Our first days in RtR

[rumkimom]

Our first 3 days with RtR with my learning disabled 14 year old...... I dislike using that label, but otherwise people do not understand why things take so much longer for her to do. Learning is just hard for her…reading is hard, comprehension is hard, writing is hard. The only areas where she excels are math and art. She loves science so it makes that subject easier for her.

Monday – we only had 1.5 hrs to work on schoolwork before I had to leave to bring my older daughter to a sewing lesson and then go grocery shopping. That day we did Reading about History, Storytime, Independent History Study. Storytime and Reading about History was too much reading for her all at one time. I plan to split that up to different days or just not have her do them back to back.

Tuesday – I once again had to leave in the morning, but not until 11:00am, so we had 4 hours to get things done. Melody finished up everything else from day 1 except for Research. She also did another math lesson. She really enjoyed the art book, the science lesson and also making the arch for the History Project. In the midst of her work, I also helped my son do ½ of stuff in Bigger.

Wed –First she had to finish her math lesson (she wants to get that done first and it takes 30-45 min… she is at the end of the TT pre-algebra book). Next we by finishing off Research from Day 1. It took about an hour due to her disability, but she stuck with it and got it done. I then let her pick which box she wanted to do next (day 2) and told her we needed to finish 5 boxes. In the end we ended up doing Reading about History, History project, Quiet Time, Geography and Math. It all it took about 4 hours to get it done.

Since it seems to be taking so much longer for her to get things done, I am thinking that our goal should be working 5 days rather than 4….doing 8 boxes a day. For now we will continue to try to get 5 boxes done a day and slowly work up to 8. We are learning as we go…..now just to also add both of my sons in the mix and also finding some time to help my oldest.

[LynnH]

Is she reading the Reading about History and Storytime or are you? Just so you know I still read the storytime books out loud to my son unless the reading is over about 15-16 pages and then we split it and I read half the reading and he reads the rest.

[rumkimom]

Lynn - On day 1 she wanted to read them by herself so I let her. Her comprehension is much better when SHE reads it (and it is still quite low when she reads it....when she was little there was virtually no comprehension when I read to her). I plan to read the storytime book with her tomorrow (her reading a page or paragraph and then me reading the next one) so that it goes faster and so that I do not have to read it beforehand. Then as we go though it I can help point out things that they are looking for and also can make sure that she is understanding it. Tomorrow is a narration day so I will probably split it up and try to have her narrate as we go (in small portions). We will keep on working at it until we find what works best for her.

Tomorrow we have the devotional which I will read with her (alternating who reads so that she is reading along with me). For science she had a written narration....we will start small with it. I will not require 8-12 sentences...and will pick only 2-3 of the question instead of all 5. Since she has read this book before (she read it though twice the year we did it), she might be able to answer all the questions. I might also have her dictate what she wants to write first and then she can copy it into her notebook.

Oh, and somewhere in there I have to add my 2 boys. I have been skipping the one this week (LHFHG) due to him being in unit 3 already....and doing the other in Bigger 1/2 speed until I have a little more time to help him. I get to him when I get a break with her. I now see why people have said to start with the older ones first and then add in the youngers. At least my boy do know what to do when I have time to help them....Steven has been really good about getting things done when I call him. The youngest did ask today when he gets to do his work.

[Nealewill]

I still read the storytime books out loud to my son unless the reading is over about 15-16 pages and then we split it and I read half the reading and he reads the rest.

Which guide has the storytime books that exceed 15-16 pages out loud? I do still read story time to my kids and had planned to until they finish MTMM. However, reading out loud actually puts me to sleep. LOL. I can read for hours to myself but books out loud do me in. Even if I my kids are the ones reading to me - I am out like a light! I have no idea why either LOL. I am reading The Accidental Voyage to my oldest right now and even though the story time is only 10-12 pages, that book is wordy. I am yawning like crazy by page 7. I am pretty sure I won't make it 15-16 pages in a row......

[LynnH]

Daneale I know by MTMM there were some that were 15-20 pages and maybe Rev to Rev also, I can't remember. Now in the high school guides we have had days of 28 pages or more. My voice is good for about 16-17.

