Reassurance/thoughts on placement

[ALHarp]

Hi, I am schooling 3 children (ds 10yo, dd 6yo {will be 7 in Oct}, and dd 5yo). I was thinking on putting the 2 older children in Bigger. We would be starting in August/September.
My ds is a reluctant writer and I thought that with the extension pack that this would work well for him. He is a good reader and we are doing read aloud type stories over the summer to ensure that his fluency is there.
My dd 6, was in a reading group for 2nd graders last year. However, she had trouble keeping up with the other students in the writing department. (I had outsourced some of the language arts curriculum so she was in a class setting for this last year.)
My dd 5, I originally thought would participate with the other two in Bigger, but after reading many posts/sights/etc. I am leaning toward putting her in Little Hearts. This will be her first "official" year of schooling. She is currently on lesson 26 in 100 easy lessons and is sounding out words to write a shopping list as I type this.

Any thoughts or insights would be greatly appreciated!

[StephanieU]

I wouldn't put a 6 almost 7yo in Bigger normally. And since she couldn't keep up in writing, Bigger would be a huge challenge. My oldest a younger 7, and I consider her a rising third grader. And Bigger is still a slight challenge/struggle with writing.

[The2youngs]

I second the idea to rethink placing a 6yo in Bigger, ESPECIALLY with writing struggles. Bigger is a LOT of writing for young hands.

If you would like to combine (as opposed to running three back-to-back-to-back guides), you might consider placing your middle with your youngest in Little Hearts. Since math and reading are done at their level, it would be easy to do. If your daughter is beyond the Emerging Readers, you could have her read the DITHOR level 2 books to you as her daily reading practice. If she needed to continue working on handwriting, she could use a workbook; otherwise, I'd aim for some daily copywork of some sort. Some days this would be done in the storytime box (have her copy the entire sentence, as opposed to just filling in the blanks like your youngest would do), other days perhaps it's your weekly bible verse, or a couple lines from the rhyme, a favorite line from your storytime book or history reading.

I'd hate to see your daughter struggle through Bigger, trying to keep up with big bro, only to get to Preparing at under 8. That would be tough work for her!

Alternatively, as I alluded to above, you COULD place her in Beyond, which is where it sounds like she might fit, but running three guides in a row would be a real challenge and probably wouldn't be recommended.

Have you looked at the placement chart just with her in mind? Where does she fit? What are your thoughts on that?

[Mumkins]

I too think pairing the younger two is the better idea. Perhaps your oldest would even be ready for Preparing?

My 2nd child was/is very bright. He started Bigger about 6 weeks before he turned 7. It was ok. Preparing, it was obvious I was dragging him along. In CTC, I had to pull back nd go down to half speed. The writing was just too much.

From my own experiences and reading others, it seems combining works best when they are very similar in skills. Its also best to choose the guide for the younger and beef up for the older.

[Rice]

Agreeing with the others. My November birthday son will be 8 this fall and will be doing Beyond. I can see where other kids could handle Bigger at this age (this son is a higher-energy, won't-sit-still kid so we kept him back the year - we consider him to be entering Grade 2) but I wouldn't suggest it a year younger than this (turning 7), especially combined with a sibling that much older who will be properly placed and ready to move on each year (ideally!).

I agree with the suggestion to beef up LHFHG for your middle one, doing the DITHOR Level 2 books (without the workbook this year), copy work every day (the sentence from StoryTime on Day 1, the Bible Verse, possibly illustrating it to display or give away on Day 2 and 3, maybe something from Science and a timeline entry on Day 4 and 5, for example). My son has really enjoyed LHFHG this last year at 7, without any "extensions". (He finished 100 Easy Lessons in November and is working through the ERs now, will do Level 2 DITHOR books this coming year in Beyond.)

One other non-educational thought is that LHFHG might be more fun with 2 - a lot of the Bible memory activities suggest throwing balled socks back and forth as they recite, etc.

