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I know, I know! Here I am again...with a question about guides you haven't even written yet. I am just wondering how long you plan to use Rod & Staff...does it go all the way to level 8 (8th grade)? Will you be switching to something else in future guides...and do you know what it would be?

We like Rod & Staff...but reading another post about R&S made me wonder what your thoughts are on this. Thanks for putting up with me.

inHisTiming,

You are always on the same wave-length with my researching brain, it would seem! We have just been going through this very area extensively the past month and pondering our future recommendations through grade 8.

At this point, we are quite sure that we will be recommending Rod and Staff English throughout our guides. Rod and Staff English texts actually go through grades 9-10 at this point. However, grades 9-10 are almost entirely based on giving writing instruction and are VERY technical. English 7-8 are about applying grammar to writing, and are also more like what a high school level grammar and writing text would be.

So, with that being said, our plan is to recommend that families teach through Rod and Staff English 6 by the time their child is finished with grade 8. With our new ancients guide, we plan to recommend for one level of grammar (your choice of either Rod and Staff English 4 or 5) to be spread out over 2 years by doing 2 lessons a week. After spreading either Level 4 or 5 out over 2 years, the child would do the remaining levels of Rod and Staff English at full-speed (4 days a week) to complete Rod and Staff 6 by the end of grade 8.

The reason for suggesting that one level of Rod and Staff English be stretched out over 2 years during grades 4-5 OR during grades 5-6 is that it will give the child time to mature into the higher-level thinking skills required to do the upped level of diagramming and writing assignments taught in Rod and Staff 6. It will also give parents a lightened grammar instruction schedule for a couple of years to prevent burn-out in teaching grammar year after year, along with matching the more CM-style guidelines for teaching grammar more fully in the middle school years.

Of course, those families who wish to follow a VERY rigorous grammar instruction schedule can easily teach beyond Rod and Staff 6, teaching a level a year. We will include a schedule for Rod and Staff English in the Appendix of our new guides that can be followed either at half-speed or at full-speed, depending on the number of lessons done each week. However, we will only schedule through Rod and Staff 6 by grade 8.

We will be including written narration practice, beginning outlining skills, and creative writing practice within our guides in addition to Rod and Staff English (in order to make sure that writing requirements are covered in other ways beyond what is included in Rod and Staff English). So, for those families who choose to use an English program other than Rod and Staff, they will still be able to use our writing recommendations as well.

While Rod and Staff does take some time to present and is quite rigorous, we are pleasantly surprised with the results it is having on our boys. We have tried many of the other big name English grammar options out there (FLL, Bob Jones, ABeka, Easy Grammar, and just plain old fun jingles/stories/rhymes, etc.) and have found little retention and more time involved with reteaching than if we'd just presented it ourselves from the beginning. We've decided that English instruction and writing instruction are going to take time to present and are worthy of our time. No other mode of communication has more impact of how others perceive us then the way we express ourselves does (both in speaking and in writing). We desire for our kiddos to be well prepared for both. We are also very pleased with the Biblical content and focus of Rod and Staff English, as the ultimate goal in speaking and writing is to glorify our Father in heaven.

Blessings,
Carrie

Wow, thanks! I didn't expect such an elaborate answer...but that helps a lot. I've just been pondering myself today how things will look in our home next year with the new baby, and in future years as the kids get older and more independent. It's good to know that I am on track with my oldest to complete the English as you suggest in your guides...but to also have the option to speed it up if we desire. I appreciate your willingness to share your thoughts with me.

inHistiming,

You're welcome! You just got me at a time when I am knee-deep in this very subject. Rod and Staff English is EXTREMELY advanced scope and sequence-wise. The other evening I was visiting with my older sister (who was a high school grammar/lit. teacher). She has homeschooled all 7 of her children, with her oldest 3 now attending public high school, while she continues homeschooling the younger 4. She was sharing that Grammar is not even a required subject at the high school level right now (in Texas where she lives). It is the same in South Dakota (where I live)!

The level of grammar instruction presented in Rod and Staff 6 is equal to what used to be a typical freshman English/grammar scope and sequence. Now, not even that much is required in the public schools in high school. So, we feel that the recommendation for 8th graders to make it through Rod and Staff 6 prior to high school, goes far beyond what is being required.

Blessings,
Carrie

Carrie,

So, if I understand you correctly, if my fifth graders are currently using R&S 5, I can take two years to finish that and then take two more years to finish R&S 6?

In His love,
RuthAnn

I have a nine year old doing Bigger with R&S 3. Do you suggest spreading that out?

I think the idea was to use whatever level grammar you are in when you get to the ancients guide (that's the one that will come out next summer...right after Preparing...)for 2 years. So, my son will be to level 6 when we get to that guide...and we will use it for his 7th and 8th grade years if we decide to use it over 2 years. He is doing Bigger with extensions along with my 8 yo dd. My dd will use level 4 over 2 years, as that's the level she will be in when we get to the ancients guide that is after Preparing... Does that make sense?

Yes, inHistiming did a great job of answering your questions. We would recommend that English 2 and 3 be done at full-speed. Then, once you get to either Level 4 or 5, you could spread it out over 2 years with the goal being to get through Level 6 by the end of grade 8.

If you are of a more classical philosophy of homeschooling and wish to follow the Well-Trained Mind suggestions, you would instead keep going at the pace of one level of Rod and Staff per year. That recommendation would be different than ours. If you desire to follow a more Charlotte-Mason style grammar schedule, you could use Simply Grammar several times during the middle school years or use an All-in-One English course in the upper grades instead. However, you would need to add on an additional writing component to cover the writing skills covered through Rod and Staff.

RuthAnn, our recommendation would be that in your situation you could spread Level 5 out over 2 years and Level 6 out over 2 years, completing Level 6 by the end of grade 8. We feel this is a mangaeable suggestion with a very strong, solid emphasis on grammar and writing.

Blessings,
Carrie

Thanks Carrie and inhistiming.

I really like R&S and having two years to do it helps me a lot. I am trying to get a handle on dictation, copywork, written narration, and other CM style learning that is very new to me.
I also appreciate that R&S has writing built in. That is so nice! No searching for the perfect writing program. Everything is all right there.

Thanks again for your input. It's a great encouragement to know I have somewhere to go with questions and ponderings. You are all a blessing to me.

In His love,
RuthAnn

Wow! This was a helpful thread. It made me understand R&S in a different way. I have never heard it broken down this way. I am using R&S differently than we were and now I see that actually I was moving too fast in it for my kids and I think that may have been a problem for us. They could do it but were not retaining it. I think I understand now why. This was very helpful. It also helped me to see what parts of it we will make sure we use for sure as well. Thanks for taking the time to give the details!