current sonlighters considering HOD - placement questions

[mamagoettl]

Hi all! I'm a mama of 5, ages (almost) newborn to 9 1/2. We have been using Sonlight for the past couple of years but are looking to switch due to many issues including finances, workload (last year burnt us out! ) and a desire for stronger Christian teaching/doctrine/values within the curriculum. I was all ready to buy MFW and then found out about HOD... now I'm second guessing my choice to go with MFW and wondering if it would not only be less expensive but also possibly even a better fit for our family. However, I'm confused by our options. I'm used to a core with sonlight which i would do with my 3 oldest children together, and then separate LA & Math. I've heard I could do the same with HOD but that many people recommend purchasing separate curriculums instead and teaching them individually. Wondering how that works and if it would essentially mean doubling my workload to do that... if it's extremely time consuming that would defeat the purpose of switching from sonlight (which is often an overwhelmingly heavy workload for us that I find we were rushing to complete each day) to a simpler curriculum with room for flexibility, exploration and discussion... which I think is what MFW and HOD both seem to offer.

I have 3 school aged children, a 2 year old and a newborn due in October. My 5yo girl is starting K this year - she knows letters and sounds, her numbers etc but is not reading yet. My 7yo boy is entering grade 2 and is a slow but steady reader but has major trouble with writing and spelling. He is definitely more skilled with math than LA. Meanwhile, my 9yo girl is very gifted in the LA department and has been reading since she was 4... loves to read, can devour a chapter book in a day and comprehend/communicate easily. She is a creative writer with good penmanship but does get easily burnt out with heavy writing assignments such as written paragraphs, etc. She enjoys worksheets for the most part though.

So, given this info about where my children are at, would you recommend I purchase 3 separate programs for my kids or does it seem doable to combine at all?
If I were to purchase 3 programs, what should I be purchasing and what add-ons do I need to be including assuming we want the complete curriculum? I'm wondering if it would end up being more expensive to go this route and what all it would entail for a busy mom with babies as well as school aged kids. And we start school in one month so I don't have much time to figure it out! :/
Thanks!

[Jennymommy]

Hi Mamagoettl You are in the right place if your first priority is a God honoring curriculum. I really believe God led me here several years ago when other curricula I had tried just did not give me the peace of knowing that God was the ultimate authority and He wants to be intimately involved in all of our life. That is my goal for my children, and I am so thankful for Carrie's hard work to make that possible, along with a top-notch education
For your other questions, it would really help us to know what level of math and grammar each of your dc are at. The information you have given so far makes me think that you would be looking at three guides, however the younger guides only take an hour or two a day. Here's a link giving times for each box for the lower guides: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2093&start=135&fb_r ... age#p74537.

[Jennymommy]

Oh yes, I have also been very impressed with the shipping from HOD...it always takes just two days for my orders to reach me

[Nealewill]

