RtoR Encouragement needed :)

[jjdmathnut]

Well, it's 4:20, and we just finished our day of school. My 10 and 11 year old boys are in Res to Ref this year. My question is this: Do any of your moms still read the History, Science, and Shakespeare aloud? They tried reading on their own last year but gave up when they weren't understanding Zoology. I *think* they are both reading at grade-level, but they both love listening to me read instead. Today was our first day of Shakespeare, so I had my 11 yo go off and read on his own. He was back within 3 minutes, saying he didn't understand it. SO, I read it aloud to both of them. In his defense, I thought it was a bit difficult. (The names were uncommon, the magical elements were different from our normal genre, etc.). Am I babying them by reading to them? I know these guides are meant to steer students toward becoming independent learners. I don't want my boys to be in high school and still depending on me to read everything to them. (I do want to add that I really enjoy reading aloud to them; I look forward to learning along with them!) They are good about completing their work on their own, once I'm done reading aloud.... The other thing I need encouragement for is this: we also have a busy 3 year old and a 5 month old. The preschooler likes to interrupt, so I need to find more activities to keep her busy. I spend one-on-one time with her when I can, throughout the day, but she still loves to be the center of our attention. Our baby is content and doesn't distract us too much, but taking breaks to nurse him makes the school day take a bit longer... Anyway, thanks for listening. If you have any encouragement or advice, I would be grateful!

[LynnH]

So did they do CTC last year? You said they gave up when they didn't understand Zoology, did they do any of the history ready independently? Just trying to figure out what they have been able to do up to this point. If they didn't do CTC then I'm wondering if they aren't placed in the wrong guide. 10 is on the young end for RTR. The reading in RTR, other than the Shakespeare, is not that challenging so I'm wondering if it is just easier for them to have you do it so they don't have to work at understanding it. If you don't think there are any learning disabilities then I guess you are kind of babying them by reading to them. I hope that doesn't sound harsh. I know with my son he would take the "easy" way out if it is offered to him at that age. If you think their placement is right then I would start with one subjectI science or history) and make them read it on their own. You could listen to them read aloud a page and make sure they are deciphering the words ok and then I would let them go. If they come back and say it's too hard I would still make them read it, but that is just me. They might not do the best narrations at first, but that is ok. Focus on just getting them reading it. Once you get them doing that with one subject then I would move to another one and do the same thing. If you need to read one page and then send them on their way then you can do that at first, but tell them the goal is for them to read it all themselves. I would tell them that storytime is the time you will read to them. I still read that to my highschooler because he enjoys that time. Reading for understanding is a learned skill and one that some kids struggle with more than others, but I would still push them in that direction so they can learn how to do that. Otherwise you will always be adapting for them, because the reading only gets harder from here on out.

[countrymom]

My son (age 10) also wanted me to read everything to him, but at the end of CTC I told him he was going to have to start reading himself, as that is the best way to really remember the information. We started with him reading to me, but he soon tired of that and when I suggested he read history alone he didn't complain. He is reading science to me right now and I am still reading storytime to him, so we are kind of easing into things. I have seen a noticeable improvement in his written narrations since he started reading history and science himself. We aren't doing Shakespeare, but I would probably have him read that to me if we were given his age, at least for the first part of the guide. Don't be discouraged, I think it is a fairly common problem for some students, but if you ease into it I think your boys will start to enjoy reading on their own.
I don't have too much advice for the youngers, but if your olders start reading their history on their own RtR is easy to set up so they have a big chunk of independent time during which you could tend the youngers. I begin one-on-one, then a big independent chunk, then a short one-on-one again. Maybe the last time together could correspond to naptime. Hang in there, things will get better.

[Gwenny]

You can have them listen and read along to the Shakespeare. Librivox has all of the readings.

[Nealewill]

I agree with others. I would also start having them start by read it out loud to you for some of it at first. After a couple of weeks, I would start pushing them to read it independently. I think that is a scary thing! My dd had a really tough year when she started this in Preparing because she just didn't want to read it herself. Then last year in CTC, she also complained some. We have one more week left of CTC and she doesn't really complain anymore. I found that after 1.5 years of making her do things alone, it finally turned to the up and up. I will also say, I really have to stay on her to make sure she actually does some of it though. Last year, there were 2 times she lied about her reading. It was REALLY easy to tell she was lying because she told me she finished reading the History of Medicine in 5 minutes. Uhm....no you didn't LOL! But she then would take the book and read it after I busted her. She was very peeved that I called her bluff but she doesn't really pull that stuff me anymore. In addition, she has tried to cut corners on her narration or copy work. Today, she was supposed to copy something memorable from Acts 15 and 16. I am pretty sure she picked the shortest thing she could find. We have already talked about acceptable and what she picked didn't really make much sense, it was jarring and just short. Again, I took one look at her paper and told her she had to copy more. She ended up erasing that and wrote Acts 16:29-31 from memory because she treasures those verses and had memorized them from AWANA last year. They were long! But at least they were memorable and she does treasure them.

This year with my son, he is in Preparing and I am spending a lot of time investing in his independence. He isn't all that independent yet. I still help him get stuff set up and I still re-read the directions out loud to him some. But he starts by reading the directions to me, we go through what was read in his book and we talk about it to make sure he got the point. Some days, it is good. Some days, not so much LOL. But every day is a lot of hand holding. That would be the route I would with your boys. It can be a trying time to get them to be independent, especially if they have no desire to be independent. But working toward that goal is what I would do. If it were me, I would probably have them start with the science since it seems like that box is a little bit less. Then I would move to the history. This year, if you didn't do the Shakespeare alone that would be fine IMHO. It is an optional resource anyway. But my goal would be to have the boys doing History and Science independently by unit 15. I think that is when the Mystery of History book starts. That book is VERY living, engaging, interesting and I actually think it is a little bit easier to read than the prior history books.

