New to HOD and want to combine children

[Tooactiveboys]

Hi,
Let me first introduce my boys (13 months apart) and myself. Then I will ask my question(s).
I started homeschooling in August of this year. I have taken the eclectic approach until we figured out what we were doing. We have been using Singapore Math (SM), Handwriting without Tears (HWT), Explode the Code (ETC), Apologia flying creatures (we started with bugs - what boy can resist that!). We have fun finding bugs, naming their parts and drawing them in our science notebook. Misc read alouds that friends have recommended or that I saw at convention. The boys do love story time, so that is a blessing.

DS #1 is 5yo (6 in March). Solid student, natural drive to finish his work, natural aptitude is Math, frustration is fine motor skills i.e. Handwritting. He has been assessed by OT, we go back next week for results of eval and instructions for what we can do. He is reading Bob Books, and almost done with ETC book 1. Finishing SM Kindergarten B.

DS #2 is a little over 4.5 yo (5 end of April). Brilliant, hard to focus (if he applied himself he would be amazing, but at 4.5 I'll cut him some slack ). Natural aptitude is reading. For example he taught himself all upper and lower case letters and sounds by 18 mo old (refrigerator magnets), started teaching himself to read at 2.5! My friend is a reading teacher and based on her advice I have not pushed him with reading for fear that he would not like it. He is now also on ETC book 1 and reading Bob Books. His handwriting is great for his age. Math he is good, 1/3 of the way into SM KB.

Myself: I work outside the home part time. My schedule is such that I have M-Th am clear and we do a 4 day school week. So far, I do not use Saturday as a catch-up day, we just pick up where we were on Monday. They have sitters with them M-W afternoons. The sitters are charged with "wearing them out" and feeding them dinner. So they go to the park a lot. My own school interests are history, reading and science. I love them! Math, spelling... not so much - but that is our secret, I have not let on to the boys!

So, I have been researching different curriculums. I really have decided I am a Charlotte Mason fan and HOD fits great with that. I have looked at Sonlight, but I am not keen of some of the topics introduced at an early age. I like starting with Am Hx and looking at character traits. I am trying to decide what to start them in and I want to do one level for both boys. I am strongly leaning toward "Beyond" for both. The reason I am drawn to this is I love the teaching examples for SM that are in the example week. I think in 6-8 weeks we will be starting SM 1 (at least with DS#1). At that time I would start the left hand side of the page for both kids. The right hand side we would still use ETC, HWT, SM.

? #1 Since DS #2 is moving through math at his own pace, I would just have to flip back to whichever lesson he is on for the SM teaching examples? Right. otherwise they would still be "on the same page"

?#2 Since DS #1 is cognitively able to do Beyond, but his handwriting is the frustration, I am concerned as I have seen many people post about the amount of copy work. Can I shorten his requirements so he does not get to the point of frustration without loosing much of the context of the curriculum? My flip side thought about this is that it could help strengthen his handwriting. (he has been improving lately).

?#3 Am I crazy considering placing them both in Beyond?

?#4 Can the curriculum be done on a 4 day schedule or should I plan on adding Saturday morning?

?#5 currently we spend 2 to 2.5 hours, including **lots** of "movement breaks" (different from Free Play time). Will this time frame continue to work?

?#6 Something I have not done very well these last few months is "calendar time". Any suggestions for that. I find it tedious so I just stopped doing it. I need to get back at it, esp since it is January, learning the months/seasons seems like a good time to start.

? #7 How do I know when you transition from phonics to emerging reader? I know we are still at the phonic phase now, but looking the the Drawn to reading plan, looks great!

Thank you for your time,
Any responses would be helpful for me in making my decision
Becky
PS I did read the locked section on most common questions and that does help since they are closely matched in ability.

[Tidbits of Learning]

My oldest 3 kids are all a year apart each and while they both had their strengths and their weaknesses...I wouldn't have combined them in younger years in the higher guide. I would have went with the lower guide. Are you doing Singapore Essentials Math? It is a different feel than the Singapore Standards K. If you aren't using essentials, I would recommend combining in LHFHG and using Essentials with your younger and buying the Beyond guide for Math with your older. You would only use Beyond for Math for your older and maybe spelling or emerging readers if your older was ready.

? #1 Since DS #2 is moving through math at his own pace, I would just have to flip back to whichever lesson he is on for the SM teaching examples? Right. otherwise they would still be "on the same page"
Yes, if he is at a different pace with math you can just put a sticky note to keep place of where he is in the guide instructions with math.

