Placing a child who is "all over the place" skill-wise?

[Sue G in PA]

Hello ladies. We are officially returning to HOD next year and I couldn't be happier. Relieved and breathing easier might be a better description. We had a great year doing history with our co-op using another curriculum but I really missed the depth and the quality of HOD book choices. I will have an 11th grader who has chosen to use a different program for World History (he does not prefer the layout of the HOD Guide…ah well…to each his own and this is HIS education, right, lol?). My rising 9th grader chose to use HODs World Geography Guide w/out hesitation. While I would have loved to keep the boys together, this is what they want. My rising 4th and 6th graders will use Preparing. Both place securely in that Guide as my 6th grader is a bit behind in some areas and the 4th grader is somewhat advanced. Both function at about a 5th grade level. So, this leaves my rising 8th grader. Middle child (dead center…3 younger, 3 older, lol) and he is all over the place skill-wise. He reads at grade level. He comprehends well. His writing is poor..way below grade level. Struggles to put his thoughts on paper AND struggles in the actual mechanical act of writing. He will spend the summer learning to type. I've given up on his handwriting. He struggles to stay on task and honestly just hates school. I thought about taking a year off and focusing on writing, math and reading and trying to re-engage him in the learning process. And then I thought, why not try and place him in a HOD Guide by himself and see how it goes? But which one? He did Preparing a few years ago and it was a struggle for him as a 4th grader. When we skipped his older brothers ahead to RtR, we knew he would not keep up. CtC would have even been a stretch. So many issues are coming into play here and I need some advice. I think he is capable of doing more than he is. He is lazy. But he is bright! I want him to really be engaged in what he is doing, take ownership of it and build his confidence. So I want to challenge him but I don't want to frustrate him. Does that make sense? I am looking at CtC, RtR and Rev to Rev. I think Rev to Rev would be over his head…too much of a challenge. I think RtR would be a good fit in many areas and a challenge in others. CtC might be too "easy" even for him and I don't want to insult him. And then there is the reality that he will be in high school the following year, though we do not feel he will be ready academically in any area. We would consider that year his "8 1/2 grade" year, lol. What do you all think? He still needs a good bit of "hand holding" to get his work done. I also don't want to overwhelm myself Running 3 HOD Guides, plus another high school program and teaching a 1st grader as well (I haven't even begun to think about what I am doing for him!). Advice greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[LovingJesus]

The more experienced will be able to help you more. My oldest is 10.

I do have a question though regarding your 8th grader that may or may not help.

A year ago we discovered that my 10 year old, at the time 9, is left handed. We thought he was as a toddler, but it fell through the cracks of our busy home of young children. He wrote K - mid 3rd right handed. It really impacted his writing abilities, writing growth, and hand writing was painful. I did a lot orally, but it did leave him behind in writing & hand writing. In the past year, after switching to left hand, his handwriting has gone from a second grade level to beautiful small Italic in all subjects. His first creative writing has come out. He always loved reading & math, but now he no longer complains about writing! I don't know if it applies at all. Your post just made me think of it.

We used an eye test in the back of Ruth Beechick's Biblical Home Education to discover our mistake.

Welcome Back!

[Sue G in PA]

Thanks, Carin. I will check that out but I doubt that he is left-handed. He uses his right hand for pretty much everything from writing to sport but anything is possible.

[StephanieU]

Since you want him engaged in his learning, how about showing him some of the spines for each of the guides you are considering and let him pick his area of history so to speak. Tell him he has to stick with one guide, but he can help pick the guide. That might engage him more than if you just push the curriculum on him...

