Carrie/Julie/Experienced HOD Moms - Placement Dilemma

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daybreaking
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 12:21 pm

Re: Carrie/Julie/Experienced HOD Moms - Placement Dilemma

Post by daybreaking » Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:52 am

Thank you for all of the helpful suggestions. I greatly appreciate the time you've all taken to respond, as well as your very detailed answers. It's given me a lot of helpful insight to consider. :)

I have a question in regards to the suggestion of using a timer. We have tried a timer at times. Sometimes it helps, but other times it leads to my son feeling rushed/pressured, thus leading to tears, as he sees the time ticking away, while he still has work left. Plus, if he's in the middle of a project and I say "time's up," it's very distressing to him not to be able to finish. (I'll admit that so far I've always let him finish.) I'm also at a loss as to what to do when he doesn't finish his core subjects when the timer goes off, since I don't want him to get further and further behind as the days go on. My son loves math, but math has always been our nemesis, as far as the time it takes. Since he is just now finishing up R&S Math 6, it's too late to make the switch to Singapore Primary Math, with it's shorter lessons. Any suggestions from those of you who use timers?

Wife to one amazing husband and mother to two precious blessings from above:
ds22 & dd18

Nealewill
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Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Carrie/Julie/Experienced HOD Moms - Placement Dilemma

Post by Nealewill » Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:52 pm

If it were me for math, I would switch. I would see where he places on the placement chart on their website.

http://www.singaporemath.com/Placement_Test_s/86.htm

And remember - their levels aren't grade specific. Level 6A & 6B are pre-algebra level.

As for the timer, I was a little bit more generous with time for my oldest. I set realistic time goals for her that I knew she could accomplish. At first it was difficult for her. But in time it got better. The timer helped her for when she was goofing off more so than working hard. But I did set realistic times for her. Some times were a little bit longer than the HOD recommended time because I knew she just couldn't do it. Others took a little bit less. But I was generous with the timer times. I would normally set enough time for her that it could take up the 5 hours for her day to get done. It never did take that long. She felt great finishing her assignments in faster time than the timer. However, sometimes thins always took longer. For example - vocab always took her 60 minutes. No matter what! So I just told her to set the timer for that long. She didn't complain about it either. But I just knew it would take that long. If there was a science experiment, I knew it would take her 45-60 minutes that day. So she would set the timer for 25 minutes for the reading portion. And then 30 minutes for the experiment and writing it out. Sometimes she got done faster. Sometimes not. It also helped me to juggle her day better of what we accomplished before lunch and after.
Daneale

DD 13 WG
DS 12 R2R
DD 10 R2R

Enjoyed DITHOR, Little Hearts, Beyond, Bigger, Preparing, CTC, R2R, RevtoRev, MtMM

StephanieU
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Re: Carrie/Julie/Experienced HOD Moms - Placement Dilemma

Post by StephanieU » Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:12 pm

I don't know if I would switch math at this point if R&S is going well. At most you have 2 years left, and switching curriculums can cause problems with placement. For example, he might ace certain topics through 6 while not grasping topics in 4 simply because of the sequence of the two programs. But one thing I have learned is that you can always shorten the lesson by having them only do evens or only do odds. Think back to when you were in school - did you teacher make you do all of the problems? It is okay to only assign the evens, then check those. If he did well on the evens, then move on. If he struggled, then assign the odds. We do this with Horizons a lot of times. Most of these curriculums were written for use in schools (private mainly), so they have more seat work available to the teachers. Cutting down problems is fine.
Mom to
DD16 (completed LHFHG-WH, parts of US1 and 2)
DS14 WG (completed LHFHG-MtMM plus some of LHTH)
DD13 MtMM (completed Rev2Rev)
DS8 Bigger (completed LHTH-Beyond)

MelInKansas
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Re: Carrie/Julie/Experienced HOD Moms - Placement Dilemma

