Long Days and Son Hates School

[momto2boys]

This is our second year homeschooling and using HOD.. I am using BHFHG and PHFHG right now for my 8 & almost 10 yr.old. They both seem to be placed correctly. Our days are lasting 6-8 hours and sometimes we don't finish it all in that time. We don't go by a schedule because my husbands work schedule changes daily and I work 2 days a week out of the home for 12 hours. We like that we can adjust our day so that we can have family time, but school is taking twice as long as last year.
My youngest has started"hating"school and has shed lots of tears over
it . This isn't the way I want it to be. He likes the science and history and loves reading and storytime. He does okay with math some days but has complete meltdowns if word problems are involved, but he is about a half a year ahead on math. Language arts is a complete struggle. He constantly says that he doesn't get it and really struggles with spelling. Getting him to sound out a word is like pulling teeth. I have thought about trying a different curriculum for those subjects. Any advice?

[StillJulie]

All About Reading and All About Spelling have helped my 10 year old progress significantly this year in his reading and spelling. He is still behind grade level, but things are a lot better. They can be time consuming, and he is already starting to get a little burned out on them. Also, they're pricey.

Just thought I'd throw it out there b/c I do believe they're quality, sound, thorough programs.

[psreit]

It sounds like maybe you should go half speed for a while, if it is taking that long. I am doing 3 days of Preparing a week. I am finding that to be a good fit, if I am home all week. This week we took a day off, because dd was getting her braces off. So, we are only getting two days done this week.

I'm not sure what to recommend for language arts. Did your ds8 do phonics and read the ER books? If he is reading the ER books and they are getting too difficult, maybe you should take a break from them and get easier readers for a while. Some will also continue to use some phonics reinforcement workbooks, like Bob books or Explode the Code. These are just some ideas. I had to take a break from the ERs last year because the words were getting too hard for my dd. Now we are back in them and she is doing okay with the later ones. As for the spelling, my dd is very weak in that area as well. I tried different programs, but I'm persuaded now that reading and writing is the best way for her to learn to spell.

[my3sons]

This is our second year homeschooling and using HOD.. I am using BHFHG and PHFHG right now for my 8 & almost 10 yr.old. They both seem to be placed correctly. Our days are lasting 6-8 hours and sometimes we don't finish it all in that time. We don't go by a schedule because my husbands work schedule changes daily and I work 2 days a week out of the home for 12 hours. We like that we can adjust our day so that we can have family time, but school is taking twice as long as last year.
My youngest has started"hating"school and has shed lots of tears over
it . This isn't the way I want it to be. He likes the science and history and loves reading and storytime. He does okay with math some days but has complete meltdowns if word problems are involved, but he is about a half a year ahead on math. Language arts is a complete struggle. He constantly says that he doesn't get it and really struggles with spelling. Getting him to sound out a word is like pulling teeth. I have thought about trying a different curriculum for those subjects. Any advice?

Oh dear! 6-8 hours a day for these two guides is taking way toooooooo long! Here are the approximate allotted times for each of these guides, which we found to be right on track for all of our sons so far...
PHFHG time it takes:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4244&p=31219#p31219

Beyond time it takes:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=162
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4390&p=32417

I'd keep track of how much time each box of plans is taking by jotting it down, and then you can see where things are going long. Usually, long days are either the result of improper placement or lack of consistent routine and lengthy transitions. For math, if he is having a meltdown and is half a year ahead, I'd slow math down. It's too much if he's reduced to tears, and as he is ahead, why not just slow it down? For LA, what is he not getting? What is he sounding out for spelling that is so difficult? I guess - what exactly is he doing for HOD choices in LA? Thanks!!!

In Christ,
Julie

[Carrie]

momto2boys,

Oh my! 6-8 hours a day is a definite red flag for the guides that you mentioned. So, we need to do some trouble-shooting to figure out where the problems might be.

