Middle School Math - BEFORE Foerster's Algebra

[Nealewill]

I would like to second No-nonsense Algrebra for if your child finishes Singapore 6B by 6th grade. My younger 2 kids are extremely mathy. My son very easily mastered his math facts with no extra help and my youngest is a whiz at multiplication already. For me, I plan to put both of them in No-Nonse Algebra for 7th grade. For my oldest, she does okay but she seems like she really needs more hand holding and time. She is on target to finish Singapore 6B by 7th grade. For her, we may use No-Nonse Algebra for 8th grade if we feel like putting her in Foerester's Algebra in 9th grade would be a better fit. There are never any simple answers. I do know that several parents I know told me that some of their kids who struggled with math when they were younger seemed to actually do better with Algebra. For my oldest, I am hoping that holds true. Now that I switched her over to Singapore (we were using RightStart), it seems like she is doing better. RightStart was extremely hands on, had a lot of review in it, had lots of games, but was over the top teacher intensive. Plus, they moved a bit quick and they had no student book. So if my oldest would get stuck, it was always up to me to hold her hand again and walk her though things. By the end, I felt like it was me completing most of the math program, not her. So we switched to Singapore and she has already grown a lot. For my younger kids, I switched my son over Singapore 3A recently. He actually probably places in 3B except he didn't learn long division yet. So he is doing 3A. My youngest had started 2A a while back and has been working through most if it on her own (that kids loves workbooks ). But I have dropped RightStart for both of them and they now all 3 using Singapore. I do think Singapore is a great foundation for kids and I do think that they are more than prepared to jump into an algebra program once they are finished with 6B. I do know that some people have used Singapore 7A and 7B but I have also seen that some people walk away frustrated. My hope is that No-Nonse Algebra won't be frustrating but that it will be a good jumpstart to learn something new while we wait to start a more challenging program.

[deb]

If it is just you that doesn't like the word problems, then I would go with No Nonsense Algebra. That is a good simple text. I would only count it as Algebra 1 for a child that has significant problems in math (most likely due to learning disabilities). Otherwise it is more an Algebra 1/2 (0.5) course. It won't have a ton of review, but it will go slowly with the new material, allowing your son time to mature before going into Foerster's in 8th grade as a real Algebra 1 course.

Stephanie,
What DOES high school math look like for a student with learning disabilities?? My ds (14 & 8th grade) is using RTR now (with modifications for his delays). We use a different math at a 5th/6th grade level. He really tries, but memorizing math facts is soooo difficult that I've backed off on that. Even things like remembering that in subtraction 'four minus zero' is not the same as 'zero minus four'. What has been working better for him is a mastery-based program, additional review worksheets that I make myself, and not assigning all of the problems.

He starts high school in the fall (although it might take 5 years to complete it!). I have been considering some of the earlier books in the No-Nonsense Algebra series. I like the fewer number of problems and the review. Do you have experience with any of those books or any advise for a non-math, learning-delayed kid who still wants to go to college and be an architect???

[StephanieU]

Stephanie,
What DOES high school math look like for a student with learning disabilities?? My ds (14 & 8th grade) is using RTR now (with modifications for his delays). We use a different math at a 5th/6th grade level. He really tries, but memorizing math facts is soooo difficult that I've backed off on that. Even things like remembering that in subtraction 'four minus zero' is not the same as 'zero minus four'. What has been working better for him is a mastery-based program, additional review worksheets that I make myself, and not assigning all of the problems.

He starts high school in the fall (although it might take 5 years to complete it!). I have been considering some of the earlier books in the No-Nonsense Algebra series. I like the fewer number of problems and the review. Do you have experience with any of those books or any advise for a non-math, learning-delayed kid who still wants to go to college and be an architect???