[psreit]

It sounds like RtR would be where he fits best, from what you shared. Maybe adjusting the writing is what you need to do. Someone like Lynn would be able to guide you better in that way. I believe her ds has dysgraphia. Maybe you are dealing with something like that. It sounds like he can do well in other areas. My dd has dyslexia and she is still in the ER books. She is 11 in May and in 4th grade. We are doing Preparing, which will probably last through 5th grade. I don't worry about grade level. If we are doing HOD by the time she reaches high school, she will probably only be in Rev to Rev. I will not hold her back grade-wise because of it. As long as she is progressing, that is what matters. She is already older for her grade level. Not every child will complete the same amount or type of work. Find the best place for your ds and move forward form there. If he is not in the WG guide by 9th, that's okay. You just need to get him working consistently from where he places. That is where I messed up. We had some frustrations while in Bigger, because of dd's reading and math issues. Even though we needed some special guidance in those areas, I could have continued Bigger through all that. So, I feel dd missed some things last year by stopping HOD. We could have done our special reading and math programs along with Bigger. So much meat in the guide that would have been beneficial. So, when you find the guide for your ds, just let him move forward from there. I'm sure there are others who could give you some tips to help.

[countrylivin]

Last year I switched 5 of my kiddos over to HOD guides, and my 13 year old son, who has struggled with reading & writing over the years, just successfully completed Rev to Rev this last week. We began short - 5 sentence written narrations with a lot of hand holding, but by the end of the year he was doing the full written narration on his own. He was triumphant as he finished his guide this week. He looks back to what he was able to do at the beginning of the year to the end, and he even sees his huge improvement I just wanted to let you know of our success even though he didn't place technically into this guide. I was so green in HOD that I didn't understand how important proper placement was He thrived this past year like I never dreamed that he could. Blessings as you choose!

[Nealewill]

From what you said it sounds like RtR is probably the best fit. Also you could definitely make Rev to Rev and MTMM high school worthy. That is what many families have done and that might be a great option for you. Just a thought.

[Sue G in PA]

Thank you all for your thoughts! My 14yo used Rev to Rev last year (as a 13yo) and I just "know" that his brother would struggle. I think the Science in Rev to Rev would work (b/c I found EE Physical Science a bit on the "light" side), but we do science with our co-op anyway. He is not a motivated reader, if that makes sense. He CAN read and read well but he does like to read. I probably won't even have him do the Extensions in RtR right away…maybe select ones that I remember enjoying when my older sons did RtR. Steph, you wondered if allowing him to choose the Guide would work. This child does not want anything to do with schoolwork so he wouldn't care one way or another. He'd say "I don't want to do either". His life revolves around legos and Batman (superheroes). He loathes History (and the curriculum we used this year for American with our co-op didn't help matters…it was rather dry). The other thing to consider is that he just did American and Rev to Rev has quite a bit more American History than RtR. I think he needs a year off. He'd love a year off from History period so that is something else that is just giving me pause. I sure wish HOD had a Geography Guide in the younger years! Hear is another crazy option…perhaps he could do parts of World Geography with his older brother? He is capable of the reading, the maps in Mapping the World with Art and projects, I'm quite sure. We would just do another math, LA, writing (a different level of EIW) and perhaps use DITHOR for lit. What do you all think about that plan?

[Tidbits of Learning]

I think the plan to try WG might be a good one. If you are ordering it for your 9th grader anyway, you could get it and feel out the books and then see if it would work for him to just do the World Geography, World Religions and Cultures, and Religion for the guide while you sub in his own math and language arts. We haven't started it yet with my dd13 as we just got the books but the written narrations might would have to be adapted for him.

[Carrie]

Sue,

The ladies are doing a great job of helping you talk through your options. I'm just wanting to clarify how old your son that we are discussing will be when he begins whatever HOD guide you end up using for him. Will he be going into 8th grade or going into 9th grade? This will definitely make a difference in our thoughts as to where he will fit best, as it helps to look ahead a bit to see what might potentially work in the longer haul too if need be.

Blessings,
Carrie

[Sue G in PA]

My son will turn 13 in May and will be entering the 8th grade. Skill-wise, he is not a typical 8th grader. His reading level is, perhaps, the only skill that is at or above grade level. He needs significant remedial work in writing and spelling and is even a bit behind in his math (thought math does not concern me for HOD placement purpose ). As I said, his older brother used RevtoRev last year and I just do not think this child capable of doing what is required. He is especially not capable of the independence. I'm looking forward to hearing your advice, Carrie. Thanks for responding!