First off, I need to clarify whether you are doing Beyond and Preparing or Bigger and Preparing? Doing both Bigger and Preparing at the same time can be pretty exhausting for the parent, as both are pretty intensive teacher guides (since the kiddos aren't very independent at that stage). We typically don't expect you to do those two guides at the same time, because if your kiddos are close enough in age to be in those two guides it is often possible they can be combined in the lower guide (adding the extensions for the older child). However, even in the scenario where you are teaching both Bigger and Preparing, the teacher time with all subjects considered would be 2.5 up to 3 hours for Bigger and 3 hours up to 4 hours at the max for Preparing. Adding those times together back-to-back (if you didn't overlap any teaching time at all) would equal 5.5 up to 7 hours max. However that would only be for the teacher not for the students, and most teachers do overlap teaching time in quite a few areas (doing more than one kiddos' subjects at once to save time). For example, to save time you'd do both maths in one time slot, teaching and being available to help both kiddos at one time (even if they are on differing levels). The students though would still be done in the times I've listed above for both guides (meaning the Bigger Hearts child would only school 2.5 to 3 hours a day and the Preparing Hearts child would only school 3-4 hours a day). So, to clarify, how long is each child actually working on his/her guide each day? How long are you teaching each day?

Next, we need to make sure that the building blocks to do well with a guide are in place. With this in mind, can you share which HOD guide or guides you did last year? Did you get through all of that guide or those guides? If not, how far did you get? What did each of your kiddos do for English, spelling, reading, and math last year? The answers to these questions will make a big difference for how well your kiddos perform this year. If you can share the answers to these questions, we can begin problem-solving in each area (figuring out where the issues are and what to do about them).

Take heart that we can work together to solve the time problems you are having! Your days do not need to be so long. We look forward to hearing back from you as time allows, and then we'll work from there!

I'll link this thread too that may be of help: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12776&p=91841

Blessings,
Carrie

[Nealewill]

I also work from home anywhere from 20 to 40+ hours a week. I know how hard this can be.

I personally have found that as my kids get older, I do have to schedule my day. I know that might not be something you want to do and that you value family time. But I have found I need to have school for my kids at their best times of the day as well. For example, my kids work best in the morning so I can't wait till after dinner and then expect them to have a good attitude during a learning session. I also have gotten to the point that my kids have set bed times (9:30 PM) and that they get up every day by the same time (7:30 AM). As my kids have gotten older, school has gotten to be more so - more in volume, more in difficulty, more in activities, just more so in general. So without a schedule, everyone suffers - including me and my husband and the kids as well.

I have found that by scheduling my day better, that we get done much sooner and everyone has a much better attitude during learning time. In addition, my oldest who is in Preparing can complete the work independently. That is a life saver right there. If your children are correctly placed, are you finding it difficult for your son to do the items independently? If so, then you may want to go half speed until he gets it. I have found that my dd is doing almost all of the items very independently or with minimal help from me - even the writing assignments go well for her. So this shows me all the more she can perform the volume of work. Also, if the reading is too much, then I would set a timer and see what gets done. Then you can slow down for a short period of time if you need to so that your son can finish the independent items independently. I also don't know how your school stuff is organized but my dd has access to the manual, pencils, papers and the books she is working on all on her desk. So she can go sit down, open the book, and then get stuff done. I also gave her a tentative daily schedule and I meet with her daily to go over each box she is to do independently and we talk about the order she will do them in. That seemed to help a ton!

As for you the younger child, I would also schedule that too. I have done that and it helps me stay on task.

And as for your husbands schedule and his times changing and stuff, I would honestly ask him to help if he is home. My husband helps me for 30+ minutes a day with school. For us, he does Bible with the kids every morning before he leaves for work. Once I separate my younger 2 kids (thinking about LHFHG and BHFHG next year), then my husband has agreed to do the history and science readings to one of them each day. That will save me a full 30 minutes+ per day. If he has time, he will continue to do Bible with one child. And he will rotate the child he works with each day. My oldest will be in CTC next year so I am going to work with her in all areas. But for us, since I work so much from home, I need his help probably more than other moms. And we agreed that if I was going homeschool the kids and work, then he had to help some. Since he can't really "teach" the kids, he can read and this is huge. And this just what works for us.