As an encouragement - I came from MFW to HOD because I found that schooling everyone with the same material was not a good fit for my family. Most of the time it was way to easy for one or way to hard for the other. I did switch to HOD and it was a bit more expensive but it was totally worth it. In addition, I found HOD to be more open and go than MFW. I find that with HOD, they truly use things I have lying around the house. When I don't have it, I can easily improvise. With MFW, I was spending a mint on the projects. Realistically, in the end, I am not sure which was more expensive once I got done paying for everything I needed. For me, I switched to HOD because I did like their book selection more but I stayed because I like how the skills are built right into the guide. I also find that MFW always took me more time to prep - they use a book basket to help extend the learning - but we had a hard time making it to the library and I struggled with finding the right books for my kids. Plus, in HOD, they really tailor it to you child's level - that is why it is recommended you check the placement chart for you kids. Two of my kids are on the youngest end of the age range and one of my kids is in the middle. Other parents choose to put kids on the higher end of the age range. It really depends on the child. But the activities, volume of reading and writing, artistic creations, science experiments, it is ALL geared toward the level of the guide. Also - some people do combine kids and some don't. If you have two kids who are similar in abilities, you can combine and add in extensions for the older child. For me, I chose to go the route of having the kids separate. I found there was too much competition and my middle child was trying to ride off of the work of his younger sister. For me, I am glad I split them up even though we are only one level different. And finally - as the kids get older, they do a lot of the work themselves and you don't spend nearly as much time doing school with them. With MFW, I would exhaust myself with all the reading and running all of the hands on activities. In HOD, they learn to be independent. So if I don't bring my "A" game to school one day, the manual always has it's "A" game! I work from home and can get REALLY busy at times. I need a manual where my kids can take it and soar. At times I wish my life wasn't always so busy but HOD has been this best fit for us because we can get school done and get it done well. I just feel blessed to have found it, thankful Carrie wrote it, and am so glad it is interesting, varied, each level is balance, and every level is targeted to educationally grow my children....but my favorite part is that it is completely God centered. Many curriculums out there include God but in HOD, I feel like he is the focus, completely intertwined into each subject and in each guide. We have only been through the first 5 guides so far and are getting ready to use a 6th this year. I have read that manual cover to cover along with many of the books and I have been blessed again with seeing another guide full of God!

[mamagoettl]

Thank you all so much for your feedback!
In regards to the first question, I feel that my children are about at grade level for math, but I can only go by Horizons math as that's what we were using with our Sonlight curriculum. My daughter completed the grade 3 math curriculum and did well but it was challenging enough and I felt it was a good match level-wise. I'd say the same for my son who completed grade 1 math. They both did well for the most part although I would say my son enjoys math more.
For LA, as I said, my oldest (girl, age 9) is definitely the English student... LOVES reading, enjoys writing, very creative, etc. Her grammar is good but her spelling definitely needs improvement despite being so strong in other areas of LA. My son who is 7 had a slow start with reading... just no interest at all until about a year ago, then all of a sudden something clicked and his attitude changed. Since then, he has developed his reading skills quickly and has done well in comparison to where he was in kindergarten. He enjoyed the English portion of our curriculum well enough but did need my help regularly, where as my oldest can do most everything independently. My son's penmanship is not good at all. We spent a lot of time last year working on printing neatly and clearly. His spelling & written grammar is also very weak at this point. My 5 year old daughter has not done any formal school at this point and will be entering kindergarten this year. She loves to write and has very neat penmanship. She is also able to link basic letter sounds together and form small words, as well as sound out basic words, though she can't read books independently yet. In LA, I feel like she isn't very far behind my son... maybe 1 level rather than 2. In math, she is basically starting from scratch and is certainly not close to his level. She can count to around 15 without getting confused & mixing up her numbers, sometimes 20. She can add in increments of 1 or 2 (3+2, 2+1, etc) with a little mental probing from us, and likes to practice writing out her numbers, but is not very math minded at this stage. All the kids did really enjoy family reading/learning time together which was a large part of the sonlight model and I think MFW as well but I'm not sure about HOD. They all LOVE science too, and i felt like sharing one core for science was very doable between both my oldest kids (and including my then-preschooler as well) for the past couple of years. They would have the same woeksheets, and I would just need to help my son with his spelling individually or have him dictate the answers to me where as my oldest would complete her worksheets independently.