Post by MelInKansas » Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:17 pm

I believe that to start off with on the timer usage you would basically try to time a typical school day as it is now. In fact you should probably do it for a week. So instead of a timer with X amount of time to tick away, you use a stopwatch (the stopwatch function on a smart phone or something) and just time the actual time it takes to do things. Create a log of each subject and how long it takes, even including daydreaming or whatever. It would be up to you whether you should do this or have him do it for some things. Then once you have the information talk to him about how long things are taking and where do you think you could cut the time down. In what areas does he feel he does his best work and stays on task, but things just take a long time, and in what areas does he feel (or do you see) that he is not focussed and not doing it diligently, to the best of his ability, and therefore are areas that need work. Then, as Nealewill said, you set time goals that are realistic for him. If your daily schedule requires you to interrupt him in order to get work done with you, then he may need to work on being more interruptible. Perhaps subjects that are not finished in the allotted time in the earlier parts of the day he has to go back and finish during what might otherwise be free time in the afternoon. So it's not that he doesn't get the chance to finish it, he just has to do it later.

It sounded like you were not doing HOD now and were coming back to it. If you are starting a new guide things are going to take longer for a little while and that's just what you plan for. But about 3-4 weeks in you could try timing a week of school and see how that goes, see if you get any useful information or ideas for how to encourage him using a timer.

I personally hate being slave to the clock or the timer. We do not use it in our home. If my DD needs more time to finish something she gets it, but we do talk often about how she needs to work diligently, not get distracted, etc. It has not been a huge struggle with her, some days are better than others of course. Again for me, I gradually gave her more independence and more things she was expected to do on her own without my involvement. At first she was to work on one task at a time and I would check in with her on those tasks while she was doing them. As she has shown herself to be able to work on her own diligently I have had to check in less (and of course as we have moved on in the guide she knows well how to do each task so I don't need to help her as much).

I too would only switch math if it was not working well for you. I think switching would cause some problems and perhaps not be worth it. As StephanieU suggested, see if there are ways to cut down the workload without losing the learning that is needed. If math is a tough subject for him, he may need to do all the problems and exercises and it may take a long time to do. That may just be something you have to plan for.
Melissa
"The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases
His mercies never come to an end"

DD12 - Rev to Rev + DITHOR 6/7/8
DD10 - CTC + DITHOR 2/3
DD7 - Bigger + ERs
DS5 - LHFHG
DD2 - ABC123
2 babies in heaven

MomtoJGJE
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Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:20 pm
Location: Gastonia, NC

Re: Carrie/Julie/Experienced HOD Moms - Placement Dilemma

Post by MomtoJGJE » Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:13 am

If my kids are getting discouraged with the amount of work or the time it takes, I set a daily time limit. Then I have them start with the subject they like the least or is the hardest for them. If they choose to go past the time to finish the subjects they like, then that's fine... otherwise we will do them first the next day. We keep the daily time limit until it gets easier for them.

my3sons
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Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:08 pm
Location: South Dakota

Re: Carrie/Julie/Experienced HOD Moms - Placement Dilemma

Post by my3sons » Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:38 pm

daybreaking wrote:It sounds like the consensus is definitely CTC!! :)

If you don't mind, I have one further question about going that route, in regards to helping my son not feel so overwhelmed by the workload. To give you an example of what I mean, we're still finishing up our school for the year and my precious ds has been working for the last hour with tears streaming down his face, because of feeling overwhelmed about how long everything is taking him. He's a hard worker, so I know he'll eventually get done, but this is not how I want our days to be next year and I certainly don't want him to dread school. I'm a bit concerned since he'll be in R&S English 6 and R&S Math 7, both of which will have higher demands, plus he is very involved in music, spending (by choice) 1 to 1 1/2 hours a day practicing his instruments, doing music theory, etc., along with weekly orchestra practice and lessons. Since folks seem to agree that CTC is the best placement, does anyone have suggestions on helping him not be so overwhelmed by longer assignments?