The last thing I was going mention is that the timer has become my best friend! I set that thing for my oldest all the time. Each day I write the number of minutes each task should take in the boxes that are marked with an "I" so that she knows how long to set the time. Some stuff is fast, some not. But she knows how long something should take. It does seem that most days are fairly balanced so if science is going to take 1 hour one day (like on experiment days - I know that no matter what she does, she is taking an hour), then the time line items usually don't take more than 10 minutes for her. Also, it is usually lighter in the Independent History box that day so we shave time off of our day there too. I have also found we will use the 5th day if we need to but rarely have gone to that. But on days that I know I have meetings, I will try and shift writing assignments if I need to. I will not schedule a poetry writing activity on the same day that I am overwhelmingly busy. I also try to be sure that the history written narration writing assignment from Preparing that is on day 4 is also not on a day that I have a meeting. I try not to have too many meetings but sometimes it just happens.

But I will say - my number one that has helped me truly is having a schedule and sticking with it. Everyone loves the "order" to our day and they have so much more time to play. And I don't know that anyone would actually come up and say - thanks for scheduling my day mom - but I have seen such a huge change in my family's attitudes and how smooth our day is that I know this is the prime reason.

[momto2boys]

[quote

For LA, what is he not getting? What is he sounding out for spelling that is so difficult? I guess - what exactly is he doing for HOD choices in LA?

="psreit"]I'm not sure what to recommend for language arts. Did your ds8 do phonics and read the ER books? quote]

Yes, he did phonics and the ER books. He actually enjoys reading, it's the Preparing to Build and spelling that he doesn't like.

For LA, what is he not getting? What is he sounding out for spelling that is so difficult? I guess - what exactly is he doing for HOD choices in LA? Thanks!!!

He spells exactly like it sounds. I know that he knows that certain letter combinations make certain sounds and he did great with phonics, but when he is
asked to spell it's like he doesn't have a clue! We are repeating the 2nd spelling list from last year in Beyond because I felt like he didn't have them down well enough. This year if he spells the words easily with no trouble the first time, we go on to the next list if not we are staying with that list until he gets it. Then, he will do well when we quiz him and he will have to write that same word in a sentence and he has no clue how to spell it even though he spelled it during spelling. I've tried explaining that it is the same word and he usually has a melt down. We do all of the excercises listed in HOD for spelling and I will put the words in an online spelling game and do that also, hoping it might help it stick if it's fun for him.
For language arts, I really think it's because he doesn't like writing and that he has trouble spelling words. I think he has it all down and we will get to the review and he doesn't know what any of the answers are. We just finished unit 5 and he had the pictures of Noah's Ark to write sentences about. He kept saying " I don't get it." He knows the Bible well and knows that story, I wound up having to sit with him and go through each picture and saying "What is that?" "What kind of sentence could you write for that?"
He does seem to do better if I stay beside him the entire time he is working and hold his hand and walk him through it which doesn't work well when you are working with another child of course.

I need to clarify whether you are doing Beyond and Preparing or Bigger and Preparing?

We are doing Bigger and Preparing.I didn't read until after we had started that those were hard together. But, since we did Beyond and Bigger lsat year, that's where we were.

For example, to save time you'd do both maths in one time slot, teaching and being available to help both kiddos at one time (even if they are on differing levels).

I haven't thought about doing that, that helps. Thanks!

So, to clarify, how long is each child actually working on his/her guide each day? How long are you teaching each day?

It depends on the day. The other day when we were doing Unit5 Day5 of Bigger which is usually a quick day for us, it took us 4 hrs to complete Preparing to build. I kept having to make him redo stuff and straighten attitudes, etc.