[Nealewill]

Oh my goodness! I have a feeling that my kids will totally be reading some of those books themselves then (or I will split it with them).

[rumkimom]

Today I split the storytime book with my daughter and that worked well. I also knew she was following along in the book if I had her read a here and there. I tried to have her narrate after every 2 pages, but she still could not do it. Because of her disability I do not know if she will ever be able to narrate. For science today she had written narration.....I picked out 3 of the questions for her and had her write her answers in complete sentences (mostly she copied how they had it written in the book).

Today she had 5 boxes to complete (because dad was home today and we had a late start, I told her she did not have to do math) and we had them done in 2-2.5 hours....so much better than the last 2 days. We are slowing getting it figured out.

[my3sons]

It took my ds at least 4 hours to get his work done in RTR last year. I think that for the first days in RTR, your dd is doing great! We did have to set aside 4 to 4 1/2 hours each day for Riley to finish RTR each day, which I actually thought was probably good for his age. Growing up, you know! We found the following suggested time allotments by Carrie to be true...
RTR (Left Side of the Plans):
Reading About History: (30-35 min. including reading and assignment)
Storytime: (15-20 min.)
History Project: (20 min.)
Rotating Box: (20 min.) Longer on the Shakespeare Day
Independent History Study: (10-15 min.) (Longer on Draw and Write days)

RTR (Right Side of the Plans):
Bible Quiet Time: (20 min.)
Math: (30-35 min.)
Science: (25-30 min.)
Rotating Box: Art Appreciation (15-20 min.), Devotional Bible Study (20 min. - twice weekly), Poetry (10-15 min.)
Language Arts (not all areas are done daily):
Dictation (5 min.) 3 times weekly
Medieval History-Based Writing Lessons: (20 min.) 3 times weekly
Drawn into the Heart of Reading: (30-40 min.) 3 times weekly
Grammar: (20 min.) 2 times weekly (much done orally)

I can relate to your thoughts about that lesson in WWTB!!! With my first ds in WWTB, I made him find all of the answers for the nouns, verbs, etc. lesson. It took us forever! When that assignment came up again, I went back and reread the first assignment's directions only to discover it said "it is not necessary to find all of the answers." Yeah, I missed that. Praise the Lord He brought it to my attention the second time around, because I was about ready to make my ds take an hour to find them all again the second time! The rest of WWTB went well, and great progress in writing was made throughout the year.

As far as the research, I think it is always helpful to know the purpose of why it is being done. Here is a copy of the 'purpose' of the research assignment (taken from the Introduction of RTR):

The purpose of the research activity is to train students to use an index or a search engine, to skim to find answers, and to create a written postcard from the information they’ve gathered. Colorful pictures of the places researched adorn the postcards within the Student Notebook to create a beautiful record of the places visited. Note: As always, parental supervision is recommended as students use the Internet.

Based on this purpose, I did not require Riley to have every single answer in his postcard, but rather the majority of them. I also helped him skim the Table of Contents on Wikipedia, and click on the sections that would most likely have the answers to the provided questions. If it was going long, I hopped in and helped him. If he couldn't find a few, it was ok, as he was still learning the skills of using an index and search engine, skimming to find answers, and writing a postcard with his findings.

I think it sounds like you and your dd are off to a good start overall with RTR! As your dd gets more into a routine of doing school each day for 4 hours or so, she will find each day to be easier and more and more enjoyable. I think she'll continue to enjoy the hands-on history projects, art study, and science experiments in the guide! She sounds just like my hands-on ds, Riley. Those were favorites all year for him as well. You asked some good questions here, and I hope that something here can help, but - I think you are both off to a good start with good days ahead in RTR! I hope you look back on your time in RTR as fondly as we now do. God bless!

In Christ
Julie

[rumkimom]

Thanks so much for your encouragement Julie! So far this week Melody is doing better. Today we should be finishing up Unit one.