Also, Julie, if you were in my shoes, would you school five days a week (or school through the summer) in an attempt to get through all of the guides or would you just let the last guide go? I'm a "completer" by nature and have always had my children finish all of their school books/curriculum for each year, so it's doing me in to think of not finishing all of the guides. At the same time, I don't want the rest of the years of our schooling to feel rushed and I certainly don't want our days filled with tears.
Hi daybreaking! In answer to your question, I would not school 5 days a week or school through the summer in an attempt to get through all of the guides. I may have answered differently many years back, but I now know the importance of enjoying the homeschool journey to its fullest. This year we personally homeschooled 5 days a week when we could because there were weeks that we couldn't do as much due to my Dad's battle with cancer. My dh also takes the boys fishing, working on his friend's farm, hunting, etc. when I am gone to book fairs. So, for these reasons, when I could do it, I homeschooled 5 days a week. I would not attempt to get more than 1 guide done in 1 school year, as I feel it would make our homeschool journey too rushed and too stressful. Life is so busy already, and time together is precious! I want our memories to be good ones. This takes precedence, for me, now. If I really had a strong desire to finish the last guide, I'd simply homeschool one more year and graduate my ds a year later. But, if I felt he was ready to graduate, and if I was ready to graduate him, I'd not do that last guide. :D

A few thoughts on alleviating ds's stress level and helping him with time management skills... I'd definitely do R & S English 6 half-speed, and I'd also do a large portion of it orally or on the marker board, clipping along with the lesson by doing it with him at his side, and assigning only one section to be written in a notebook. For R & S Math, I'd set the timer for 30-40 minutes, depending on ds's ability and attention span, and when it rings, I'd stop, picking up wherever you left off the next day, even if that was in the middle of the lesson (he is ahead anyway, and 30-40 minutes is enough math time for his age). I'd drop the R & S Spelling and just focus on dictation. I know this will be hard to do, but I used R & S Spelling alongside dictation several years with my ds Wyatt, who had speech delays and struggled early on with spelling. Dropping it was the best decision I made. It allowed him to focus more completely on moving through his dictation and spelling correctly or editing carefully with my help his written work. I did dictation daily, as I knew this was a struggle for him. It paid off! He just completed the high school WG guide and rarely misspelled words. Keep plugging away with dictation and focus on it fully! It will work! :D

I'd share the time allotments pasted below with ds, and set a timer (that doesn't tick loudly :wink: ) for him at the start of each box. :D I'd stay by his side at first, for the first several weeks for sure, making sure to answer any questions or hop in with guidance whenever he is 'stuck.' One thing that my oldest ds got 'stuck' on was his spelling in his own writing. He is somewhat of a perfectionist, and he didn't want to misspell anything. We worked on learning to use the resource he read from (usually a living book) to find how to spell the person's name, event, etc. properly. I taught him to first look in the book, then look on his IPOD dictionary, then to write and see if it 'looked right,' and otherwise I'd jot it for him on a marker board or sticky note. For my middle ds, he would get stuck on picking topics to write about. For him, I learned to help him choose a topic first, or help him get started. This helped him keep moving along. For my youngest, well he's younger, but his attention span wanders. For him, setting the timer, staying near him, and keeping him moving along rather than losing focus is what I need to do to keep him moving along. I make a rule of thumb at these upper guides not to let the time allotments go wild - if my dc are needing help, near tears, upset/stressed, going way over the suggested time allotment, I hop in and do whatever to help them finish in a timely fashion. :D This helped each of my sons see how they could move forward with their work, that it was alright if everything was not perfect, and that dawdling doesn't pay off (different lessons for my different personalities of sons). :D

In looking at the "Learning Through History" side of the page first, we're coming up with approximately these time allotments:

Reading About History Box: 30 min.(Indpendent)
Storytime: 20 min.
Project/ Written Narration Box: 20 min.(Independent)
Bible Quiet Time: 20-30 min. (Independent)
Independent History Study: 15-20 min. (Independent)

In looking through the "Learning the Basics" side of the page next, we're coming up with approximately the following time allotments:

Geography/Genesis Study: 20 min.
Poetry: 15 min.(Independent)
Dictation: 5 min.
Grammar or Write with the Best: 20 min.
DITHR: 30 min.
Math: 30 min.
Science: 30 min. (Independent)

This equals 270 min. a day, if all subjects were done each day. Grammar, dictation, Write with the Best and DITHR actually rotate through the language arts box, which means they aren't all done every day. This will lessen the overall daily time. Any boxes that are meant to be independent have 5-10 extra min. built into the time allotment above due to the fact that when kiddos are doing something on their own, it often takes longer than anticipated. So, we've built time in for that!