Next, we need to make sure that the building blocks to do well with a guide are in place. With this in mind, can you share which HOD guide or guides you did last year? Did you get through all of that guide or those guides? If not, how far did you get? What did each of your kiddos do for English, spelling, reading, and math last year?

We did Bigger and Beyond last year and I think we completed up to level 28, we finished the rest of the guides at the beginning of this year. We are currently on Unit 6 of Bigger and Unit 7 of Preparing. Last year was our first year homeschooling and they were in public school before that. My oldest started in private school and I can tell a big difference in what he learned and what my youngest did, unfortunately. I have thought about putting a hold on math and LA and going backwards and reteaching him the basics again with math and doing a lot of reading/storytime for LA. He still counts with his fingers, even with simple math problems. He loves reading and I don't want him to lose that. I almost feel like we to "un-school" him from what he learned in public school and re-teach him how to love learning.

My husband is a big help when he his home, he actually does school one of the days that I work(his only day off a week) and then we do Saturdays to make up the other while he is working. He works a lot of hours and isn't home a lot right now. We have started spreading out Preparing over 5 days lately which has helped a little.

A side note, my youngest has a GI disorder caused by a food allergy. At times, I wonder if the emotional outbursts and crying because he can't do something is coming from that. He is in remission, but still feels left out a lot because of what he can't eat with other kids.

Thank you all so much for your comments and suggestions! I know I have a rambled on, but I really want our days to be happy and not with everyone upset. I try to keep a happy Christian home and I feel like I'm failing when I have one constantly in tears.

Blessings,
Nicole

[LynnH]

So if I am understanding you right it took you 4 hours to do the Rod and Staff Grammar book Preparing to Build? You said he kept having to correct things and that he hates writing. Are you having him do 2/3rds of it orally? Carrie recommends this all the way up through the levels. Do it with you writing on the white board or just orally and pick only 1 exercise for him to do written. It sounds like that might help. It really should only take 15-20 minutes at that level.

[TrueGRIT]

Last year with "Preparing to Build" for a few weeks, not only did we have to do most orally- we also had to spread 1 lesson out over 2 days. A few weeks was all it took - it helped him get a better attitude about it because instead of taking 2-3 hours for a lesson it only took 45 min to 1 hr.
We had to do the same thing for "Beginning Wisely", but was able to get back on track in a shorter time.
English now takes us 30-45 min. He is mildly dyslexic & I suspect has dysgraphia - writing is horrible for him. It can be totally overwhelming, but with stepping back and a new way of doing things it is much improved.
We do English in a time with just the 2 of us, because he can't do even the small written part without me.
We do spelling really slowly as well. He gets easily frustrated with that other wise.

It does seem as though most of the problems are over LA.
You are probably already doing this but,
A schedule based on routine & a timer is more effective than one based on a set time to start. At least for "problem" subjects.
Hope this gives you an idea of your own. Best wishes and prayers for a good answer.

[momto2boys]

So if I am understanding you right it took you 4 hours to do the Rod and Staff Grammar book Preparing to Build? You said he kept having to correct things and that he hates writing. Are you having him do 2/3rds of it orally? Carrie recommends this all the way up through the levels. Do it with you writing on the white board or just orally and pick only 1 exercise for him to do written. It sounds like that might help. It really should only take 15-20 minutes at that level.

That helps so much! I think I really need to get out of my public school way of thinking! I always think that they need to do it the way it is written. He loves to write on the white board and begs to do it. He fusses when I hand him paper. You all are such a blessing!! I'm learning and we will get there eventually!!