Blessings,

[farmfamily]

I combined my oldest when she was 7 with her then 5 year old sister in LHFHG and then also in Beyond and Bigger. My 7 year old was very bright and actually placed in Bigger according to the placement chart, but she was very distractible & slow in completing assignments. I loved combining my two girls back then and I think it makes a lot of sense to do it that way. In LHFHG, I added things for my oldest: Rod & Staff grammar (as assigned in Bigger), I let her choose a poem from a poetry book and copy a little each day (like in Beyond). I had her copy the week's memory verse (as in Bigger), and I added DITHOR & dictation. Of course she did her own level in math. We also read some of the supplemental titles from the appendix of LHFHG. I think that's about it. Anyway the workload/challenge level was I think very similar to Beyond - or perhaps a little more difficult than Beyond. All the beef-ups were very easy to add in.

I continued to add minor beef-ups like these to Beyond and Bigger. When she finished Bigger, it was clear she was ready for more & was able to skip Preparing and go to CTC, which is much more independent & therefore it was easier for me to add in that 3rd guide. My second child did Preparing half speed. This method worked very well for us and got us through those teacher intensive years with combining. Separating was easy when it was time. Depending on your children you may never have to separate them. You can definitely have your middle child listen in on storytime with her older brother. She can have different storytime titles when she gets to Bigger.

So I would say, put your oldest where he places according to the placement chart and combine the other two in LHFHG. My current 7 year old is is almost finished with Beyond. He has done HOD all the way and does well with it, but I am thinking of having him do Bigger half speed. It is a lot for a 7 year old in my opinion. If he hadn't already done LHFHG and had a sibling who was doing it, I would definitely put him there with beef-ups.

Whatever you decide I hope God blesses you on your homeschool journey!

[ALHarp]

Wow!! Thank you all for your replies, I really appreciate it. So now I am planning on putting the girls together in Little Hearts. I looked at Preparing last night for the first time really, and that could be the best match for my son. I am now trying to figure out how to logistically get 2 programs. I like the fact that Preparing is gearing him up for independent work, where Bigger isn't as much.

I have been homeschooling in one way or another since my oldest was in Kindergarten (she is 23 yo). This is the first time I am looking at more of a complete curriculum.

So can you please, explain the differences between Bigger and Preparing?

Thanks in Advance!

~AmyLynn

[ALHarp]

I second the idea to rethink placing a 6yo in Bigger, ESPECIALLY with writing struggles. Bigger is a LOT of writing for young hands.

If you would like to combine (as opposed to running three back-to-back-to-back guides), you might consider placing your middle with your youngest in Little Hearts. Since math and reading are done at their level, it would be easy to do. If your daughter is beyond the Emerging Readers, you could have her read the DITHOR level 2 books to you as her daily reading practice. If she needed to continue working on handwriting, she could use a workbook; otherwise, I'd aim for some daily copywork of some sort. Some days this would be done in the storytime box (have her copy the entire sentence, as opposed to just filling in the blanks like your youngest would do), other days perhaps it's your weekly bible verse, or a couple lines from the rhyme, a favorite line from your storytime book or history reading.

I'd hate to see your daughter struggle through Bigger, trying to keep up with big bro, only to get to Preparing at under 8. That would be tough work for her!

Alternatively, as I alluded to above, you COULD place her in Beyond, which is where it sounds like she might fit, but running three guides in a row would be a real challenge and probably wouldn't be recommended.

Have you looked at the placement chart just with her in mind? Where does she fit? What are your thoughts on that?

Heather, I looked last night with just her in mind and think that she would place into Beyond or even Bigger. Taking into account the feedback I have gotten, I would lean towards either Little Hearts or Beyond.

A friend of mine who uses HOD and knows my children would personally recommend Beyond for BOTH my girls as she feels that Little Hearts would be too easy/simple for my younger DD.