?#2 Since DS #1 is cognitively able to do Beyond, but his handwriting is the frustration, I am concerned as I have seen many people post about the amount of copy work. Can I shorten his requirements so he does not get to the point of frustration without loosing much of the context of the curriculum? My flip side thought about this is that it could help strengthen his handwriting. (he has been improving lately).
I think he would hit a bump when you got to Bigger the next year if you shorten requirements in Beyond. HOD is about skill building so if your ds isn't ready for the copywork skills in Beyond and you shorten or eliminate them, then when you get to Bigger you will have to do the same to some skills. LHFHG goes through narration a little with the storytime and there isn't copywork but a handwriting book. The fine motor skills activities and books will help a lot. You can continue HWOT for the handwriting books. We love HWOT. For the time frame you need for working as well as the ages of your boys and the motor skills/handwriting, I would really think LHFHG would work better than Beyond to combine b/c Bigger is a big step up from Beyond and I think you would hit a bump in the road even if you made it through Beyond with both of them this year.

?#3 Am I crazy considering placing them both in Beyond?
I wouldn't place an almost 5 and almost 6 year old in Beyond. I have done the first 3 guides with kids of varying ages and those first few years are the hardest to combine without losing someone along the way b/c so much of kindergarten through 2nd grade is the foundations of learning skills. From your descriptions, I would think they both placed in LHFHG on the placement chart.

?#4 Can the curriculum be done on a 4 day schedule or should I plan on adding Saturday morning?
Yes, it can be done 4 days a week. You would just keep doing the next day of lesson plans in the guide. It would just take 42 weeks to finish the 5 day guides that way. This would work better for your younger one as well to grow into the age range of the guides.

?#5 currently we spend 2 to 2.5 hours, including **lots** of "movement breaks" (different from Free Play time). Will this time frame continue to work?
Yes.

?#6 Something I have not done very well these last few months is "calendar time". Any suggestions for that. I find it tedious so I just stopped doing it. I need to get back at it, esp since it is January, learning the months/seasons seems like a good time to start.
Quite a few blogs have calendar notebooks. If you google, you should be able to find them. We can't put links for other things on the board, but search Mama Jenn and also Confessions of a Homeschooler's blog.

? #7 How do I know when you transition from phonics to emerging reader? I know we are still at the phonic phase now, but looking the the Drawn to reading plan, looks great!

With phonics, we began the emerging readers after finishing The Reading Lesson. I would think when they are reading level 1 books with few mistakes that you could give the emerging readers a try. They get progressively harder as the year goes.

Having done HOD with LHFHG, BLHFHG, BHFHG, about to start PHFHG, CTC, and about to start Rev to Rev., I would really suggest combining with regards to the younger student's placement and beefing up for your older. Starting in Bigger, there are extensions for older students. It makes life easy to combine. I don't think a 5 year old would do well starting in Beyond long term. It is a great 1st or 2nd grade, but I wouldn't use it for kindergarten.
Have you looked at the placement chart? http://www.heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php...where does your 4.5 yr old place according to the placement chart. From your description, I would think he would place in LHFHG. With your description of your ds (5 almost 6), I would opt for LHFHG so that you get the fine motor skills books and activities as well as working on handwriting further. If you like the Apologia, continue it. Science is very light in the younger guides and if you have science loving guys that would be my only suggestion.

[Tooactiveboys]

Thank you that does make a lot of sense. I never thought about combining at the lower one and getting the beyond guide for SM.
Ok soooo here is my gut impression, I need help knowing if it is accurate or not since it is based on a 1 week view of the guide. My only reservation left with LHFHG is that it seems so simple. The one week example is something we have done many times. I wish I could see a mid year example and an end of year example. That way I would see the progress through the year. I know the need to start simply then move forward, I just want to be sure we r moving:)

[StephanieU]

My daughter (just turned 6 in December) sounds like your oldest. She COULD have done Beyond this year, but I decided to wait. Her handwriting wasn't great, and I didn't want to push too hard. I looked at the later guides and the sequencing of things, and a light bulb hit when I realized LHFHG was actually the 1st grade guide if you do 1 guide a year. I was worried it would be too simple, but she loves it. There are times she wishes for more science or art, but I can always supplement that. The Rod and Staff fine motor skills books are so fun for her. They include a good amount of science with daily life skills as well. The history, although it seems simple, really cements the ideas in their heads. And with boys, the read alouds in LHFHG might even be a stretch in the beginning (they were with my daughter). Although they are great stories, they have less than 10 pictures in the whole book. So, many days there is about 3-5 minutes of reading with no pictures.

One of the things I love most about HOD is that you can move at your own speed in math and language arts. The history side is totally separate from these, which is great when combining or dealing with an academically advanced child. You can continue at the same speed on these without worrying about moving too far ahead in history where maturity is key. I would say LHFHG would be great with the Beyond guide added for math and possibly some LA as desired (emerging readers, spelling, and simple grammar).