The written narration on day 4 was really hard for her.....I did help her quite a bit as I think she needed to know what was expected. Also I am not sure how well she will ever do narrations due to her disability (Expressive-Receptive Language Disorder). I am hoping with time she will remember more of what she reads. She has struggled with this her whole life so far and probably will for the rest of her life. It is still hard for her to answer simple questions about a passage she read (like who is this about). I have to think about the best way to help her do this particular assignment. I might just have to read it with her and go over the main points with her a few times and then have her try to write something on her own......What I did yesterday was to re-read it with her, have her write a few notes on what happened and then helped her formulate those notes into sentences. We wrote it on notebook paper and today she will transfer what we wrote into the notebook. If anyone else has a child that struggles with comprehension/writing has any ideas, please let me know!

[Gwenny]

If you don't ask her questions, can she tell you anything about what she said, even just little things that don't really matter? If you just say, what is one thing you remember about what you read, can she say anything?

[rumkimom]

Nope...she usually can't remember a thing! And if I press her she will end up in tears.

Change that....
Most times she tries to start to say something but then "she can't get it out" (as she says). So she does remember thing but has a very hard time expressing them (both orally and written).

[MomtoJGJE]

could she act it out, like miming? or charades where people have to guess what she's doing?

[my3sons]

Thanks so much for your encouragement Julie! So far this week Melody is doing better. Today we should be finishing up Unit one.

The written narration on day 4 was really hard for her.....I did help her quite a bit as I think she needed to know what was expected. Also I am not sure how well she will ever do narrations due to her disability (Expressive-Receptive Language Disorder). I am hoping with time she will remember more of what she reads. She has struggled with this her whole life so far and probably will for the rest of her life. It is still hard for her to answer simple questions about a passage she read (like who is this about). I have to think about the best way to help her do this particular assignment. I might just have to read it with her and go over the main points with her a few times and then have her try to write something on her own......What I did yesterday was to re-read it with her, have her write a few notes on what happened and then helped her formulate those notes into sentences. We wrote it on notebook paper and today she will transfer what we wrote into the notebook. If anyone else has a child that struggles with comprehension/writing has any ideas, please let me know!

Oh, I'm glad to have helped some! I'm proud of Melody - she is making progress, and not much time has passed! I am confident she'll continue to make good progress this year. Writing narrations is a skill that takes a lot of time to fully develop. Little by little though, progress is made! With your dd, you are already doing a great job of utilizing some of the helpful narrating tips from the Appendix...

* shorten the sections narrated upon
* have her write part of it and dictate to you to write the rest

These are good ideas and good to keep doing! Another tip that you can try...
* you make a list of important names, dates, and placed on a marker board before the reading; then have her use the list as a reference for any words she decides she'd like to use in her narration

I do think if she keeps pressing on with these helps you are doing such a good job of providing, that she will slowly but steadily make some progress. You'd mentioned that she comprehends better when she is doing the reading - fantastic! That's a sign of better reading comprehension developing. As adults, we'd all rather take a test on material we read ourselves than material someone else read to us! So, I like the idea of you breaking up the Reading about History and Storytime readings, and if she was going to do the reading herself for one of the two, I'd have her do the Reading about History reading. This is the basis for the history theme, and it would be more important for her to retain than the Storytime readings.

You'd mentioned your dd enjoys art and math. So, one other thought I'd had was perhaps she could draw a picture as a way to retain her thoughts about the reading, and then write a caption for her picture of around 7 sentences or so. The writing will be important to do, so I don't mean for this to replace it, but more to act as a memory aid. If art and drawing would help her express her comprehension of the readings better and act as a sounding board for her writing her written narration, I think that would be just fine. Then, she can gradually as able try to lengthen her written narrations. Her disability of receptive language disorder does need to be taken into account, though I'm with you - I dislike labels. However, they do provide good information that can sometimes be helpful moving forward. So, with this suggested modification, as long as her drawing is viewed as a way to jog her memory, so she can better express her ideas in a written format - I personally still see that as still meeting the goal of improving her ability to do written narrations. She could also draw short thumbnail sketches, one for each sentence she was going to write possibly, to jog her memory, if that would be easier than 1 overall picture. Or she could switch off between the two. One last idea - she could orally narrate into a recording device, and she could type/write her ideas from there, or you could write/type part of it if it was too long and overwhelming.