[momto2boys]

Last year with "Preparing to Build" for a few weeks, not only did we have to do most orally- we also had to spread 1 lesson out over 2 days. A few weeks was all it took - it helped him get a better attitude about it because instead of taking 2-3 hours for a lesson it only took 45 min to 1 hr.
We had to do the same thing for "Beginning Wisely", but was able to get back on track in a shorter time.
English now takes us 30-45 min. He is mildly dyslexic & I suspect has dysgraphia - writing is horrible for him. It can be totally overwhelming, but with stepping back and a new way of doing things it is much improved.
We do English in a time with just the 2 of us, because he can't do even the small written part without me.
We do spelling really slowly as well. He gets easily frustrated with that other wise.

It does seem as though most of the problems are over LA.
You are probably already doing this but,
A schedule based on routine & a timer is more effective than one based on a set time to start. At least for "problem" subjects.
Hope this gives you an idea of your own. Best wishes and prayers for a good answer.

I am going to make a schedule and try using the timer! I talked to the school psychologist last week because our pediatrician wanted us to get him tested for Dyslexia. I don't think he has it and neither did the school psychologist, she did say that a laguage barrier might be a possibility and to keep an eye on him. He reads well as long as he goes slow and doesn't rush. She also said that he seems to get overwhelmed if there is a lot on the page to do. So, I am going to try to start covering up the problems that he is not working on at the time and see if that helps. Thanks for the prayers!

[my3sons]

Thank you so much for sharing more about your day! That really does help us partner with you in thinking through this. You already made a good discovery by paying attention to which things are taking too much time in the day. Often times, as moms, we feel like everything is going long, when really it's probably just a few things. This is good news! Changing those few things can have a BIG impact then - hooray!

So, just as a recap, here are the times for BHFHG...
Cursive = 5-7 minutes
Drawn into the Heart of Reading 20-30 min. total (including reading time - we only read one chapter a session)
Math = 20 minutes
Reading About History Box (8-10 min.), Bible Study Box (5- 10 min.), and Bottom left corner box of "Learning Through History" (15 min.) done in one sitting totaling 35 min. (Note: Art days take a little longer.)
Dictation (5 min.), Poetry (5-10 min.), Rod and Staff English (10-15 min.), and Storytime (15 min.- We read aloud only one chapter a day. Some moms do more!) done in one sitting totaling 35 min.
Hymns at lunch (5-10 min.)
Science (after lunch - 15-35 min.- depending on whether there's an experiment or a notebooking entry or just oral narration)

So, R & S English should take around 10-15 minutes. By using HOD's ideas to do most of the lesson orally, reserving one small section to be written, and using a markerboard as needed, you'll see time melt away!

He spells exactly like it sounds. I know that he knows that certain letter combinations make certain sounds and he did great with phonics, but when he is
asked to spell it's like he doesn't have a clue! We are repeating the 2nd spelling list from last year in Beyond because I felt like he didn't have them down well enough. This year if he spells the words easily with no trouble the first time, we go on to the next list if not we are staying with that list until he gets it. Then, he will do well when we quiz him and he will have to write that same word in a sentence and he has no clue how to spell it even though he spelled it during spelling. I've tried explaining that it is the same word and he usually has a melt down. We do all of the excercises listed in HOD for spelling and I will put the words in an online spelling game and do that also, hoping it might help it stick if it's fun for him.
For language arts, I really think it's because he doesn't like writing and that he has trouble spelling words. I think he has it all down and we will get to the review and he doesn't know what any of the answers are. We just finished unit 5 and he had the pictures of Noah's Ark to write sentences about. He kept saying " I don't get it." He knows the Bible well and knows that story, I wound up having to sit with him and go through each picture and saying "What is that?" "What kind of sentence could you write for that?"
He does seem to do better if I stay beside him the entire time he is working and hold his hand and walk him through it which doesn't work well when you are working with another child of course.