As far as does it get harder, the left side doesn't change too much in organization. The storytime box gradually has them do more advanced narration-type things, but the history is about the same until you complete the Bible portion (week 18). Then it changes as you move to US history. We are about to start that section, and it looks like it will be a good gentle bump up in skills, similar to what is at the beginning of Beyond.

[mom23]

I'd second the recommendation to look at LHFHG instead. In addition to the reasons Tidbits of Learning already mentioned, a big difference I noticed between Little Hearts and Beyond was the way Beyond requires an already-developed attention span, whereas LHFHG trains that. When you mentioned this in your 4.5 yo, that's a huge reason to look at LHFHG, I think! The shorter readings, the pictures that engage the child, and the movement activities built in to the program are all great for beginning to train a child to sit and listen, but still offering them time to get the wiggles out. When we began HOD, my ds was 6 yo, in 1st grade and a couple of months in Beyond left us both tired and discouraged...I dropped him back to LHFHG and he really began to thrive! It was just what he needed, and he sailed through Beyond as a 2nd grader.

I know, it does look simple, doesn't it? I once had a friend look at my curriculcum, and her question was, "So...What do they DO?" (Haha-she was used to a curriculum that required lots and lots of worksheets.) In the younger guides with HOD, my answer was that there is more there than meets the eye. Yes, it makes learning simple and fun, but they are learning! Now that I've used the program for 4 years and we're using CTC this year and looking ahead to the next guides, my answer also points people to the fact that these get very deep and involved soon enough. There is no reason to push your younger children too fast, they will be plenty prepared to handle the rigors of the later guides when they get there...but you definitely don't want them to get there before they are ready for them either developmentally, or academically.

One thing you may wish to do is consider adding in some of the requirements from Beyond to the LHFHG guide for your older student. For example, begin to have them copy down their memory verse for the week, or copy some of their rhymes. That will leave them ready for the copywork when they get there. Also, I would encourage you to go through the Emerging Readers, and that's often a great time to begin the spelling lists found in the appendix of the Beyond manual. Plus, the math activities found in the Beyond manual are so very helpful for Singapore Math 1. Lots of people buy the LHFHG program, and then the manual only for Beyond so that they have access to those activities. (Hopefully my information here is correct, please verify it with HOD directly, but I believe I read somewhere that if you buy the manual for Beyond this year, they would give you the "package discount" when ordering the rest of the books for it next year!) In essence, you could do the Left side of the plans in LHFHG and the Right side of the plans in Beyond for your older student; while your younger student does LHFHG as written. You'd only have to do this for a couple of years because once you get to Bigger there are extensions written in there for an older student to do along with a younger sibling in the guide.

[bethelmommy]

I also agree with the other posters about combining in LHFHG. That is exactly what we did starting when my kids were 4.5 and almost 6 and it has worked out great. Last year we did LHFHG with the younger doing the guide exactly as is. The older did math, spelling and the Emerging Readers from Beyond. Yes, some activities were easy, but I have learned that trying to make every subject challenging all the time really burns out my kiddos. HOD is so great in providing that balance. Also, every activity (easy or not) has a purpose behind it and so many skills are developed through the course of the guide. I was personally thrilled every time my kids thought they were just having fun and I could recognize the skill building occurring through the scheduled activity. And even though some things in LHFHG were on the easy side, especially at the end when they were ready to move up to Beyond, the kids were still challenged when transitioning to the new guide. They are now 6 and 7.5 and we are 7 units into Beyond. Between spelling, math, and copy work, they definitely get their handwriting workout and it is taking them some time to adjust. They are growing nicely in their skills but certainly would not have been ready to start any earlier. This year my youngest is doing the Beyond guide as is with emerging readers and my oldest is doing math from the Bigger guide, spelling list 2, the grammar at a faster pace, and Drawn into the Heart of Reading.

Regarding the Emerging Readers, they start at a solid 2nd grade reading level. We went right into them after finishing The Reading Lesson (which takes the student to a 2nd grade reading level) and have had good results.

[Tooactiveboys]

Thank you to everyone! LHFHG seems to be the way to go! With the beyond for math and maybe more. I really appreciate the inside glimpse into what goes on throughout the year, that really helps me see things better. I do have a few questions about story time... They r just now formulating in my head. We r about ready to run out the door to church. So check back on me when u get a chance

[Tooactiveboys]

Just wanted to let you know that I took the plunge and ordered LHFHG Looking forward to delivery next week

[Nealewill]

So glad to hear that! I think you will truly be happy with your choice!