My younger DD just turned 5 in April. She is on lesson 30 of Teaching Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons. She is reading simple words in her environment with no prompting and is sounding out words for a shopping list. (She wrote cotaj for cottage as she was writing on the shopping list.) She knows all her letter names as well as capitals and lowercase. She can count from memory to 22 consistently. Recognizes objects in groups of less than 5 without counting. She has 1 to 1 correspondence down. She recognizes and writes numerals 0-9. She has some of her basic addition facts memorized.

Thoughts on this?

[Nealewill]

I would not put your youngest in Beyond. The major problem you will experience is that your youngest will be 6 when she goes into Bigger and then 7 when she reaches Preparing. Honestly, I didn't feel like there was huge leap from Little Hearts to Beyond. But from Beyond to Bigger felt much larger. I actually started Beyond when my youngest was 5.5 years old thinking the same thing as you. She completed Beyond very well with no problems. However, her attention span was the issue with moving her up to Bigger and I KNOW she would have complained if I had told her do all of the writing in Bigger. Once you get to Preparing, the reading assignments increase through out the year dramatically. I know that even though my youngest is a great read and strong writer, again, her attention span would be really tested in completing the guide.

When I started HOD, I placed my oldest at 8 in Preparing and my other two kids (7 & 5) in Beyond. However, last year I split the other two up. I know it would have been stretch for my youngest to complete Bigger. Could she have actually done it? Yes. But I don't think she would have enjoyed her year. Now with my son going into Preparing, I know that she would have really been stretched thin this year and would have probably struggled should I have considered putting her into this guide. So....after praying about it, last year I placed my youngest is Little Hearts (I went down in level) and my middle child in Bigger. It was actually the BEST decision I could have made. I consider my youngest to be gifted and she actually read most of the storytime, history and science to herself by the end of the year. But she loved what learned! I did it as is with adding a little of copy work (making more similar to Beyond). She had a ton of fun. Were some things easier for her? Sure. Did she learn a ton? Absolutely.

For what it is worth, I really pushed my oldest way too much. She was miserable. Finding HOD was a blessing for me because it gave me limits. I always felt like my oldest was a bit ahead and with that I just gave her lots of work. That was not such a great thing as she got older. With my youngest, she is actually gifted and does everything with ease. I have learned a lot from my experience with my oldest and have put limits on myself too. With my youngest, she learned how to read when she was 3. She currently reads at a 5-6th grade reading level (she has read several books from the DITHOR book packs 3 and 4/5 girls.) She read most of her history, science and story time books. She loves to write and writes on her own a lot. She is currently working through Singapore 3A right now. She is advanced. And she absolutely loved Little Hearts last year. For kids to learn, they don't necessarily need to be ubber challenged in volume. That is a big difference between levels as kids move up. The volume increases as do the skills and independence. So for the younger years it is a bit more gentle but in a great way. With your youngest, you can do the handwriting at her level. You can do reading at her level. And you can do math at her level. That is where the challenge comes in. But the history and science volume are what increase as does the volume of copywork and independent writing as the levels go up.

It sounds to me like you are concerned about putting your middle child with your youngest in such a young guide. HOD does recommend combing kids based on skills. If your want, you can definitely place your middle child in Beyond, your youngest in Little Hearts, and your oldest in Preparing. You truly can have all 3 of your kids in separate guides. I never thought that I would ever want to do that but realistically, it has worked out wonderfully. If you chose to run 3 levels, Preparing is written to 4 days a week. For extra time, you could spread it over 5 days instead. Little Hearts takes about an hour each day. Beyond takes 2.5 hours max per day. To save time, you could combine with the youngest in a few areas. You could have your middle child and youngest combine for Bible and music from Little Hearts. You could also skip the story time in Beyond and have your middle child and youngest listen to the story time for Little Hearts. The books are wonderful!!!! All 3 of my kids came running at the beginning of the year when I started reading those books. Eventually my youngest took over her story time because she didn't want to wait for me to read it to her. And my kids loved them so much that they since had me order a few more titles from the series from Amazon and they read them on their own. For your oldest, you will be spending about 1.5 hours per day with that child (your oldest would do another 2.5 hours on their own). I would do that guide as is. For your day total, you are probably look at spending about 4 hours of your time on school with your kids running those 3 guides. When you start out, I would have everyone go half speed until you can get everyone into a good rhythm and flow. That might take a month or so. But in general, I think you will really enjoy your year. I know for myself, I love having my kids all separate. It gives me the opportunity to do things at their speed. I can slow down with them when I need to. I can give them that extra attention when they need it. And my kids are all 1.5 years apart. They are CLOSE in age. But they really thrive being separated.