As far as the spelling, mastery is not needed to move on to the next level. Dc will misspell words that they spelled correctly earlier from time to time. This is alright! Spelling words correctly is something dc take on gradually more and more, and accuracy continues to improve as they move through the levels of dictation. Here is a recap of how spelling goes in HOD...
Day 1: teacher shows student word written in black on index card, when student says he's ready, card is taken away, and student writes word in black on markerboard; if student misses word, teacher erases word, shows card again, when student says he's ready, card is taken away, and student writes word in black on markerboard
Day 2: teacher says word and uses word in sentence, student tries to write it on markerboard, if student misses word, teacher shows card, takes card away, and has student rewrite it correctly on markerboard; teacher moves on to next word until through all words and then does the whole sequence one more time with each word
Day 4: repeat Day's 2's exercise, only for each missed word do fun large gross motor activity to practice words missed (i.e. jumping in place to spell word out loud)

You'll notice that there is not a quiz involved, nor are there more than 10 words dc are expected to be responsible for. So, by simply following these plans using Spelling List 2's words only, you will find spelling again becomes fun, shorter, and ds will be more able to focus on just his 10 words each week without the pressure of a quiz. Next year, he needs to move on to Dictation Level 2. I know this is not the traditional way of doing spelling, but that is intentional. Here are some past posts that may be helpful in explaining this...
CM Style Spelling in HOD (why do it, describes spelling plans too):
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5645&p=41357#p41357

Spelling retention – why not to pretest by Carrie:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7415&p=54282#p54282

Why HOD does spelling lists before dictation, by Carrie:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10388

So, by doing spelling the HOD way, you will find time falls off the day this way too! Hooray! Take heart - my oldest ds was NOT a good speller when he did his HOD spelling lists. Several years of speech therapy early on in life let me know spelling would probably be a challenge for him. Now he is in high school, having just completed Level 8 of HOD's dictation passages, and he rarely misspells anything! This will be your ds's story too if you just keep up with HOD's spelling/dictation progression.

As far as math goes, I am not clear what he did for math last year, and what he is doing for math this year. Could you please share when you get the chance? That would be so helpful as proper placement can probably then be determined, which also impacts the expected level of mastery of facts and story problems, as well as the amount of hands-on work intended. Thanks!!!

The role we play as teachers is sometimes hazy. We're used to what we had in ps, which was one teacher to 20+ students. Homeschooling is different - which is wonderful! Dc have access to immediate feedback and help from their teacher, and as such, their school day should be significantly shorter. The role of the homeschool teacher changes through the years, from guide to guide within HOD. I consider BHFHG as one of my most important teaching years. There is not much intended independence in that guide. In other words, I've found I need to be right near my dc's side, helping them as needed, and keeping them moving along so that they are finishing successfully for most of the guide. It is not until PHFHG that guides are labeled with "I" independent boxes and "S" semi-independent boxes. That is because at the BHFHG level of skills, work is not intended to be largely independent. If boxes were labeled in BHFHG, "T" would be the predominant letter in the corners of each box. So, you can feel just fine staying by your child's side and helping him finish his R & S English in 10-15 minutes, as opposed to teaching a portion, walking away, and leaving him to finish on his own. Sometimes, by the last third of the guide, dc take on a little more independence successfully, but that is only due to the previous 2/3 of the guide's training, and even then, there is not a whole lot of independence in BHFHG. Skills will come around again, and when they do, they'll be intended to be more semi-independent, and then after one more go-around, they'll be intended to be more independent. This usually happens over the course of years, from guide guide, rather than within 1 year in 1 guide. So, this takes the pressure off of total mastery this year, and lets you know going back to reteach things like spelling, math, etc. is not necessary, because total mastery is not expected. It is planned for you to be partnering with your child this year.

PHFHG is another story! You can see the boxes are labeled, and 1/3 of them are "I" independent boxes, about 1/3 of them are "S" semi-independent, and about 1/3 of them are "T" teacher-directed. So, in this guide your role as a teacher changes, as does the student's role. Of course, even those "I" boxes and "S" boxes have to be introduced and taught at first. But then, usually after a month or so, we have found they truly are able to be completed quite solo by the student.