Hope this helps

[Jennymommy]

So, you have some options Know that you may get several opinions here, and all responders want to help you get settled You can continue with Horizons math if you like, or you can take placement tests for Singapore math and make the switch while the kids are still young. For your 5yo, I would start in LHTH, and let her sit in on read alouds with the olders. For your 7yo, I would look at Beyond, using the math that you prefer. This would give him time to gently ease into grammar and strengthen his handwriting skills. For your 9yo, I bet she would thrive on the independance she will be gaining by doing Preparing Hearts along with the DITHOR program. DITHOR allows you to use books you own, from the library, or the convenient book packs that HOD has to offer. As your dd moves up, she will be doing more independently which will allow you more time to spend teaching the youngers, although I usually try to do some reading/discussion with my older dc because I like to have time with them

[Nealewill]

I completely agree with Jennymommy. I think those guides are the exact same ones that I would recommend. However, if your dd is really good at reading and writing, I would look at the guide for CTC. It is definitely a jump in reading and writing from Preparing but it is also a lot more independent. However, if you have to push your dd to do her reading, then I would put her in Preparing. I would check the placement chart for both levels and look at the first week of plans. This will help you to see the volume of work that will be expected for her. I am doing Preparing with my 9 year old this year and it is a really great fit for him. But he is not that strong of a reader. He is getting better every day and this year will really stretch him and grow him into reading quite a bit by the end of the year. But if your dd loves to sit and read for a couple of hours a day, then i would probably consider doing CTC.

Also - I would also highly considering doing the HOD dictation for your oldest. Her spelling probably improve greatly using it. My oldest has struggled immensely with spelling and dictation has done wonders for her. HTH.

[StephanieU]

And I will just add that if 3 guides sounds like too much, just focus on the 3Rs for the 5yo. Let that child listen in on whatever she is interested in. There is a lot in Beyond that a 5yo can do and enjoy (my 3 and 5yo listened in some last year). Then, next year move into 3 guides - LHFHG, Bigger, and either CtC or RtR. Although I like LHTH, it just hasn't been successful here. We do pieces of it here and there, but I have learned that formal school before 5 isn't necessary, and at 5, the focus should be on the 3Rs. If they want more, that is fine. But my 5yo son isn't too interested in daily school work beyond math, phonics, and handwriting right now.

[mvillarreal]

SUPER following this post! I've been studying different home school curricula for about 6 months. We've been A Beka video users for several years (kindergarten and first grade with our 7 year old son, an k-4th grade for our 10 year old son). I have my own professional photography business which is run out of our home and I also run a non-profit that supports families who have been affected by pregnancy or early infant loss. A Beka has worked for us since I haven't really had the time to sit down and teach for hours a day (we also have a rambunctious 2 year old daughter). BUT...I've felt that A Beka, although I thought is was "freeing" me, has been tying us down to completing each video every day. Not much flexibility at all. So I narrowed my choices down to Sonlight and HOD.
We are moving in 3 weeks, which is the week we normally start school. I've really not been settled in my decision as I felt like Sonlight was somewhat meatier material but in turn, would require much more time from me. I've felt that HOD just might be perfect for us as we transition into a new home and into a new home school environment with Mom doing the teaching instead of a video teacher. Hoping to get some encouragement and direction here as I agree with mamagoettl, we need to order within the next few days!!

[Mumkins]

I think you're oldest would do best in Preparing as you said she likes writing, but not too much of it. Add DITHOR with which ever book pack she fits in best and probably the 2/3 student book.

I think I'd combine your next 2 in LHFHG, adding whichever phonics program you choose for your daughter and the emergent readers for your son.

[Nealewill]

Mvillarreal - I haven't used Sonlight but I have heard from many people that it is a lot of reading and can be exhausting. Also - I am not sure how independent it is. I know that some books that they use are read by the parent and some by the student. I am guessing that because it is cores, it doesn't move to entirely independent for quite some time. With HOD, by the time they use the CTC guide, the students do all of the history and science alone. In RtR, all of the Bible is alone. I only spend about 1 to 1.5 hours a day working with each child once they get to CTC. That is because I am teaching math, grammar, writing, dictation, storytime (which some kids do take over for themselves in CTC or RtR however, this is not required or expected and is a personal preference), and then there is a rotating box each guide that the parent helps with. So by the time they are in CTC, you are mainly covering the 3Rs with them and that is all. I am not sure with Sonlight when this type of pattern takes place in the family.