The challenge will be that an architecture degree requires Calculus 1 and 2 with trigonometry. Most colleges will expect your son to be ready for Cal 1 as a freshman, which means you will have to get through PreCal/trig in high school. So, you would not want a watered down curriculum probably. I would lean more towards VideoText than NoNonsense in this cases because VideoText is slightly more challenging and more standard in expectations. No Nonsense will be watered down and might mean a few gaps later on. If VideoText works well for Algebra, I would try it for Geometry and Trigonometry/PreCalculus.

[jhperry]

I find this thread interesting as I'm in a similar situation. My 6th grader will finish MUS Zeta this year so I will need a pre-algebra curriculum before we tackle Forester's in 8th. I had actually researched and found MM7 and thought it would be a perfect fit since MM actually recommends Forester's for Algebra (and they also recommend A Guided Inquiry for Geometry). We would like to get on the HOD path for Math beginning in Forester's. It seems MM has higher level thinking, especially in word problems, that I don't think we have had with MUS. But, after reading, I'm wondering if No Nonsense Algebra would be a better choice for 7th and then move to Forester's in 8th? Or would MM7, which is a true pre-A course, provide a better transition?

[StephanieU]

I find this thread interesting as I'm in a similar situation. My 6th grader will finish MUS Zeta this year so I will need a pre-algebra curriculum before we tackle Forester's in 8th. I had actually researched and found MM7 and thought it would be a perfect fit since MM actually recommends Forester's for Algebra (and they also recommend A Guided Inquiry for Geometry). We would like to get on the HOD path for Math beginning in Forester's. It seems MM has higher level thinking, especially in word problems, that I don't think we have had with MUS. But, after reading, I'm wondering if No Nonsense Algebra would be a better choice for 7th and then move to Forester's in 8th? Or would MM7, which is a true pre-A course, provide a better transition?

I think both options would work. If you went with NoNonsense, you would be focusing more on the higher level thinking in 8th grade and the lower level algebra baics in 7th. If you went with MM7, then you would be focusing on the word problems and higher level thinking in 7th and then both in 8th. I would probably lean towards maybe doing NoNonsense in 7th and adding Singapore CWP 6. Then you will be working on the word problems in the CWP book and the algebra in NoNonsense. That would put your child slightly ahead of a typical child coming out of Signapore 6b into Foersters.

[abrightmom]

Math is on everyone's mind it seems.

My DD passed 2a with a 94%. She missed NONE of the word problems. A couple mistakes were simple miscalculation. I was so pleased!! Tomorrow I'll give her 2B. She has been held back by a math program with more review than she needs. Her retention of new material is excellent and she is intuitive in applying math.

[abrightmom]

So this started as a Middle School Math thread ..... but I want to say that my DD8 passed 2B with flying colors! 88%!!!!!! And a couple misses were simple miscalculations (adding or subtracting being off by 10) and a slight misunderstanding but very very close. I am actually very surprised as she's done very little math this past year ....

I don't know if I should place her in 3A or give her the test. Time for a new thread ....

[StephanieU]

I would start at 3A, Being off by 10 doesn't seem like a big deal, but it means she is doing something wrong that is important (borrowing or carrying). And if she starts 3A as an 9yo, she will still finish 6B in 6th grade I think. No reason to have her finish before then!

[abrightmom]

I would start at 3A, Being off by 10 doesn't seem like a big deal, but it means she is doing something wrong that is important (borrowing or carrying). And if she starts 3A as an 9yo, she will still finish 6B in 6th grade I think. No reason to have her finish before then!

Thanks Stephanie . I agree with you! It will strengthen her problem solving skills and allow her to feel confident moving forward with holes plugged. She did FAR better than I expected and showed me that she has a strong math intuition as she was able to figure out how to problem solve on her own with unfamiliar vocabulary. She hasn't been taught how to problem solve beyond a basic level and so her intuition had an opportunity to shine. I believe she has been held back by TOO MUCH REVIEW and not enough new and "deeper thinking" math.

She has been telling that she doesn't like math because it's boring and too easy and takes too long ....

[Nealewill]

I would start at 3A, Being off by 10 doesn't seem like a big deal, but it means she is doing something wrong that is important (borrowing or carrying). And if she starts 3A as an 9yo, she will still finish 6B in 6th grade I think. No reason to have her finish before then!