Also - one last thing that I do with my kids is I point out words they probably won't recognize - especially names or any bolded word in the science books - before they start their reading. This helps some. And I let them write down any word they don't know or understand and we can look it up together. That seems to help a lot. But give it time, patience and persistence and you will be amazed at how independent your boys can become.

[jjdmathnut]

Thank you so much for the advice and encouragement! Some of the suggestions I read here tonight were some things I had been considering, so these posts just reinforced what I was thinking of doing! I found the Shakespeare on Librivox, so I will have them listen and follow along in their book. We talked tonight about which one they would like to start reading independently, and they both said "science", so that was easy. I may pre-read it and make a note about anything I think they may struggle with. My boys have good attitudes; it's more been just ME who has taken what I thought was the easier route. BUT, it is time to let them spread their wings... Thanks again!!

[Little Women]

We are taking it a bit more slowly than the previous posters. We came to HOD this year from a different program, one which has the parent reading to the child for most of the history through 8th grade. My dd is 12 and can read to herself, but she loves to have me read to her and she misses the closeness of reading together.

Since she is my youngest, I don't have a lot of other guides I need to get through. (My older one still uses the other program, which is very independent in high school.) So with my 12yo in RtR, we go back and forth. Some days I read the history to her and some days she reads it to herself, depending on my schedule. We really enjoy the days we do it together, and I do not worry that I am babying her or that she won't develop the independence. She has a lot of years still to work on that.

Along similar lines, I found that with the oral narrations, since she hadn't done them before, she needed to hear me to doing them now and then. We kind of fell into that accidentally, as one day she was tired and whines a bit, "why do *I* always have to do this?" So I smiled and asked if she wanted me to do it instead--she isn't likely to take advantage of this type of thing and I wanted to show her it wasn't a huge burden and also show her how to do it fairly simply. She was quite surprised and pleased, and wound up impressed by how neatly it could be done, too. It was a win-win, because she has a better understanding and a different attitude about it, and we were able to be on the same page and work together on what needed doing instead of me pushing her into it.

Having gotten two kids successfully into college, I find that these things just don't worry me like they used to. I can meet their needs as I see fit now, and they will move ahead when they are ready.

[sarah_smile07]

I think that each child is different, so some may absorb more while being read to, while others prefer reading to themselves. Trust your instinct & do whatever you feel is the best fit for you & your child.

We are in our 11th week of RtR, & sometimes if our day is taking too long, or if the assigned passage is incredibly lengthy in Reading About History, I will read a portion or all of the assignment out loud to my son, while he draws (either his Ind. Hist. work or something of his own). I pause every once in a while to clarify a section of the reading, or to ask some comprehension questions.

The program has quite a bit of reading expected of the students, & so my son still has quiet reading times (DITHOR, etc.). I like the idea that one of the moms above suggested - reading a portion of the assignment to your child to jump start their interest & get them going, & then have them finish on their own. Technically, though, Carrie does indicate which boxes should be read independently & which should be done together. My goal is to gently lead my son toward the suggested independence. Good luck finding what works well for you & your child!

[Nealewill]

it's more been just ME who has taken what I thought was the easier route.

One thing I found out when I was considering HOD is that they assign a certain volume of reading based on how quickly they think a child should be able to read it to themselves. And I am sure you already now this but you can read much faster to yourself than reading something out loud. I personally had taught a chemistry course at my co-op and they gave me the CD where it is read out loud to you. After listening to the CD for 2 chapters I had to ditch it becuase it just took way to long to listen too! I could read at least twice as fast as the CD could talk.

And I had also considered reading things out loud to my kids but have found they do best if they read it themselves - and I make sure to do this for only the items it say should be read independently. I still read their storytime to them and probably will all the way through MTMM. I still read anything from any box that says the teacher should read. I don't mind doing that at all! But, I have also found that my kids reading level and reading speed has grown so quickly over these past few years (especially my oldest) that I couldn't be more happy. Even my son, who has struggled significantly with reading, has grown a lot too. I don't think it sounds like your kids struggle with reading but they may need time to adjust a bit to the volume you expect from them. It will get better every day. Don't lose heart and don't give up the first day they buck you on it. It really is a blessing!

The other blessing you will see letting them spread this wings is they will learn how to follow instructions on their own! I teach college accounting classes and teach mainly to adult (no-traditional) learners. I am always amazed at how these students at 40 years old still can't follow instructions! I have vowed, if there is one thing I will teach my kids, it is to follow instructions! By spreading their wings, they will be learning much more than just taking on that extra reading workload. They will be gaining a ton of extra skills too

Please let us know how it goes.

[luv2homeschool]

I will say that I did read Shakespeare aloud to my son last year. In Unit 1, I thought the box was a "T" and I didn't realize it was actually an "I" until we were well over halfway through the year! We did have a good time doing that together and I was glad I did it since it made me familiar with the plays as well. He has read his own history since CTC and his own science since Preparing. He LOVED the Zoology book and was constantly telling me tidbits from his readings. I will be reading the Storytime box to him all the way through.