We found with Preparing Hearts that it took a little while to get into a routine, and then the time dropped back substancially as the year wore on and my son knew what to expect. :D So, you can anticipate after the initial training of getting into a routine with CTC that your child's time will drop back as the year progresses. :D

Blessings,
Carrie


I hope this helps! As much as possible, I'd try not to add anything extra to ds's day, to keep him on track with finishing within the suggested time allotments, and to balance his love of music with the needs of his school day. I think he will do just fine and will grow into the guide well over time!!! HTH!

In Christ,
Julie
Enjoyed LHTH to USII
Currently using USI
Wife to Rich for 28 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 23, 20, and 16
Sister to Carrie

daybreaking
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 12:21 pm

Re: Carrie/Julie/Experienced HOD Moms - Placement Dilemma

Post by daybreaking » Sun Jun 15, 2014 2:32 pm

Wow! You all have been so helpful and kind to share your expertise! Now that I've gotten such great advice on the guide, as well as implementing it without overwhelming my son, I have a piggyback question ...

Several years ago, we had started doing DITHOR, using the Level 2/3 Student Book, along with the 4/5 book suggestions. This past year I used R&S Reading, but I still assigned my son to read the DITHOR 5/6 recommendations on his own. (Independent reading, especially with the HOD selections, is a VERY favorite part of his day!!) I know for sure I'm going to use the 6/7 book selections, but I don't know whether he should use the student book for levels 4-5 or for levels 6-7-8. Any thoughts from experienced DITHOR moms?

Related to this, would it be wise to delay starting DITHOR, to give him time to get up and running with the guide, or should I start both at the same time? I have to admit I'm a bit nervous returning to DITHOR, since one of the reasons we strayed from it was the amount of time it took my son to complete his DITHOR work each day. We both loved the program, but it was taking us close to an hour to complete a day's assignment (and that was at the 2/3 level).

Wife to one amazing husband and mother to two precious blessings from above:
ds22 & dd18

my3sons
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Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:08 pm
Location: South Dakota

Re: Carrie/Julie/Experienced HOD Moms - Placement Dilemma

Post by my3sons » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:08 pm

daybreaking wrote:Wow! You all have been so helpful and kind to share your expertise! Now that I've gotten such great advice on the guide, as well as implementing it without overwhelming my son, I have a piggyback question ...

Several years ago, we had started doing DITHOR, using the Level 2/3 Student Book, along with the 4/5 book suggestions. This past year I used R&S Reading, but I still assigned my son to read the DITHOR 5/6 recommendations on his own. (Independent reading, especially with the HOD selections, is a VERY favorite part of his day!!) I know for sure I'm going to use the 6/7 book selections, but I don't know whether he should use the student book for levels 4-5 or for levels 6-7-8. Any thoughts from experienced DITHOR moms?

Related to this, would it be wise to delay starting DITHOR, to give him time to get up and running with the guide, or should I start both at the same time? I have to admit I'm a bit nervous returning to DITHOR, since one of the reasons we strayed from it was the amount of time it took my son to complete his DITHOR work each day. We both loved the program, but it was taking us close to an hour to complete a day's assignment (and that was at the 2/3 level).
Hi daybreaking! From what you've shared, I'd probably start with the 4/5 level and use the 6/7 Book Set. The 4/5 level has less writing in it, and it would be an easier transition than 6/7/8 right now. I'd delay starting DITHOR a few months, but then be sure to try to start it. The 2/3 level was daily in BHFHG, but the DITHOR plans in CTC are just 3 days a week. So, you'll only be getting through around half the genres this year anyway, and the pacing will be easier to implement. By starting it a few months later, you'll only be getting through around 3 genres. I think this would be good this year, and then next year in RTR, he can start the year with DITHOR right away and get a good portion of the rest of the genres done that year. By the time he does RevtoRev and MTMM, he can spread DITHOR 6/7/8 Student Book and plans over those 2 years, which will set him up very nicely for the WG Lit plans that follow. :D :D :D I hope this helps, and I hope you have a wonderful year with CTC and then eventually DITHOR!!! :D