Those are just a few ideas I had, but you will know best what you'd like to do! I pray you have a wonderful year using RTR! What your dd will take in at the 'heart' level, is just as important (IMHO) as what she will take in at the 'head' level. Much good that impacts the rest of our dc's lives can be (Lord willing) retained from these portions of the guide as well. Be sure to just breathe, relax, and take time to smell those 'roses' as well - they are the "forever" learning to be gleaned, and often the most eternally important! Keep up the good work - both Melody and Mom - RTR will start fitting better and better each day - God bless!

In Christ,
Julie

[chillin'inandover]

Wendy,
I am glad that you got the first unit done. I have been thinking about your situation. I am not the best at stating things with tact or grace. So here goes.

This is meant to be encouraging, loving, and based on experience. Yes I agree about not using labels. In 5th grade I was labeled as monotone or tone deaf. My music teacher put me in the section with other non-singers and said to just lipsink. This made me so self conscious that I NEVER sing in public. I know in heaven I will sound great. I appreciate that HOD teaches singing, "Cuz this gal can't!"

I hear the struggles you are having with your daughter. I understand not wanting to be labeled. What I wonder is why you want her to do the guide as is if it is taking so much time and causing frustration. I understand wanting to educate her properly and fully and as normal as possible. I am just wondering if you use the guidelines that are listed by Julie and those become your guidelines. So if history should take 20 minutes, then spend 20 minutes doing what that box says. Read and orally narrate or whatever. It seems that spending so much time reading out loud (for 45 minutes) with her not understanding would be better spent reading for 15 minutes (not covering all the material), but accurately narrating that portion. Maybe summarizing or checking the key idea to complete the reading.

Each box does have a lot of information that you stated she isn't getting anyway. Why not focus on the skill to be gained in the box and a basic or general understanding of the history or science being read. I recall that a few books in RTR were more difficult, but once we got to MOH it was easier to understand. Hopefully it wasn't because of the struggle to get through the earlier books that were harder. I think of what my son remembers and he has memory issues. His memory is better with science for sure.

In RTR, my son found the art appreciation a delight. Now whenever we are reading a book or whatever he notices the pictures and lingers over them. Hubby went over the Boyhood and Beyond, which allowed special bonds. Baking the recipes developed an interest to bake, which is a skill for life.

I am so glad that your daughter's reading comprehension is better. Now she can read any directions and complete anything. That skill started with my son following instructions in science labs and baking.

Another area that was a life long skill in RTR was the IEW writing. It was hard to do but it has helped all his writing. There were times we didn't do exactly as directed. Maybe we shortened an assignment. He made tremendous growth without squashing his desire to write.

I hope that you can enjoy this guide. I know God creates very special people whom He loves. I know that HOD has created wonderful guides that are more than just reading about history or science. My kiddos can read, imagine, follow directions, create, invent, understand, appreciate all while God is center in their days.

[rumkimom]

Thanks so much Julie!

Tammy, this is an older thread now....as we are now on Unit 3

Thanks so much for your suggestions. If you look at the weekly updates you will see that we have made changes (much of what you have said we now do). We set a time limit so that she does not get frustrated. She is getting better now that she knows what is expected. The hardest days for her are when we have narration...but I tell her to just tell me what she remembers. So far she is focusing on remembering WHO the passage is about and if she remembers anything else it is a plus.. For written narrations, I have her read first, then we go though it together and make notes. From there she can sort of come up with a paragraph. This way she is learning how to make notes as well. BTW, dictation is just as hard for her as written narrations so writing part of it and dictating part of it does not really help her. She does not mind writing, it is coming up with what to 'say' that is hard for her. (the expressive part of expressive-receptive language disorder)

For writing we are using Write with the Best instead of the one listed in RtR. We are taking it very slowly. She is the midst of writing her first paragraph (5 sentences). Last time we worked on it she came up with the topic sentence. Today we wrote 2 supporting sentences. She would wrote something simple and then I would ask questions to get her to think about what descriptive words to add to it. She did get frustrated (which is why we did only 2 sentences instead of 3) plus we were going past the amount of time I wanted her to work on it. This book will be hard for her but I also think it is very good for her.

Oh, we finished up the storybook today (Forbidden Gates) and after reading our Bible tonight she mentioned that that sounded like our book (beginning of Acts). She said that the story was 'OK'. If it was up to her she would read only biographies....and only when I told her that she had to read. She read lots of missionary stories last year for LA.