[LynnH]

He does sound like he could possibly have dysgraphia. I know for my son who has difficulty with the mechanical aspect of writing as well as size of letters and spacing issues typing makes a huge difference in his attitude towards school. If he had to write everything he would hate school. You said you are focusing on typing this summer. Do you think that if he is allowed to type the majority of things that this would help his attitude? Here is what all my ds types. He types his written narrations, answers to science questions,and any writing assignments in the writing programs or in Rod and Staff. He also typed any research things. When we did DITHOR he usually dictated that to me although sometimes he wrote to fill out the worksheets. He even types his studied dictation. He does it on wordpad which doesn't have spelling or grammar correction turned on. The things he writes are filling out the bible workbook, most copywork, and his timeline entries. We do Rod and Staff almost completely orally with a little diagramming on the white board.

Carrie will be better able to advise you about your idea of doing parts of the WG guide, but for my son that would be very frustrating and make his attitude worse to know that he wasn't able to do most of the guide as written and have a brother that was able to. There is so much written follow ups that are supposed to go with the readings in the WG guide. My ds at 14 has really struggled this year with knowing that there are things other kids his age do easily that he struggles with. It has never really bothered him before, but now it does. Maybe that is part of what is going on with your ds especially if he is comparing himself to his older brother. I wonder if doing RTR and allowing him to type most things might help him to feel more successful.

[lmercon]

Your description of your ds just screams dysgraphia. It's a real learning disability and can definitely affect his perception of himself as a student. I would look for any and all ways that you can limit the amount of writing that he has to do. Have him dictate his narrations to you. He could then type the narration and tape it in his notebook, or you could simply write it in the notebook as he dictates. I would use the writing instruction in the guide, for example IEW in RTR, as the written work that he must focus on and do well. All other written work, imo, should be modified. If I were you, I would place him in the guide that best matches his "intellectual ability." That way, you are engaging him at his interest level, which will help with the "school enjoyment factor." I have had to do this for many years with my ds. His severe dyslexia has kept him from doing the guides without significant accommodations by me. If I placed him according to where he is because of his learning disability, he would be bored and disengaged.
hth,
Laura

[Sue G in PA]

Dysgraphia. I've often wondered. So much of his attitude has always screamed "LAZINESS" that the idea of a real learning disability was often tossed aside. We already do his grammar verbally, except diagramming and the occasional R&S worksheet (for portfolio reasons). He hates writing so much that he attempts to do ALL math in his head so he doesn't have to write down anything. As far as intellectual ability and placement, idk where to put him. I still think RtR is a good fit NOW. Part of me wants to take the entire year off from History and focus on getting his writing, math and spelling skills up to speed. I'm in a state of confusion with this right now and I know better than to make any decisions while in such a state.

[psreit]

When my dd went to kindergarten, her teacher looked at her unwillingness to work as a behavioral issue. I knew at the time she definitely had a learning disability, but it wasn't until 3rd grade that I realized so much of it pointed to dyslexia and she was unofficially diagnosed by our educational consultant. So, I understand how it can look like they are just being defiant. As I mentioned, I stopped Bigger when I felt like we hit a wall. I wanted to do the same thing...concentrate on reading and math. We did that for a few months, and ended up coming back to HOD anyway. I could have continued Bigger, even in the midst of everything else. I could have just adjusted some things. While in the special reading program, we would have omitted the grammar and spelling in Bigger, and we did not do the ER books for a while. We stopped the special program. We are now doing Preparing 1/2 speed. But, we do the basics every day. We do not do dictation. I am using a different spelling until her skills build in that area as well. Many of the activities in Bigger would have been beneficial. So, I wouldn't totally cut out history. Maybe you could still do the reading and some narration and art projects. You don't want your ds doing math and spelling all day If you feel RtR is the best fit, I say, go for it