As for meaty - HOD is actually wonderful. I feel like my kids actually accomplish a ton of material and with balance and energy still left over. I know every year when we start, I am always a little timid about all the volume that lays before us. But when we start it goes really well. And I also work from home. I need something that is open and go and that my kids can complete as independently as possible. The nice thing with the lower levels of guides is that the lessons were very targeted, there was solid learning, but it doesn't take up an excessive amount time. I also used Abeka for my very first year of homeschooling but found that it was not a good fit for us. I like hands on learning but I also found that there were just too many worksheets. Abeka is definitely set up for classroom learning and I felt very bogged down by it. We didn't do the videos so it was just me teaching it. But with HOD, it is truly set up for a homeschool setting.

In some ways I feel like HOD has a somewhat traditional in scope and sequence. They introduce topics similar to they types of things they would learn in school and deepness is probably more similar in the younger years. They also treat science as a cycle. I love that they cover a ton of material but cover it deeper each time they get to it again. I am not trying to bash the Junior Apologia series because they are great books - but I found that my kids aren't going to remember as much year to year if they only see those topics once in elementary school. HOD covers them several times in the lower levels (LHFHG up through Preparing) going deeper and deeper each time. Then I CTC through MTMM - they are covered very deep but at an elementary level. By the high school guides, they balance and target those subjects in a way that sets kids up for success! But by then, the kids have a deep knowledge from them learning them in the younger years.

In other ways - HOD is not very traditional. My kids have actually "learned" way more than what the kids in school would have learned. Everything is completed with CM slant - and i have found this is really my kids best form of learning. I love that my kids have science every day. They do a weekly science experiment which is completely awesome. In Bigger - they actually have 2 science experiments each week. I love that they read a ton on their own with this program. With HOD - everything is geared toward a child's level. That makes it very easy to structure your day once your kids are placed correctly in a level. The guide tells you what to do and you do it. And I also just love the living books! With school text books (like Abeka), it isn't nearly as narrative. My kids didn't really remember as much and the learning wasn't nearly as exciting. We just started back to school on Monday and already my kids are coming toward me saying, "Hey mom, guess what? Blah, blah, blah." Or I hear a "hhmmmm.." It is just plain fun to see the excitement and wonder on their faces and in their desire to come find when they learn new stuff. I say this because my kids read a lot of the stuff to themselves. So they are learning a lot on their own and are so excited about it, they can't wait to show me what they discovered. For us - I feel like HOD is very interesting. I love that they cover the arts very well and that my kids learn about unique things. For example, in CTC they have watercolor painting as part of poetry. In RtR, they do a Shakespeare study. I love the inventors study done completed in Rev to Rev and I really like the music and nature study completed in MTMM. They even do a body/self/character study in RtR. My dd wilk be doing this next year and I am very excited about this. She is right at the age where her body will be changing and I think covering something like this with Godly resources is very healthy. She already knows where babies come from but there is just so much more to know about upcoming changes, thoughts, and actions than just that one little topic. It is developing a basis for the type of woman (or man for boys) I want her to become. They also touch on these topics in health in the World Geography guide along with a more targeted character study that will be included in the upcoming American History guide. These are unique things I think that are important to me in my homeschool and HOD does a wonderful job of including an interesting ways with a variety of resources.

In addition, I feel like HOD introducing things at appropriate ages. With Sonlight, one thing I have heard is that some of the books are more mature and difficult for younger audiences. I have actually heard this with several vendors - especially Veritas Press. For my kids - I love that HOD waits to use some resources until kids are a bit older because then it is more meaningful and it won't be scary. For example, they use Pilgrims Progress in the World History guide. I know some people read this to elementary aged kids. Uhm....not in this family! My kids would have nightmares. You know your kids and know what they can handle. But I plan to keep my kids as innocent as possible for as long as possible - mainly around the topics of violence.