So, having dc in both BHFHG and PHFHG, it may be wise to go half-speed in BHFHG. I am wondering if ds in BHFHG is doing "Drawn into the Heart of Reading" for his reading instruction? This will surely put the love of reading back into his heart, as well as give you a subject your two sons can partner in doing. Going half-speed in BHFHG along with full-speed DITHOR 2/3 may be just the right balance for ds. For PHFHG ds, it sounds like things are going well, so continuing full-speed would be fine. Then, the following year, ds can finish out BHFHG, and older ds can be on to CTC. This will put a guide between them, which is nice for mom too.

One last thing touched upon that is a fantastic idea is teaching math at the same time to the 2 of them. Just because we are teaching multiple guides, we need not teach all one guide, then teach all the next guide, and so on. If I did that with the 3 guides I'm teaching, I'd be teaching FOREVER! And I work part-time too, so that is not an option. Having teaching blocks and independent blocks of time has helped me schedule my day. Here some past schedules of mine that have some of the guides you are using, just so you can see what I'm trying to describe here...
PHFHG...


Half-speed BHFHG...


Full-speed BHFHG...


I hope something can help here - but HUGS to you and know - you have the power to change all this and are entitled to joyful homeschooling days! Don't let previous ps experiences drive what homeschooling needs to look like in your home. It's not working all that well in the ps realm - there is no need to try to recreate that setting at home. I am excited for you to make a few changes and see how your day can be different! I think you will find your groove and be enjoying your homeschooling then in no time. God bless!

In Christ,
Julie

[Carrie]

momto2boys,

I am so glad that we are getting a chance to talk through some things that may be of help to you as you ponder how to shorten your day. Often just having someone who has "been there" and "done that" to talk to can really help! That is why I am so glad for this board of wonderful women who love to help one another.

I know you already have much to ponder in this thread, but I'll add a few more things for you to mull over as possibilities. First, since it sounds like writing is a bit of a struggle for your younger one (as it was for my third little guy too), I would definitely advise slowing Bigger down to half- speed for now (and maybe for the rest of the year). I'll post my own half-speed schedule that I used for my little writing challenged child. I will also share that after half-speed Bigger for half of a year, he went on to do full-speed Preparing and is doing well with full-speed CTC right now too. Often those little boys just need a bit of time to strengthen those writing muscles. Half-speed Bigger schedule (ignore the posts about half-speed Beyond in the thread, and just find the half-speed Bigger at the end). viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5431

Next, I would make sure to do as the ladies are suggesting and make sure to be right by your little honey's side for his most difficult subjects. I would sit by him for English and math and any copywork. This means that you would read aloud the English lesson to him from the Rod and Staff book. You would ask him each of the oral part and have him answer orally (no writing needed for either of you usually, and if writing is needed do it on the markerboard). Next, assign one part to be done on paper (or on the markerboard). Sit by him while he works and redirect him as needed. Do not allow any long pauses, making a goal to get it done quickly and painlessly. The whole lesson should not exceed 15 min. at this stage. While you are sitting with him and watching him do his English lesson, you could be whispering a dictation passage to your other son nearby. Or, you could be checking any work your older son has done up to that point in the day. Or, you could briefly move your older child onto his next subject and pop back and sit down next to your younger son again helping him stay on task and finish. I am continually flitting around checking on my kiddos.

For spelling, definitely do it the way it is in the guide with no additions. If you feel he is ready for writing words in sentences, then he is ready for studied dictation. If he is still working on words individually, then keep going with List 2, but don't add to the program as written. Keep it short and sweet!