What are your thoughts on that?

[ALHarp]

Daneale,

I don't believe that I can afford to purchase 3 separate guides this year. I guess erring on the side of easier would be better. I appreciate your thoroughness in your response. I haven't actually seen the guides yet so it is somewhat difficult to envision, yet your description helps a lot. Perhaps I will put my ds (older of the 3 children we are discussing) into Bigger. I have already purchased this and having time to increase his perception that he can handle the work in History and Bible won't hurt him.

I am looking at both Little Hearts and Beyond tomorrow, so I can at least gauge what the girls will be covering in the two guides. I don't like 'spinning our wheels', but from the sounds of it there are easy ways to 'beef up' the curriculum in order for it to have enough of a challenge for each of the girls.

I guess part of the decision comes down to "what is my goal in educating my kids?" Is it to shove information down their throats as quickly as I can or is it to develop in them a love of learning and allow them some direction in that learning? I counseled many a parent over the years that it is better to allow the work to be a lower level in the beginning and then we could extend it later on. This worked with many a student that I worked with over the years.

In light of this conversation, Little Hearts would appear to be the best choice for the girls. I will confirm this decision when I look at the curricula tomorrow. I have a feeling that regardless, I will be doing Little Hearts this year.

Thank you to everyone that participated in this thread!!

~AmyLynn
DD 23
DD 19
DS 18
DS 10
DD 6
DD 5

[The2youngs]

So, I wrote a huge long post, my phone fritzes and I lost it all. Then, I get on my tablet to discover that Nealewill has essentially written my post verbatim. Great minds think alike!

What I'm understanding you saying is that your 5yo is learning to read, has a decent grasp of letter formation, and has early math concepts fairly well internalized. Strictly from a placement chart perspective, she could fit in Beyond, despite not fitting the age range.

However, I agree wholeheartedly that putting your 5.5yo (will be in the fall) into Beyond may work now, but poses a major problem (in fact the same option you were previously considering for your current 6yo) when you hit Bigger next year.

From another mother who has perhaps pushed/encouraged a child to move farther up than perhaps was best, I really think I'd let my 5 year old just be 5. Looking back, my boys were just 5 and almost 6.5 when we began LHFHG together and man, they had a great time doing those activities together! We left Goliath's head high up on our wall for weeks after that unit and they'd toss sock balls or crumpled up paper at him whenever they walked by! And they had a blast doing it together!

You certainly have the option that Nealewill suggested of separating them all and running three guides. We will be doing it in the fall (1 beginning LHFHG, 1 continuing Beyond, and 1 finishing up Bigger and doing most of Preparing) and I'm not overly daunted by it simply because my kids are well placed and familiar with the process. However, I might be slightly hesitant to do so as an initial intro to HOD. Just my thought, but maybe you aren't phased by it.

A few questions that I had...

How would your girls feel about working together? Would it be a benefit to their relationship to have them working side by side for things like rhymes, history activities, science lessons, etc? Your answers right there may help you make a decision. In our case, my boys absolutely love being together so they didn't hesitate a bit to jump in together. My decision to split them at the beginning of this year (1 began Bigger while the other finished LHFHG) was due to extreme academic differences. They were both fine with having their own thing and are each doing well now, but to some extent, I do miss their being together.

Is your older daughter capable of basic narrations? How is her listening ability? What I did with my boys is we used the 101 Favorite Bible Stories option for one of our history books and after each reading, my oldest narrated while my younger answered the comprehension questions in the story. (Neither were required in the guide, of course, but it allowed me to tailor the lesson to their abilities). It is certainly not difficult to beef up LHFHG for an almost 7yo. And really, it doesn't require much.