In Christ,
Julie
Enjoyed LHTH to USII
Currently using USI
Wife to Rich for 28 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 23, 20, and 16
Sister to Carrie

daybreaking
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 12:21 pm

Re: Carrie/Julie/Experienced HOD Moms - Placement Dilemma

Post by daybreaking » Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:24 pm

my3sons wrote:Hi daybreaking! From what you've shared, I'd probably start with the 4/5 level and use the 6/7 Book Set. The 4/5 level has less writing in it, and it would be an easier transition than 6/7/8 right now. I'd delay starting DITHOR a few months, but then be sure to try to start it. The 2/3 level was daily in BHFHG, but the DITHOR plans in CTC are just 3 days a week. So, you'll only be getting through around half the genres this year anyway, and the pacing will be easier to implement. By starting it a few months later, you'll only be getting through around 3 genres. I think this would be good this year, and then next year in RTR, he can start the year with DITHOR right away and get a good portion of the rest of the genres done that year. By the time he does RevtoRev and MTMM, he can spread DITHOR 6/7/8 Student Book and plans over those 2 years, which will set him up very nicely for the WG Lit plans that follow. :D :D :D I hope this helps, and I hope you have a wonderful year with CTC and then eventually DITHOR!!! :D

In Christ,
Julie
Thank you, Julie! ... and especially thank you for being so patient with my MANY questions! You are a fantastic helper and encourager! :D

Wife to one amazing husband and mother to two precious blessings from above:
ds22 & dd18

daybreaking
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 12:21 pm

Re: Carrie/Julie/Experienced HOD Moms - Placement Dilemma

Post by daybreaking » Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:41 pm

It's been three months since you all were so helpful in my placement decision, recommending I do CTC with my son. I now have another piggyback question. :) I feel that the RTR Bible Quiet Time Options (Boyhood and Beyond, From Boy to Man, and What is God's Design for My Body) are exactly what my son needs right now, especially since he is 12, and have been considering doing them this year, rather than waiting until we hit RTR. What are your thoughts on this and if you think it's a good idea, what would your recommendation be for Quiet Time then, when we reach RTR?

Thank you! :)

Wife to one amazing husband and mother to two precious blessings from above:
ds22 & dd18

my3sons
Posts: 10702
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:08 pm
Location: South Dakota

Re: Carrie/Julie/Experienced HOD Moms - Placement Dilemma

Post by my3sons » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:53 am

daybreaking wrote:It's been three months since you all were so helpful in my placement decision, recommending I do CTC with my son. I now have another piggyback question. :) I feel that the RTR Bible Quiet Time Options (Boyhood and Beyond, From Boy to Man, and What is God's Design for My Body) are exactly what my son needs right now, especially since he is 12, and have been considering doing them this year, rather than waiting until we hit RTR. What are your thoughts on this and if you think it's a good idea, what would your recommendation be for Quiet Time then, when we reach RTR?

Thank you! :)
Yes, I think this is a good idea! I think I'd go ahead and do the RTR Boy Option with him this year. It is planned 2 times a week, and I think it would be easy enough to do. I'd even consider doing it one night a week, and maybe on Sat. or Sun. Choosing a private place and time to do it is important. When your ds gets to RTR, you can see what you'd like to do, but I'd guess just doing the Bible Study from RevtoRev together would work well. His maturity probably will be well-matched for it, and it would not be hard to do. I think a mama just knows when it is time for this type of study, and if you are feeling it is now, I'd follow that instinct as it will fill that need beautifully. :D HTH!

In Christ,
Julie
Enjoyed LHTH to USII
Currently using USI
Wife to Rich for 28 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 23, 20, and 16
Sister to Carrie

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