For math, sit by your younger son and help him as he goes. It will go better if you are there. Same is true for your older son. So, make math a round table time. Everybody must speak in a whisper or very quiet voice. Have them sit at opposite ends of the table to get a little space between your kiddos. Or, have your oldest sit further away and come and show you his work every 5 problems or so (so you can be sure he is on track). Getting math and your language arts down to a manageable amount of time each day will change your life! Math should be 20-25 min. for your younger son and up to 30 min. at the most for your older son. Adding or changing program for language arts and math will only add time to your already full day. If you are already using programs other than what we recommend for language arts or math, try to get your times down for those subjects to those that are listed in this thread.

For your older child, I would consider slowing Preparing down for a time too. This would be to make sure that he is doing each subject well and also that DITHR is included in the day too for reading instruction. Here is a link to a possible Preparing Hearts slow down. Link: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5431

Honestly, doing the guide slowly but very well has its merits, especially if your kiddos are struggling in some of the basic skills. Simply slowing the guide down and allowing the kiddos to do less better can be a godsend as they solidify their skills. I would probably do the slow down for the last half of the year. Usually, after 4-5 months of slow down (making sure to do everything in the guide), kiddos will be ready for full-speed and thrive.



Blessings,
Carrie

[momto2boys]

As far as math goes, I am not clear what he did for math last year, and what he is doing for math this year. Could you please share when you get the chance? That would be so helpful as proper placement can probably then be determined, which also impacts the expected level of mastery of facts and story problems, as well as the amount of hands-on work intended.

He did 1A/1B and part of 2A last year. We went through some of it quickly because he was doing well with it at the beginning and had learned some of it in public school. He actually loves math if he "gets" it and will keep doing pages if I don't catch him and stop him first. But, if he doesn't understand the concept or if he has word problems it's all tears. He is having a hard time with division. I have tried giving him index cards and legos to use to divide out the correct number but he still gets very frustrated with it. He also still uses his fingers to count out simple math problems. We are almost done with 2A, I think we have about 10 pages left. My older son is on 3A. He does okay, I would like him to be able to blurt out some answers without sitting and thinking about it or counting them out first.

I think I was worried that we wouldn't be getting enough school time in if I slowed them down, but I see where it can be very beneficial.
I tried the timer today and started trying to make a schedule. We only did half a day because we had a church activity to go to. R&S took 30 min. each, definitely an improvement, they were both on reviews today also. We will have to keep working on it to see if we can get our times better.

I am definitely going to put all of this advice to use! I truly appreciate all of your help!!! I feel very hopeful now!

[Nealewill]

]

He did 1A/1B and part of 2A last year. We went through some of it quickly because he was doing well with it at the beginning and had learned some of it in public school. He actually loves math if he "gets" it and will keep doing pages if I don't catch him and stop him first. But, if he doesn't understand the concept or if he has word problems it's all tears. He is having a hard time with division. I have tried giving him index cards and legos to use to divide out the correct number but he still gets very frustrated with it. He also still uses his fingers to count out simple math problems. We are almost done with 2A, I think we have about 10 pages left. My older son is on 3A. He does okay, I would like him to be able to blurt out some answers without sitting and thinking about it or counting them out first.

Not sure if you have an iPad or iPhone but last summer my oldest dd STRUGGLED with multiplication of 2 digit numbers. She just could not get that you had to annex a zero (or zeros) when you multiplied by tens and up. I was practically in tears because I could feel her frustration. Then I found a couple of iPad apps that went through the whole concept. She watch the video and then there were some sample problems. After about a week or 2 of this, she finally go it. Praise God for apps! Just a thought. Also, if your son is struggling with facts, there are apps for that too. There are some nice free ones. They will play these apps to keep fresh on their facts sometimes. Especially for about 6 weeks between the end of May and beginning of July - we school all year but take these 6 weeks off - my kids are required to play one of the math apps on the iPad for 20 minutes a day 4 days a week. I also require reading each day during that break - 30 minutes for my oldest and 20 for the two younger kids. I hate when they forget everything they learned over the summer break. While I wouldn't say that my kids would necessarily choose to play learning games if given the option, they do seem to genuinely like the games I have downloaded and play them cheerfully.