Long Days and Son Hates School

[momto2boys]

We are doing DITHOR with both boys. I'm doing level 2/3 with the younger and level 4/5 with the older.

[Mamamindy]

This is a great thread! Thank you to all who have contributed. I have gotten a lot of insight for some struggles we are having here.

Daneale - Would you mind sharing what apps you have used for multiplication. The struggles your daughter had with multiplication is exactly what my son is struggling with right now.

[Nealewill]

Absolutely - we use "AppTutor" and they have separate apps for multiplication and division (also for rounding, long addition, long subtraction, etc). Each one of the apps has an owl on the cover. And they have a video where the "teacher" explains the concept. For me - my dd liked seeing the steps over and over again in the video. It helps the concept solidify in her brain. And for whatever reason, she seems to need that extra teaching. The video does that for her.

As for app games, we have used my math fash cards app, mathmeteer free, ab math lite, 6 numbers by brainbow. For the games - there are TONS. We rotate those through. We delete some and add others. I had a mermaid one that my kids liked recently but I have deleted it But those are just more about speed with the basic functions.

[my3sons]

... did 1A/1B and part of 2A last year. We went through some of it quickly because he was doing well with it at the beginning and had learned some of it in public school. He actually loves math if he "gets" it and will keep doing pages if I don't catch him and stop him first. But, if he doesn't understand the concept or if he has word problems it's all tears. He is having a hard time with division. I have tried giving him index cards and legos to use to divide out the correct number but he still gets very frustrated with it. He also still uses his fingers to count out simple math problems. We are almost done with 2A, I think we have about 10 pages left. My older son is on 3A. He does okay, I would like him to be able to blurt out some answers without sitting and thinking about it or counting them out first.

I think I was worried that we wouldn't be getting enough school time in if I slowed them down, but I see where it can be very beneficial.
I tried the timer today and started trying to make a schedule. We only did half a day because we had a church activity to go to. R&S took 30 min. each, definitely an improvement, they were both on reviews today also. We will have to keep working on it to see if we can get our times better.

I am definitely going to put all of this advice to use! I truly appreciate all of your help!!! I feel very hopeful now!

I'm glad you tried the timer and started putting together a schedule! I always find it interesting what I figure out with the timer. I used it myself yesterday and today and figured out my 6 yo is taking 30 or more minutes to do 4-6 lines of poetry copywork (and he writes just fine). Turns out he was meandering to get his special drink, to see his big brother, to check on his beanie balz, to race a little match box car. Yikes! Having older sons I forget how those younger ones need me to really focus on them! I bet you'll figure out some good things with the timer too. Oh, and those R & S English Review days take longer than average - so I bet you'll see an even bigger time drop-off on the regular days!

For math, it sounds like ds wants to whiz through things, but probably should do an even pace. The steady diet of consistent amounts of math planned each day will keep him from racing into harder things he is not ready for, and it will also give him time to get those facts down better. Is he doing all of the hands-on math plans for 2A with you that are planned? I'd not skip those, even if it seems he 'gets it' without them. Those hands-on math plans helped our sons get their facts down well, as they have them repeatedly skip counting, using tips and tricks, and eventually easily mentally visualizing what they first used manipulatives to do with their hands. For your ds in 3A, you could certainly add 5 minutes a day of math flashcards practice and 5 minutes a day of math flashcards with you. If it's just multiplication and division facts that he doesn't quick blurt out the answer, that's probably just fine, as his practice with them in 3A/3B will help him get those down. If you do use flashcards, you can narrow the amount and help the speed of memorization by doing some sorting. I'd set timer for 5 minutes and any cards he doesn't answer with in 3 seconds, put in the 'doesn't know well yet' pile. Any he answers with in about 3 seconds, put in the 'doesn't need to study pile.' Then, after you've taken several days to get through the whole multiplication deck, take your 'doesn't know well yet' pile and sort those into 'x 2', 'x 3', 'x 4', etc. Have him practice them in groups like that, and limit practice to 5 minutes. It's important he sees the answer when studying (i.e. look at the 4 x 8 = 32 side of the card when studying them). This constant visual look at the right answers helps the facts to stick better, as the mind is like a camera and can capture what it sees repeatedly well. Then, set the timer for 5 minutes and have him hand you the pile he's practiced and see if any can be moved to the 'doesn't need to study' pile. Eventually, he'll be down to just a handful of tough facts, and soon - he'll know those too!

Here is a past thread that may help too...