With all of my rambling - you can clearly see I am biased toward HOD But I do love their curriculum. I have researched tons of curriculum and vendors, deciding to settle on HOD for many of the reasons listed above. I would just pray about it (sounds like you are already doing this). And then after you move, I would probably make a decision at that point.

And good luck with your move. I hope it all goes well. That can be a huge stress and having little ones around can amplify it.

[farmfamily]

I think you're oldest would do best in Preparing as you said she likes writing, but not too much of it. Add DITHOR with which ever book pack she fits in best and probably the 2/3 student book.

I think I'd combine your next 2 in LHFHG, adding whichever phonics program you choose for your daughter and the emergent readers for your son.

I agree with Mumkins. I think you'll find this option less time consuming than the 3 guide option. LHFHG can easily be beefed up with spelling/copywork for your 7 year old (if you choose), and then it is almost exactly the same level as Beyond. I think it is smart to start with as much combining as you can. You can always separate them later. My oldest 2 were combined a few years ago. Later they separated, but I don't regret the combined years at all. Once they get to the CTC level separate is about as easy as combined b/c it is so independent.

[mamagoettl]

Okay, so I am confused by the choices for LHFHG... there's the economy package (plus the starred options on the right) and below it there's the basic package listed and I'm not sure which one I need (or if it's saying I should be getting both? ).
If I was to combine my youngest 2 (k & grade 2)
Would I choose the kindergarten option or the grade 1 package? I feel silly asking but I'm just staring blankly at the screen with no clue.

[Nealewill]

In the economy package (part 1) , you would only choose one of the options. So, for simple sake, you pick the K option. Then, you would only choose one Bible (part 2). I used the 101 Favorite Stories from the Bible and we really loved it. Then you will go through and pick a handwriting book for each child (part 3). If you need phonics, you will pick one of those programs (part 4). The next section is the Basic Package (part 5) and here you can choose your science text option. God's Wonderful Works is the 2nd grade text but it is used in Beyond. So I would pick either the World God Made or Our Father's World. The other books come along with it. You will also need to pick which set of math books you are getting. I would add in the K books for this option. Then....you will need to figure out which math books your 7 year old needs. I would start with having him take the placement test on the Singapore website. My youngest dd started Singapore in 1B. The manual for Beyond has the schedule and hands on activities for level 1 in Singapore and the manual for Bigger has the schedule and hands on activities for level 2 of Singapore. Once you figure out which level of Singapore he needs, you may want to buy the next teacher's manual up so that you have those activities. You will also want to add back in the R&S book options for 1st for your 7 year old. And finally - Beyond has spelling lists in the back. If you want to have your 7 year old do spelling, you will definitely need to get that manual. One great thing with HOD is that if you order Beyond for next year, and you purchase the manual this year, all you need to do is tell them that you bought the manual from them last year and they will give you a credit for it on your bill when you buy the economy package. That is kind of nice! You still get the discount even though you aren't buying everything in the package right at that moment.

[farmfamily]

So you would need to get both the economy package and the basic package. For the economy package the only difference between K and 1st is the fine motor skills workbooks. You might choose the K package and have your K child do the workbooks. You could either buy the first grade workbooks as well for your second grader, or have him do something else to work on fine motor skills. When I had a 7 year old in LHFHG, I had her choose a poem from a poetry book that I own, then I had her copy a little bit each day and decorate it. This is similar to the fine motor skills in Beyond. For the basic package I would suggest choosing the K option because the book "The World God Made" lines up better with the activities in Little Hearts. I own both books and gave up trying to use the first grade one since it is not much of a step up in terms of content & it doesn't flow as well with LHFHG. I have both the Bibles, and I slightly prefer the Family Time Bible, but they are both good. Finally choose a handwriting book for each child and phonics for your K child. For your 2nd grader, it sounds like he is ready for the emerging readers (in Beyond). You would need to get the Beyond guide if you wanted him to do that. Also you could have him do spelling from that guide.