Does your older daughter ENJOY writing? You say she struggled, but is it an area of tension for her? And beyond that, any idea WHY she struggled? Perhaps going back to the basics would be helpful for her, if it's a letter formation issue. Or, maybe she just needs some more time to develop, in which case giving her that time by letting it not be a huge focus this year would be an easy fix. LHFHG doesn't command much writing, beyond handwriting, math worksheets, and some fill-ins for the storytime box. I could see those things, combined with some daily copywork that increases as her abilities do, could really give her some confidence in this area.

Does any of that help?

Praying that you find some peace amidst what can seem like more information than you'd even like!

[Nealewill]

I think this sounds like a great plan. Running two guides instead of three is always a bit easier on mom . I think both kids will truly love it. Even this year my son would participate in several of the activities with my youngest and he was 8 for the better part of the year. He even asked to do some of the art projects with is younger sister and he usually hates art LOL. I think your kids will love their year. And Bigger is wonderful too. I see that you mentioned that your son is a reluctant writer. This will get your son writing and will be an encouragement on his journey. My son has auditory processing disorder so writing freely is a real challenge for him. But thanks to HOD, his hand muscles will at least be built up and strong for when he does start doing more free writing this year in Preparing. Plus, the books are amazing. I read several of the extension books as part of story time based on the genre. We read Ben and Me for Biography. We read By the Great Horn Spoon for Humor. And we read Buffalo Knife for historical fiction. My son loved them all. (We mixed and matched books for story time so that is why I had a few of the extension books). Some are a bit challenging in vocabulary but I think they are so engaging that your son will really want to continue reading. Even my oldest read a few of the extension books on her own and thoroughly enjoyed them. I do hope your son loves them. This level will be dear to my heart for a long time because really helped my son tremendously grow in skills this year and I think with your son, he will enjoy his year and be very prepared for future guides using Bigger.

[ALHarp]

So, I wrote a huge long post, my phone fritzes and I lost it all. Then, I get on my tablet to discover that Nealewill has essentially written my post verbatim. Great minds think alike!

What I'm understanding you saying is that your 5yo is learning to read, has a decent grasp of letter formation, and has early math concepts fairly well internalized. Strictly from a placement chart perspective, she could fit in Beyond, despite not fitting the age range.

However, I agree wholeheartedly that putting your 5.5yo (will be in the fall) into Beyond may work now, but poses a major problem (in fact the same option you were previously considering for your current 6yo) when you hit Bigger next year.

From another mother who has perhaps pushed/encouraged a child to move farther up than perhaps was best, I really think I'd let my 5 year old just be 5. Looking back, my boys were just 5 and almost 6.5 when we began LHFHG together and man, they had a great time doing those activities together! We left Goliath's head high up on our wall for weeks after that unit and they'd toss sock balls or crumpled up paper at him whenever they walked by! And they had a blast doing it together!

You certainly have the option that Nealewill suggested of separating them all and running three guides. We will be doing it in the fall (1 beginning LHFHG, 1 continuing Beyond, and 1 finishing up Bigger and doing most of Preparing) and I'm not overly daunted by it simply because my kids are well placed and familiar with the process. However, I might be slightly hesitant to do so as an initial intro to HOD. Just my thought, but maybe you aren't phased by it.

A few questions that I had...

How would your girls feel about working together? They LOVE doing things together!! Would it be a benefit to their relationship to have them working side by side for things like rhymes, history activities, science lessons, etc? It sure wouldn't hurt their relationship!! I am sure that from time to time I will have to remind the older dd to let the younger dd do things.Your answers right there may help you make a decision. In our case, my boys absolutely love being together so they didn't hesitate a bit to jump in together. My decision to split them at the beginning of this year (1 began Bigger while the other finished LHFHG) was due to extreme academic differences. They were both fine with having their own thing and are each doing well now, but to some extent, I do miss their being together.