I completely agree. I actually regret that my oldest dd is so far along in some ways because I find that sometimes math is a bit easier when you tackle some of these topics when kids are older. My son just switched over to Singapore at 3A also. He is 8, going on 9 this summer. I probably could have placed him in 3B but didn't want him to get done too quickly with Singapore. My son is VERY mathy! So we will see. He has already asked if he can do more than 1 lesson in a day. I have let him a few times. But I don't think he will be asking this next year when he gets to Preparing. I just don't think he will have the time like he does now.

[mamanlait]

Katrina, You are making me feel bad. My oldest has done Singapore K-6B and I've never recorded any grades prior to Algebra! We just give stickers for completion and have to redo missed problems.

Youngest is 10 and starting 4B. I'll tell you the one thing I learned with oldest and that is DO NOT RUSH through Singapore! Once you get done, you are sort of in limbo until they are at a developmental age to really grasp Algebraic thinking. For my oldest who is almost 14, we are FINALLY starting to see progress in that area. She did fabulously with Singapore and then struggled mightily with Videotext and Foersters. We have backed off and gone with a traditional Pre-Algebra program this year. I'm planning to move her back to Algebra for her 9th grade year using VT or Foersters. I like both. Neither are easy (I know it was stated earlier that VT might be an easier route but I really disagree with that). One is just Video teaching and the other is traditional. I think VT is better at teaching word problems but Foersters has more difficult ones, so that's a toss up.

Anyway, to get back to your original post, just go nice and slowly through Singapore. SLOW down when there is push back and review with a white board. My youngest is actually a more intuitive math student but she's a book behind where oldest was at the same age (very purposefully). I hope this helps you think through math.

Edit: I forgot to mention that we used MM for a short time with oldest (I believe it was 4B)-- I liked the work text aspect of it but it ended up not being a good fit. Anyway, I find MM and Singapore very similar in thinking processes. I considered using MM 7 for dd this year rather than a traditional Pre-Alg course. In your case, if you want to stay on track with MM, I'd go through 7b and simply begin Foresters when finished. I think your dc will be well prepared. I really wish Singapore 7 series was more like K-6, I definitely would have continued on for another year!

[StephanieU]

Katrina, You are making me feel bad. My oldest has done Singapore K-6B and I've never recorded any grades prior to Algebra! We just give stickers for completion and have to redo missed problems.

I am fairly certain the scores Katrina was reporting were the scores from the placement test, not from anything else No reason to keep grades until Algebra 1 for sure.

[abrightmom]

Mamanlait,

You have given me permission to breathe and enjoy a steady pace . I take your counsel to heart. I have been giving my daughter the Singapore placement tests to see where she should begin. I was so happy that she scored as she did. She surprised me !

[mamanlait]

LOL...that makes more sense. I was starting to feel like a real slacker!

I'm glad you feel confident about just keeping a sure and steady pace! In terms of 7th/8th math, I think some kids really are ready to start Algebra in Junior High but my oldest was not even though she had been prepared from an academic standpoint. There is definitely a developmental switch that clicks over. You should have seen her try to understand absolute values. Such an easy concept that produced tears and frustration. That was my first BIG clue that we needed to relax and just hit arithmetic for another year or so.

[MomtoJGJE]

I think, as with anything else, being ready for algebra just depends on the child. Also how the child has been taught through life (not just in their math books). My older three have no problem understanding basic algebra because we've been doing basic algebra their whole lives. My 5yo grasps pre-algebra pretty well for this same reason.

However, there is really no point in us getting to algebra early because from what I can find, unless you arrange special things with a school counselor, you can only start counting credits in 8th grade here and you have to have Algebra 1. So I'm following closely!

I started grading my oldest this year just to get in the habit. I'm using the reviews as test grades and practices as quizzes. She needs the accountability to not make mental mistakes, and I need the practice for keeping grades for when it counts.