming from our history.

[LovingJesus]

Honestly, my girls haven't done a lot of narrations. It seems like the notebook pages have been very few and far between this year so far.
We haven't got to SOTW yet. We just finished up Augustus Caesar's World & are still using Streams. Both dry and difficult, IMO.
They are all pretty good readers.
None of them like to write. None. But it comes easiest to #1.
Scripture copy & dictation is just fine for them all.
Dd1 is doing Writing with Skill and has completed a good bit of grammar instruction. Dd2 is doing ILL, and Dd3 is doing PLL.
My oldest is doing Apologia General Science this year. She does excellent at independent work...

Sigh...you hit the nail on the head with how tricky it would be to place them coming from our history.

I have looked at Streams, and I agree with you that it would be a dry and difficult book to narrate!

It is tricky placing in HOD from MFW. It really is, but I think you can do it. HOD approaches history from a different angle then MFW and with more of a CM approach, I really wouldn't worry about repeated information since it is done differently.

None of my kids liked writing either, which is why HOD has been good for them. My oldest has actually said this fall that he loves to write! I nearly fainted. They have had so much listening to good literature though it makes sense that it would come together at some point. HOD though was the catalyst that has helped it come together for him. The directions on written narrations and oral narrations are specific enough that they helped me help him go over the hill that he wasn't crossing over in MFW. His writing was stuck, and now it isn't. The other two were in a different place, but they have grown so much this fall in writing with Preparing. It is also helping them start to go up the hill they need to go over by taking them to the next step they need in writing. They were starting, last year, to get stuck like my oldest.

I do think you can come from your place in history and place into HOD if you lay the history content aside. One of the other ladies would know better then I how to place your oldest for where she is at in writing. The 9 & 11 might be able to do CTC? Could they read the history independently? There is one written narration a week of 5 - 8 sentences. It was the hardest learning curve for my oldest last spring. He could do the copy work, which is fairly long and extensive. I guess the other skill in CTC is some independence. There are specific directions to oral narrations in CTC that are very helpful. Specific directions for teaching written narrations that I found helpful as well. I looked a lot at CTG at one point for MFW, and CTC is different in how it approaches ancients. I have liked CTC a lot. My son has had to look up numerous prophecies in the OT that point to Christ and then write the fulfillment from the NT and then summarize it for his note book. That exercise alone I think has been worth volumes. No matter what program you choose the writing will be a learning curve if they don't like to write. It has definitely been a learning curve for my 3. It can be done though. It brings much growth, character growth, and is well worth the effort. It did take my oldest about 4 months to really make the transition to the increased writing. Once he did though the growth was well worth those months of effort.

Prayers for your decisions.

[abrightmom]

P.S. You mentioned your uncertainty about the family learning. For us I find there is more family learning and team work somehow with them each having their own work in HOD then we had in the family combined learning of MFW. I don't know exactly how it works, but the flow is so much better. When they go off and read their DITHOR book (I highly recommend DITHOR) and come back they have more patience with one another. HOD is giving them some of the space they need, while still bringing them together as a family. They are interested in what one another is doing and will join in some without the competition that happened when all 3 of them had the same program of ECC. I feel like they have more of a common goal of getting their work done and I see them helping each other more with HOD. It has more of the feel of a one room school house, or home school before the one room school houses. I really like it. They have just enough of their own space in HOD and just enough coming together in a common goal. They will sit in some on one another's lessons, and I find them more engaged and learning again like they did when they were little. I don't know exactly how it works but the flow of HOD produces peaceful days. I actually feel like we have more family learning even though they are doing separate work. The balance between them having space to learn, coming together, their own projects, and a variety of learning is really reaching them. They needed some space from one another, and then when they come together they have more to share.

Blessings,

Love this!! GREAT evaluation of how HOD works and fits a one room schoolhouse. LOVE LOVE it.

[MelInKansas]

Hi I just wanted to comment on here because I also have 3 girls/boy/girl in my family though mine are younger than yours. I have no good advice for you on placement other than what others have said, look at the placement chart and go by that, not by which period of history you want to study next. It's incremental and intended to place them where their skills are, you will be frustrated if you try to do it based on the history. I'm glad to hear others' kids hate writing, my DD has come up through HOD and has grown and now likes writing if it's for a purpose that she likes, sometimes.

I used to think that combined history and science would be less work for me. Now I see that the placement in HOD and open-and-go with each child also saves me a lot of time and work. So I think it's a trade off. I really appreciate that my oldest is challenged and can soar without feeling "held back" by younger siblings. This very helpful for her. I love discussing things with her on her level, the storytime, narrations, and discussion questions she answers help me do this. I love having each of them reading books that are right on their level (or having books read to them). I never worry about content or about answering question after question with my 6YO (who is full of questions) and going down a path that I really don't want to have to deal with with her, quite yet.