Is your older daughter capable of basic narrations? Are narrations like a retelling of the story? If so, she is pretty good with these. How is her listening ability? She tends to listen (except maybe when asked to do chores LOL. What I did with my boys is we used the 101 Favorite Bible Stories option for one of our history books and after each reading, my oldest narrated while my younger answered the comprehension questions in the story. (Neither were required in the guide, of course, but it allowed me to tailor the lesson to their abilities). It is certainly not difficult to beef up LHFHG for an almost 7yo. And really, it doesn't require much.

Does your older daughter ENJOY writing? I am not sure that she enjoys it. She doesn't spontaneously write things, though she chooses to make shopping lists and the like. But writing stories? Not so much. You say she struggled, but is it an area of tension for her? I say she struggled as she was in a "hybrid" form of homeschooling this last year. She went to the site based charter school for Language Arts and Math. I did the other subjects at home. She could handle the reading and such. It was the dictation that was hard as she hadn't had the full course of phonetic instruction. She also took longer to do the work than the other students. We moved her into the group after the first quarter of the school year and then moved her back down after another quarter or two of the school year had passed. She didn't seem to mind the work that might have been easier. She enjoyed schooling.And beyond that, any idea WHY she struggled? Also, I think the older kids picked on her some. I was not happy with the way things went this last school year and that is why the kids will be fully home schooled this next year.Perhaps going back to the basics would be helpful for her, if it's a letter formation issue. Or, maybe she just needs some more time to develop, in which case giving her that time by letting it not be a huge focus this year would be an easy fix. LHFHG doesn't command much writing, beyond handwriting, math worksheets, and some fill-ins for the storytime box. I could see those things, combined with some daily copywork that increases as her abilities do, could really give her some confidence in this area.

Does any of that help?
Very much so, thank you!
Praying that you find some peace amidst what can seem like more information than you'd even like!

[MomtoJGJE]

I didn't read all the replies, but scanned them. You can easily make Bigger more independent for your oldest. My current Bigger child is about halfway through and is reading either the history or the science each day. On shorter reading days she's reading both. She's also learning how to read the box to figure out what she needs to do for the rotating box and notebooking. She occasionally reads her English lesson and goes over the questions on her own, and does math as long as it's not a new concept.

[twolittlebears]

I thought I would add in another voice....I am using Little Hearts for a very bright 7yo son. I don't feel that he will be ready for Bigger at 8 if he did Beyond this year, so I chose Little hearts. What I am doing that may be helpful in beefing up is, I have scheduled in the next Rod and Staff workbooks from what Carrie has specified in the manual, they are: Going on eagerly, Hearing and Helping, Inside and Outside, Just Thinking and Choosing, Keep Doing it Carefully, Learning more and more. They cover the different animal biomes which goes perfectly with the Burgess books. Some of it is easy for him, but some is perfect for a 2nd grader. He can always use the cutting, pasting and coloring practice! Also, I am adding in Rod and Staff 2nd grade science which is just precious!! I also am having him make an animal notebook based on the Thornton Burgess books. He will draw and color each character and we will study that animal and make a section for each animal, add in little national geographic videos or wild kratts videos on them as well. I will have him make a story box where the characters are like paper dolls glued on to possible sticks, and he uses them to retell the stories we read daily! There are lots of super cute things to do with Little Hearts to beef it up for older ones. I know that some moms even use it two years in a row and just read different Burgess books the next year since he wrote so many!! The Burgess bird book is sweet and is a great option too, to do a whole study on birds. There's a great book called: "Show Me A Story" it has excellent narration ideas of making and using story stones, and lots of other creative ideas to add in creativity and break up the monotony of narration. My boys love retelling with Legos or drawing me a picture etc, and this book helps foster ideas. This may or may not have been helpful, but I like to share just in case, as I'm always so blessed gleaning ideas from other mamas!

Blessings as you work this all out! Let us know what you finally decide....