Our informal tips for encouraging number sense and fact memorization in math:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12850&p=92565

I agree that slowing things down can sometimes be just what is needed to make things click better. A half-speed school day where the student is fully engaged, doing all that is in that part of the plans, and giving it his all is better than a full-speed school day where things are skipped, tweaked, or rushed. I can tell you that because I have needed to go half-speed various times with several of my dc. The benefit of it is seeing how they finish out the last half of the guide (usually full-speed at that point). The improved quality of the work is so worth it. I hope something here helps, but I want you to know that you are doing a super job of digging into how to have the best homeschool days ever! Your dc are blessed to have you as their mother and their teacher.

In Christ,
Julie

[momto2boys]

I just wanted to give an update. Things are going much better and smoother. My husband and boys love the written schedule and everyone is happier! I started on dictation with my youngest son and he is so excited about doing it and has done perfectly. He doesn't dread it like he did spelling. Math is improving and he is flying through it again. I'm trying to keep him at a steady pace, he loves to do extra pages thinking he gets extra credit for them. The older son was having trouble with 3 digit division and the younger son was showing him how to do it and couldn't figure out why his brother didn't understand. LOL What a difference! Thank you all so much for your help. Now, I need to keep him out of his future books. Every free minute that he has he is reading and I am constantly catching him with books from later in Bigger or in Preparing. He loves to "listen" in on his brothers lessons even though I think that I have him involved in something else. I'm a little worried that he will be bored with Preparing because he has already heard it all.

[MelInKansas]

I have this problem with a daughter who would read everything she possibly can and has probably read a lot of stuff she shouldn't. School books are kept on a bookshelf in my bedroom, or in drawers in my bedroom and they may NOT be gotten out unless they are being used for school by the student they are for. Now, I will catch my oldest reading her younger sister's history books at times, which I let her read them and then put them away. She also has a bad habit of reading ahead when it is independent reading. We are working on obedience in this area. Anyway.... I'm glad things have been going a lot better with your boys and pray it will continue to be a blessing for you!

[MomtoJGJE]

FWIW we do that level of R&S completely orally. In fact, pretty much the only grammar we do written is diagramming Sometimes I'll have my oldest dictate the diagram to me. I think I'd stop after 10-15 minutes no matter what. Maybe split a lesson into two days if needed? Read the lesson and do the oral part and then the next day read the lesson and do the next part. Even when they have to make up sentences about a picture they do it orally. I go over what goes at the beginning of sentences and what goes at the end and what each type of sentence is called, etc.

When my kids get ahead in math (they work basically at their own pace on math... if they finish everything else and want to do more math, I'm good with that!) and then get to where they are struggling, we slow down to one page per day until they get past that struggle.

I'd suggest slowing both of them down to half speed and really working to make sure they understood each box and what is to be done.Once you get to where it's working well for everyone with no (or few) tears. Then I'd move to full speed with the Preparing child until they are really in the groove, making sure they can do all the I and S boxes with little work from you. Then I'd go back to doing the Bigger child full speed. This would probably take a month or so, but I think it would be well worth it.

[Nealewill]

I just wanted to give an update. Things are going much better and smoother. My husband and boys love the written schedule and everyone is happier! I started on dictation with my youngest son and he is so excited about doing it and has done perfectly. He doesn't dread it like he did spelling. Math is improving and he is flying through it again. I'm trying to keep him at a steady pace, he loves to do extra pages thinking he gets extra credit for them. The older son was having trouble with 3 digit division and the younger son was showing him how to do it and couldn't figure out why his brother didn't understand. LOL What a difference! Thank you all so much for your help. Now, I need to keep him out of his future books. Every free minute that he has he is reading and I am constantly catching him with books from later in Bigger or in Preparing. He loves to "listen" in on his brothers lessons even though I think that I have him involved in something else. I'm a little worried that he will be bored with Preparing because he has already heard it all.

that is SO wonderful to hear. I am so glad that things are going so much better for you! I understand your concern for your younger who is listening in the books in Preparing. I also have the same issue with my younger 2 listening in while I read the stories and history book to my oldest. My hope is that in 2 years it will all be fine. But if they remember it, I am not too worried about it either. They like in now. And there have been other books I have reread to my kids and they have liked them each time I read them.

[quiverfull]

I'm new to HOD, so I don't even know if I should be giving any advice I started Bigger and Preparing a few weeks ago. I purposely placed my daughter in Preparing instead of CTC (even though she could've placed there), because I knew she would be able to do most of it independently. This makes a huge difference, as I spend a lot of time doing Bigger with my son. My older children are also in guides they can do independently, and our days are much more enjoyable this way. I'd try to have one of them in a guide they can do 80 percent by themselves.